What is necessary to land a IB/MC gig?

Question

After reading this thread (BW of course) I am almost surely out of the race

Is this extreme or the norm. It is weird because Rice has at least 2-3 hires from Mckinsey every year sometimes 5+. So I am assuming these are not all pre-reqs: We're getting to the stage where most people have a good idea where they are heading and with the application process behind us, it's time to start planning for the next big thing: landing an internship. It seems like 80% of the people around here are all hoping to land PE/VC/HF jobs, but the reality is that a small percentage will end up with those jobs. I feel like I know lots about what it takes to get a job at an HF, but I'd like to find out about what it takes to be competitive for more "traditional" MBA type positions in IB, MC, Marketing & General Management. I've heard various things that look great on your MBA resume, and I'm hoping to get opinions on which of the following things help the most for various types of jobs. 1. GMAT score over 750 2. Brand Name Undergrad 3. Brand Name Grad/Professional degree 4. Name Brand work experience in a related field 5. Name Brand work experience in an unrelated field 6. Entrepreneurial experience 7. International experience 8. GPA over 3.8 from a competitive school 9. Named merit scholarships / full-tuition merit scholarships 10. MBA club participant/officer 11. MBA extracurricular prize winner (like a business plan competition or something) I'm sure there are lots of other factors I haven't thought of. So, I've heard that 750+ on the GMAT helps a lot if you're looking into MC or IB; that a a full-tuition merit scholarship can put someone on equal footing with the general population at a slightly higher ranked school; and lots of other rumors. Any thoughts on which of these factors are really most useful when looking for a competitive MBA job/internship?

naturallight · Answer

Please do share. Do you work for a HF now?

3underscore · Answer

All of these points are just things on a cv that might get you an interview. None of them are what would get you recruited.

squali83 · Answer

I am sorry, I copied that from a BW forum, so I was not the original author. However, I was looking for input on what out of that list is most important, in order to land a MC gig out of school. :oops:

dukes · Answer

Apparently, there's a lot of networking and schmoozing that goes on before interview invitations are sent out. Especially at schools outside the top 3 or 5 you have to work on making an impression during info sessions, dinners, etc. At a limited number of schools, companies like McK will interview anyone who's interested (and at some schools they'll even harass you into interviewing if you're not interested) but thats not the norm. Anyway, decisions are not just based on you resume, but also based on how you come across in social interactions prior to the interview process. Also, remember that there are top notch firms besides M/B/B who offer similar comp and experiences.

squali83 · Answer

What other "top notch firms" would you say other than M/B/BCG?

naturallight · Answer

ah, I see now, squali83.

Yeah, if you want an inside scoop on the IB recruiting process, you should read this Wharton's girl blog (https://futurembagirl.blogspot.com) around Fall of 2004.

Some nuggets:

- She talks about spending 20 - 35 hours a week on the pre interview process (informal meet & greets, researching firms, etc). The idea is to meet enough people to get on the on-campus Interview Lists.

- She says that if you miss an informal meet & greet for a particular firm, you basically won't get an interview invite from that firm.

- I think she got on 6 lists, but wasn't able to land a summer internship. Also, after on-campus recruiting was done, it was very hard to find work--she had to do a lot more on her own and got a lot less help from the career services office.

All in all, it sounds brutal. No IB for me.

rhyme · Answer

Read it to the end though, there is a happy ending eventually.

rhyme · Answer

Not all "top notch", but all worthy of consideration: - McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/aboutus/careers/ - Bain: https://www.bain.com/bainweb/join_bain/j ... erview.asp - BCG: https://www.bcg.com/careers/careers_splash.html - BAH: https://www.boozallen.com/careers - ADL: https://www.adlittle.com/careers/ - Monitor: https://www.monitor.com/cgi-bin/iowa/careers - Accenture: https://careers3.accenture.com/careers/g ... orkinghere - LEK: https://www.lek.com/careers/index.cfm - Mercer MC: https://www.mercermc.com/defaultFlash.asp?section=Join - Marakon: https://www.marakon.com/careers.html - ZS Asscociates: https://www.zsassociates.com/content.asp?tid=3 - Deloitte: https://www.deloitte.com/dtt/section_nod ... 51,00.html - IBM Business Consulting: https://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/gbs/ ... l?nav=left - Bearingpoint: https://www.bearingpoint.com/ - Diamond Management & Technology: https://www.diamondconsultants.com/Publi ... e/careers/ - Capgemini: https://www.capgemini.com/careers/ - PRTM: https://www.prtm.com/mainsection.aspx?id ... gtype=1033 - Hewitt HR: https://www.hewittassociates.com/Intl/NA ... rkingHere/ - Roland Berger: https://www.rolandberger.com/careers_index.html - Parthenon: https://www.parthenon.com/OurPeople/CareersAtParthenon/ - Katzenbach: https://www.katzenbach.com/Careers/tabid/56/Default.aspx - Huron Consulting Group: https://www.huronconsultinggroup.com/

squali83 · Answer

Thanks, looking at these at work today since it is slow. Rhyme, since you are in the industry (I believe so at least) do you know any niche firms that specialize in the Hospitality/Restaurant industries?

pelihu · Answer

I agree that nothing on the list will ultimately land you a job at a really competitive company, but based on the wealth of messages I've looked at over the past months (yikes almost a year!), I think that many of those factors can be important in landing an interview. I have heard from friends (recent grads from top schools) that for many jobs, once get an interview you can land the job by nailing the interview; but it will be easier to get an interview if you have some of the things on the list.

I would say that a brand name MBA is probably the most important thing on that list - and it's what we've all been fighting for for many months now. For IB/MC positions, I have heard that 750+ GMAT might be the next most important thing, with a few friends telling me that that will almost guarantee an interview (combined with a brand name MBA of course). Name brand work experience is probably a big help as well - especially if the company is known to be very difficult to get into. I think merit scholarships are a good way to show you are a top candidate from your school - especially if your schools doesn't disclose grades.

On the other hand, I think that mba club participation is not a huge deal (at least on the resume) because it seems like everyone has it; I've also seen MBA clubs where every officer other than the president is a VP - social or finance or whatever - and is obviously just a way to pump up the resume. I don't really know how much undergrad school & GPA matter; I guess it depends on how long people have been out of school and what they have accomplished in the interim.

Regarding the Wharton girl's blog, I have heard that recruiting demands are particularly pronounced there. In fact, I read a recent article where Wharton was limiting recruiters to 3 visits per year - it was just getting too crazy for students with all the banks visiting every other week (a dozen times a year). I have heard that the situation may be different at other schools. I've met people from Michigan, Darden & Duke who have secured top IB & MC jobs after schmoozing with a firm just once or twice on campus.

c00624 · Answer

750 GMAT? That just seems a little high to me. Especially since companies don't have access to how many times people have taken it. I'd rather have somebody that made a 700 the first time than somebody that scored a 650 and brought it up to 750. It just doesn't seem like the best way to filter candidates. I guess they have to do it somehow though.

dukes · Answer

Its not the be-all and end-all. It just helps you land an interview. After that, its all about the case and making them believe that you'd be a good fit.

pelihu · Answer

The problem with 700 is that a whole bunch of people at the top schools have 700+ GMAT scores, so if a top recruiter comes on campus with the intention of interviewing 30 people or something, a 700 score isn't going to help them much. On the other hand, most of the top schools have 750-760 as the upper limits of their 80% range - if they look at 750+, they are narrowing it down to the top 10-15% at the school. I agree with Dukes that it's probably just one factor that can help you land an interview. You're not dead meat if you don't have it, but it helps if you do.

I have heard the following from a current student at an elite. The standard is typically to include your GMAT score if it is 700+; recruiters will assume that you scored below 700 if you don't put it on your resume (sentiment varies by school I'm sure). People who score 750+ are happy with this trend. People with 700-730s aren't too happy about it because they know their scores are more or less average, but include them anyways because they don't want recruiters to assume they scored below 700.

I go back to my prior post that MBA brand is probably the most important thing. If you're at Harvard, you probably don't need to worry about any of the other stuff. As you move down the rankings, additional factors can help you get interviews if the school name alone isn't enough.

squali83 · Answer

So is this 750 relative. For example, say that a MC firm comes to my campus to recruit, but the average of my class is only 640-650 and I have a 690, will this set me apart from the rest of them and help me obtain an interview. Or do they still hold the same ranges for scores at all campuses. I was considering taking the GMAT again, as I have only taken it once and got a 690 I feel I could probably obtain a 740/750 the next time. However, following your logic above about standing out, I really should not have to re-take it. I obviously would love to not have to re-take it but, I will most certainly do that if I need to.

EconGirl · Answer

IMHO it is not worth spending time on retaking GMATS. You are much better off using that time to learn more about the industry thorough research, informational interviews, etc. Spend a lot of time on your resume, MC resumes are different and it is worh learing how to present yourself. Do join consulting clubs, it is a way to show the companies that you are passionate about consulting especially if you are a career switcher. Volunteer in community consulting programs that your school may have. Get to know the companies of interest and understand the differences between each. These things will help you a whole lot more than raising that score. oh, and for schools with GND policies, companies will take your undergrad. transcript to judge your academic abilities anyway, but from talking to students most companies dont ask for grades nor for GMATs.

naturallight · Answer

Wow, that's surprising to me. I guess it seems a little ostentatious. Like telling someone how much you make. But if that's the standard...

pelihu · Answer

If you look through some of the resume books that can be found around the internet, I think it's a pretty standard practice - probably less so at the very top schools because they don't need the extra boost but common at most elites on down.

Squali - I would probably think about it this way. Recruiters know as well as students which schools are harder or easier to get into - and you'll be competing for jobs with people from all around. So, as I see it, if you're at a lower ranked school, a really high GMAT can help put you in competition with folks at higher ranked schools. I don't believe schools have hiring quotas at any schools, so I don't believe you are only competing with others from your own school. If you're at Stanford, they already know you've run the gauntlet to get in; if you're at a lower ranked school, some additional evidence can help.

I don't have any hard evidence on this, but I think it makes sense given the recruiting needs of big national firms.

lepium · Answer

I heard the same of a Michigan guy who landed a full time S&T gig and had a friend over at Columbia who struggled to get a summer job. He said that since Columbia is in NYC, firms expect you to show up on "informal visits" at least 20 or 30 times before interviewing begins, while at Michigan, just joining the quarterly NYC trek was deemed acceptable. The Columbia guy was a career changer (so was the Michigan guy) so another factor that might have played against him was "competing" against all the other IBers at Columbia.

L.

eazyb81 · Answer

Have heard the same from friends that went to Columbia and NYU. This was one of the main factors why I didn't apply to NYU (the other being the COL in NY).

What is necessary to land a IB/MC gig?

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