Hey everyone, I finally took my GMAT this morning and scored a 780. I was looking for 750 or higher, so suffice to say I've hit my goal. I'm at work right now but I'll write a full debrief either later today or sometime over the weekend. Also wanted to thanks everyone here at GMATClub for answering questions on the forums and especially for the GMATClub tests -- I'll provide details of why the tests were so helpful in my debrief. Here's my debrief: I was hoping to get a 750 or higher and ended up with a 780. Here's a summary of my study/practice strategy and my experience. Classes and Practice Tests I took Manhattan GMAT's online course over the fall, from September til December (9 courses). Overall, I think it was pretty good. MGMAT's strenghts are Number Properties, Word Translations, and Sentence Correction. I didn't like their RC and CR methods -- I'll explain my reasoning behind this later in the post. The MGMAT tests are probably the closest to the real thing (compared to Princeton, Kaplan, etc). I think the verbal on the practice tests is too difficult and the quant difficulty is about the same...except MGMAT emphasizes probability and combinatorics too much on their tests. The real GMAT puts emphasis on number properties, geometry, and good old algebra. For the last 3 weeks I used GMATClub's tests ( https://gmatclub.com/wiki/Tests ). The importance of these tests was that they taught me to PAY ATTENTION. For example, "if n is a positive integer..." --- DON'T TRY n=0 or n=-1/2 when trying to solve the problem! PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS OF THE GIVEN INFORMATION!!! This is where the GMAT catches a lot of people, that's why I double and triple checked everything. Practice test scores: GMATPrep1: 700 (Q46, V40) MGMAT1: 640 MGMAT2: 660 MGMAT3: 730 GMATPrep1 retake: 720 (Q49, V40) GMATPrep2: 720 (Q49, V40) GMATPrep1 re-retake: 770 (Q49, V47) GMATPrep2 retake: 760 (Q50, V45) GMATPrep2 re-retake: 780 (Q50, V47) Real GMAT: 780 (Q50, V47) As you can see, I took each GMATPrep 3 times. Some people only take each test once for practice. I think this is a mistake. The GMATPrep database is pretty big and it's a CAT -- e.g. I didn't see any questions in common between the first take and second. I saw some common questions between the 2nd and 3rd take, but it's still AWESOME practice. The real GMAT has the exact same interface, so there's an extra level of comfort when you've seen the GMATPrep more than a couple times. Quant As an engineer by profession, I've always been strong in and had an affinity for math. That being said, I did need help with number properties and Manhattan GMAT was a great help there. Geometry and algebra are my strengths. One aspect of quant that I believe is overblown is combinatorics. These are pretty rare, and I only saw one on my exam. It wasn't even that hard, I worked it out on paper and didn't use any of the factorial formulas. There was also some probability but it was a medium level question earlier in the test. Verbal I always knew that verbal would give me the hardest time. The biggest help for me in this area was Manhattan GMAT's Sentence Correction guide . There is a reason this book is called the "Bible of SC." This is where I learned the real intricacies of the English language such as comparisons, modifiers, pronoun placement, and the like. I read through this book twice during my prep time and I think it was a huge help. As for the RC and CR, MGMAT encourages taking notes for both. I ended up taking notes only for LONG RC passages and none for the CR. MGMAT's CR passes in their books and practice tests are wayyyy too long compared to real GMAT passages. The short passages on the real test are easy to follow, so I didn't need notes there. The Critical Reasoning book was helpful in that it tackles different CR questions that can show up on the GMAT -- i.e. "find the assumption", "strengthen the argument", etc. While the idea is right here, again, their passages are way too complex compared to real GMAT passages. Exam Day I woke up at 6:30 am for my 8am test. Took a quick shower, ate breakfast, and headed out to Pearson Vue. I put everything in my locker, had my picture taken, was fingerprinted, and sat down at my computer by 8am. This place had more security measures than a maximum security prison! The AWA went fairly smoothly. The second essay gave me some trouble as I couldn't think of 3 solid examples to back up my opinion of the author's statement. I finished the 2nd essay with about 2 minutes to go. I took advantage of my 10 minute break for 5 minutes. I hit the water fountain and ate my Kudos bar for energy. I was very confident in the quant section. I think I got the first 7 or 8 right and then ran into some tough geometry, number property, and algebra questions (including mixtures). From there it just got tougher and tougher. The problem here is that I didn't know which questions counted and which ones were experimental (I've heard ~10 are experimental). I may have spent too much time on some of the experimental, as I finished quant with about 20 second left. The last question was of medium difficulty so I think I got #35/36 wrong. I also remember some hard DS questions that I couldn't figure out -- these turn out to be A,B, or D more often than C or E. So I think I made some good educated guesses. Took another break, drank my overpriced Starbucks Frappucino in a bottle for caffeine. Verbal was easier than I thought it would be. Thanks to my expertise (haha) in SC, I averaged under a minute for SC questions. Good thing, because I took forever on the RC passages. I took a few notes on RC, nothing on CR. I do remember drawing a graph for one CR to help me explain what was happening -- The GMAT loves to take simple info and turn it in to rocket science. I finished the verbal with about 3 minutes left. I verified my information and clicked that I wanted to see my score. I was expecting a score in the 730-750 range and was pleasantly surprised when a 780 popped up. I raised my hand, the procter came over and said it was only the 2nd 780 she had ever seen. Makes me wonder how rare this really is. Final Tips -Study quant basics to death. Don't practice difficult combinatorics and probability questions unless you are 100% confident in your basic quant abilities. Things like number properties (even/odd, prime factors) and geometry (inscribed triangles, areas, perimeter) are way more common than combs/perms. -Don't take too much time. Don't be afraid to guess when the quant question is beyond your abilities. This is probably one area where I hurt myself, as I forgot some experimental questions are thrown in and spent way to much time on some questions. This probably hurt me later on in the test as I was rushing towards the end. -Bring food. This is important. The GMAT is a 4-hour test and you will need the energy. Take your breaks and get some water. -For verbal, learn SC. It's the only thing that has somewhat of a formulaic approach. Use the MGMAT SC guide or something else to help you learn the intricacies of the language. CR includes some logic, RC requires good concentration and the ability to read fairly quickly. So practice, practice, practice all three. -Finally, take each GMATPrep test at least twice, preferably 3 times. This will help you get comfortable with the format of the exam, and more importantly, will get you some practice with actual GMAT level questions. Just uninstall and reinstall the software after you've taken both tests. Make sure to go back and study the problems you get wrong so you can learn from your mistakes.

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780 (Q50, V47)

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spriya

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25 Jul 2008, 20:27

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congratulations :-D

All the best

j8liu

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30 Jul 2008, 06:48

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Thanks very much for the tip!

gmatdelight

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01 Sep 2008, 00:08

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Congrats.

How did you move to 45+ verbal zone from 40 ?

Thanks,

EE

diar48

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04 Sep 2008, 18:35

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awesome score!

shivf1

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07 Sep 2008, 19:53

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Thanks a lot your post was very helpful!!

ankush83gupta

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I have read a lot about GMAT prep being the best option to approximate your score on the real thing. However, there are only 2 GMAT prep tests. I sincerely feel that the Re-takes give you a false picture of your ability.

Just want to know whether the Manhattan tests are worth taking.

1. Are the questions tougher/easier/similar than/to the real thing, especially for verbal.
2. Do the tests put you under pressure with timing?
3. What is the comparison of scores between MGMAT and the real thing?
4. How do I get the test? Are they available on CDs?

sonibubu

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29 Sep 2008, 13:02

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gmatdelight

Congrats.

How did you move to 45+ verbal zone from 40 ?

Thanks,

EE

EE,
After doing tons of GMATprep and OG11 problems and reading the MGMAT SC guide, it just seemed to be easier to do the 2-3, 1-2-2 eliminations and finalize the answer quicker. I think it just came from experience doing more and more problems.

sonibubu

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29 Sep 2008, 13:06

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ankush83gupta

1. Are the questions tougher/easier/similar than/to the real thing, especially for verbal.
2. Do the tests put you under pressure with timing?
3. What is the comparison of scores between MGMAT and the real thing?
4. How do I get the test? Are they available on CDs?

1. The questions seemed similar to me compared to the real thing. If you learn the fundamentals and practice them (and don't harp on exotic things like Comb/Perm, advanced probability) then you will be OK.
2. Yes, there is always some sort of pressure since the test is timed. If you're comfortable with the GMATprep software you will be comfortable during the test. At times I felt like I was at home taking just another GMATprep (when I was really in the zone

)
3. MGMAT tests are harder and score tougher. I can't really give you a # of points to add to your MGMAT score because I think MGMAT's scoring algorithm is slightly off of GMAC's algorithm.
4. GMATprep can be downloaded directly from GMAC's website.

whocanitbenow

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01 Oct 2008, 03:13

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chineseburned

Congrats and thanks for the debrief! Very insightful....

I started re-taking the GMATPrep tests and the problem with the Verbal is that three out of the four RC passages get repeated and so I get about 10 repeats right there. Did you not experience that in your re-takes?

You mentioned the MGMAT SC, but did you ever try the 1000 SC floating around on this board? I wonder how those two compare.

Does anyone know with a Q of 51, what is the minium V score to guarantee an overall of 780?

44 in V

srce: https://www.800score.com/score2.php

paeagain

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02 Oct 2008, 00:33

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to do the 2-3, 1-2-2 eliminations and finalize the answer quicker.

Please Explain 2-3, 1-2-2 which u mentioned ...

Don't get it...

is it new strategy?

Thanks mate.

sonibubu

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03 Oct 2008, 20:18

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paeagain

to do the 2-3, 1-2-2 eliminations and finalize the answer quicker.

Please Explain 2-3, 1-2-2 which u mentioned ...

Don't get it...

is it new strategy?

Thanks mate.

It's used for SC. Basically, separate the problems into groups and then eliminate the whole group rather than 1 choice at a time. I'll try an example (which I'm not too good at, but you will get the idea)...

Mike, having gone to the store earlier, ...

A-Mike, having gone to the store earlier...
B-Mike, having gone to the store earlier...
C-Mike, who had earlier gone to the store...
D-Mike, having gone to the store earlier...
E-Mike, who earlier had gone to the store...

Let's say you decide that "having gone to the store..." is too awkward -- it could be, or could not be -- depends on the rest of the sentence. You will notice that this will allow you to eliminate A, B, and D. On GMAT problems, using process of elimination doesn't just eliminate 1 choice, but usually rather 2 or 3 at a time. Most problems are like the one above, 2-3 format, but some tough ones are 1-2-2 so that even if you eliminate the 1, you still have to go through the process again and eliminate again (and get down to 2 final choices).

If you find a flaw, basically you can apply it to eliminate more than 1 option usually.

pm4553

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You're right.

You'll notice this especially when you have words like "having, being, which" (IMO). If you can identify the trend, it becomes simpler to eliminate.

Arranging the answer choices in SC, is a good strategy.

However, its easier said than done. You're in the stress + is-this-correct mode + fatigue mode, that you tend to miss such observations, it happens to me ALL the time.

HBSBound

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13 Nov 2008, 09:16

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Awesome score and great debrief. Excellent post overall. Best of luck!

carcarcar

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14 Nov 2008, 05:47

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Amazing Score~ Congrats!!

surbab

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09 Dec 2008, 12:11

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Amazing job done....

Congratulations.....

Thank you for the inspiring debrief....!!!

amrita123

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26 Dec 2008, 04:14

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Great man!...780/800 seems to be a dream!
My dream destination is ISB!..I am wrking n also a married female...Need ur guidance to fetch me a gud score!

vivian16

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28 Dec 2008, 07:33

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Great job!!! I'm waiting for you to share details. Please tell us ur background, and how your start is, and the destination (actually it's verr great ^_^)

curtstevens

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14 Jan 2009, 16:53

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Congratulations on your excellent score!

sonibubu

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19 Jan 2009, 07:59

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vivian16

Great job!!! I'm waiting for you to share details. Please tell us ur background, and how your start is, and the destination (actually it's verr great ^_^)

My background and studying tactics are all covered in the first post.

moizkhan

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20 Jan 2009, 18:45

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hi ,,

Congratsss.. it was awesome.

Is this MGMAT SC guide available at gmat...??

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