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# Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4

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Retired Moderator
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 920
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 [#permalink]

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02 Mar 2009, 13:49
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Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team

2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

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Intern
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 27
Schools: Duke, UNC, Emory, Ga Tech, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Wash U, Texas, Rollins
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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02 Mar 2009, 14:03
So you have 10 total spots to be filled. Here I would use the following equation:
Total = Group 1 + Group 2 - Both + Neither

From the question, you are given the Total finishers, the number in group 1 (Italians) and number group 2(Telefonica Team)

Statement 1:
2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent the Telefonica team.
This means 2 Italians did represent the telefonica team
So... from our equation from before
10 = 4 + 8 -2 + Neither
This is NOT Sufficient because we don't know how many people were members of the Telefonica Team and not Italians

Statement 2:
Tells us that each of the top ten finishers was either an Italian or represented Telefonica or both. So we know there is no "neither" part to this equation. However we don't know how many Italians represented the Telefonica team.

Together is Sufficient
The answer is C.
Manager
Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 58
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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02 Mar 2009, 14:39
I got this table from A. Shouldnt the answer be A.
I NI Total
T 2 6 8

NT 2 0 2

Total 4 6 10
Senior Manager
Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 482
Schools: Fuqua
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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03 Mar 2009, 12:27
IMO D.

It is given that 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team from a total of 10.

From stmt 1 = It is given that 2of the Italians were not Telefonica. If you draw a simple VENN Diagram, we know that

ONLY Italians = 2
Italians and Telefonica = 2
ONLY Telefonica = 6.

So sufficient.

From stmt2, it is given that each person is either Italian / represented Telefonica or both.

Applying the Union forumala, P(IUT) = P(I) + P(T) - P(I and T) ==> Solving it we get P(I and B) as 2. Drawing Simple Venn Diagram, we should be able to know ONLY Telefonica = 6. . So sufficient.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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Schools: Booth (Admit R1), Sloan (Ding R1), Tuck (R1)
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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04 Mar 2009, 14:51
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bigfernhead wrote:
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team

2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

IMHO D

Please see attached file for solution
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Senior Manager
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 393
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2009, 01:29
xyz21 wrote:
bigfernhead wrote:
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team

2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

IMHO D

Please see attached file for solution

Awesome explanation........xyz21
Manager
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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Schools: Booth (Admit R1), Sloan (Ding R1), Tuck (R1)
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2009, 07:05
gurpreet07 wrote:
xyz21 wrote:
bigfernhead wrote:
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team

2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

IMHO D

Please see attached file for solution

Awesome explanation........xyz21

thanks very much
Retired Moderator
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 920
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2009, 07:32
xyz21 - That's how I got statement 1 to be sufficient.

I don't understand statement 2. What exactly is it saying and how do we translate that into the matrix?
Senior Manager
Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 482
Schools: Fuqua
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2009, 07:58
bigfernhead wrote:
xyz21 - That's how I got statement 1 to be sufficient.

I don't understand statement 2. What exactly is it saying and how do we translate that into the matrix?

Statement 2 is stating that each of the top ten players is either an Italian or represented Telefonica team. Hence there is no player who is neither Italian not represented Telephonica team.

So from xyz21's explanation matrix(4th one), we have a zero for the cell representing the Non Italian and Not Telefonica. But, since Not Italian is 6, it turns out that NOT Italian but Telephonica count will have to be 6.

Hope this explanation is clear.
Retired Moderator
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 920
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2009, 08:16
OMG I'm blind! Thanks.
Manager
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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Schools: Booth (Admit R1), Sloan (Ding R1), Tuck (R1)
Re: DS: Italians [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2009, 08:17
mrsmarthi wrote:
bigfernhead wrote:
xyz21 - That's how I got statement 1 to be sufficient.

I don't understand statement 2. What exactly is it saying and how do we translate that into the matrix?

Statement 2 is stating that each of the top ten players is either an Italian or represented Telefonica team. Hence there is no player who is neither Italian not represented Telephonica team.

So from xyz21's explanation matrix(4th one), we have a zero for the cell representing the Non Italian and Not Telefonica. But, since Not Italian is 6, it turns out that NOT Italian but Telephonica count will have to be 6.

Hope this explanation is clear.

Couldn't have said it better.. thanks mrsmarthi

--== Message from GMAT Club Team ==--

This is not a quality discussion. It has been retired.

If you would like to discuss this question please re-post it in the respective forum. Thank you!

To review the GMAT Club's Forums Posting Guidelines, please follow these links: Quantitative | Verbal Please note - we may remove posts that do not follow our posting guidelines. Thank you.
Re: DS: Italians   [#permalink] 05 Mar 2009, 08:17
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# Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4

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