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By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,

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By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 28 Jan 2018, 22:36
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The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 11th Edition, 2005

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 47
Page: 644

By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.

(A) financial advice and staying
(B) financial advice and by staying
(C) and financial advice, staying
(D) and financial advice, and staying
(E) and financial advice and by staying

I understand why it needs "and" before financial advice.

why do we have to include "by" before staying as the E says?

I thought "by" is understood in D, so chose D for simplicity.

Originally posted by lys8207 on 21 Jan 2010, 07:35.
Last edited by hazelnut on 28 Jan 2018, 22:36, edited 1 time in total.
Edited the question.
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jan 2010, 07:39
lys8207 wrote:
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
a)
b) financial advice and by staying
c) and financial advice, staying
d) and financial advice, and staying
e) and financial advice and by staying

I understand why it needs "and" before financial advice.

why do we have to include "by" before staying as the E says?

I thought "by" is understood in D, so chose D for simplicity.

answer:


To keep the sentence parallel. "by staying" is not part of the list. By providing.....and by staying..That part is parallel.
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jan 2010, 09:34
I agree with lagomez.

This list contains several items, such as mortgages, homeimprovement loans, automobile loans, and financial service. Then there's a sudden switch in sentence meaning, from providing services to "staying within the metropolitan areas". Since the beginning of the sentence started with "By providing", the sensible construct of this sentence would haev to be "by staying".
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jan 2010, 05:14
2
we require and before financial advice as it is the last one in the listed items and that leaves us with c,d and e

by staying in choice E is parallel with by statying

so my choice is E
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Aug 2014, 23:38
1
one possible reason is that the distance between "providing" and "staying" is far , so, we need to repeat "by" to make the sentence clear.

I post this question in many places on the internet,but, no one answer properly
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Aug 2014, 23:49
1
lys8207 wrote:
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
a)
b) financial advice and by staying
c) and financial advice, staying
d) and financial advice, and staying
e) and financial advice and by staying

I understand why it needs "and" before financial advice.

why do we have to include "by" before staying as the E says?

I thought "by" is understood in D, so chose D for simplicity.

answer:


Ans is E....

There are 2 lists here

ACME Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
List 1 by providing services such as

List 2 : Mortgages, Home Improvement Loans.... and Financial advice (Follows structure w,x,y,and z)

and

List 1 Contd: staying within Metropolitan area

List 1 follows structure X and Y...Where X and Y are 2 things done by by the bank...By Providing and By staying... is parallel here..
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Sep 2014, 03:52
Could somebody please tell me that why did we use 'and' before financial advice?
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Sep 2014, 04:36
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ShantnuMathuria wrote:
Could somebody please tell me that why did we use 'and' before financial advice?


My answer is E too (had to burn time to get to E).

The first "and" is to end the list of items. The second "and" is to start a new clause. "By" is need to keep the second clause in parallel with the first.
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Feb 2016, 23:41
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and financial Services -----last one in the list ------> eliminate A,B
by providing..............and by staying............ --------> Parallel
IMO E
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Feb 2016, 06:28
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baaniNitin wrote:
and financial Services -----last one in the list ------> eliminate A,B
by providing..............and by staying............ --------> Parallel
IMO E


What is problem with D? Consider a simpler example:

By eating healthy and sleeping plenty, I improved my health.

Is the preposition by required before the second gerund as well?

To answer this question, let us recollect the Once in twice out rule:

The parallel structure here is X and Y: If we consider the preposition by inside the parallel structure, we must use by two times. In such case by should be used both in X and in Y.

However we could also consider that the preposition by is outside the parallel structure. In such case we would use by only once. It would cover both X and Y.

This ambiguity often occurs with AND structure because we cannot determine where the parallelism starts, whether the preposition is inside or outside. However, for two-part structures such as NOT ONLY.... BUT ALSO, it is easy to determine whether the preposition is outside or inside and such ambiguity does not occur.
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Feb 2016, 14:19
sayantanc2k wrote:
baaniNitin wrote:
and financial Services -----last one in the list ------> eliminate A,B
by providing..............and by staying............ --------> Parallel
IMO E


What is problem with D? Consider a simpler example:

By eating healthy and sleeping plenty, I improved my health.

Is the preposition by required before the second gerund as well?

To answer this question, let us recollect the Once in twice out rule:

The parallel structure here is X and Y: If we consider the preposition by inside the parallel structure, we must use by two times. In such case by should be used both in X and in Y.

However we could also consider that the preposition by is outside the parallel structure. In such case we would use by only once. It would cover both X and Y.

This ambiguity often occurs with AND structure because we cannot determine where the parallelism starts, whether the preposition is inside or outside. However, for two-part structures such as NOT ONLY.... BUT ALSO, it is easy to determine whether the preposition is outside or inside and such ambiguity does not occur.


sayantanc2k - yes you are correct we can take BY as common but it does not sounds good to me in this question
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans and financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.

it looks like a continuation of a list

but if we use by staying then AND is used as a conjunction of two sentence

Correct me if i am wrong :)
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Feb 2016, 01:39
baaniNitin wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
baaniNitin wrote:
and financial Services -----last one in the list ------> eliminate A,B
by providing..............and by staying............ --------> Parallel
IMO E


What is problem with D? Consider a simpler example:

By eating healthy and sleeping plenty, I improved my health.

Is the preposition by required before the second gerund as well?

To answer this question, let us recollect the Once in twice out rule:

The parallel structure here is X and Y: If we consider the preposition by inside the parallel structure, we must use by two times. In such case by should be used both in X and in Y.

However we could also consider that the preposition by is outside the parallel structure. In such case we would use by only once. It would cover both X and Y.

This ambiguity often occurs with AND structure because we cannot determine where the parallelism starts, whether the preposition is inside or outside. However, for two-part structures such as NOT ONLY.... BUT ALSO, it is easy to determine whether the preposition is outside or inside and such ambiguity does not occur.


sayantanc2k - yes you are correct we can take BY as common but it does not sounds good to me in this question
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans and financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.

it looks like a continuation of a list

but if we use by staying then AND is used as a conjunction of two sentence

Correct me if i am wrong :)


Hi baaniNitin,

If there were 2 sentences, your reasoning would definitely be correct:

By providing XXX, Acme bank did YYY, and by staying within ZZZ, Acme bank has become WWW.

The preposition by is required before staying in the above sentence.

However please observe that there are no 2 sentences. By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, and financial advice is not a sentence ! :)

The construction is:

By providing XXX and (by) staying within YYY, Acme Bank has become ZZZ.

The conjunction AND is joining 2 gerunds here.

Thus I would say you may or may not use by before staying . In either case the sentence would be correct for the reason (Once out twice in rule) mentioned in my previous post...... for the same reason that By eating healthy and (by) sleeping plenty, I improved my health is correct either way.

Do you think I have a flaw in my reasoning?
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Feb 2016, 08:04
sayantanc2k wrote:
baaniNitin wrote:
and financial Services -----last one in the list ------> eliminate A,B
by providing..............and by staying............ --------> Parallel
IMO E


What is problem with D? Consider a simpler example:

By eating healthy and sleeping plenty, I improved my health.

Is the preposition by required before the second gerund as well?

To answer this question, let us recollect the Once in twice out rule:

The parallel structure here is X and Y: If we consider the preposition by inside the parallel structure, we must use by two times. In such case by should be used both in X and in Y.

However we could also consider that the preposition by is outside the parallel structure. In such case we would use by only once. It would cover both X and Y.

This ambiguity often occurs with AND structure because we cannot determine where the parallelism starts, whether the preposition is inside or outside. However, for two-part structures such as NOT ONLY.... BUT ALSO, it is easy to determine whether the preposition is outside or inside and such ambiguity does not occur.


this is very good reasoning. we have to be frank and be honest with ourself . we have to admit that we do not understand why D is wrong. og explanation is not full and sometime incorrect (for example, the question "educator are at fault". in some cases, discussion inhere is better than og explanation. that's why we are here.

my thinking

because X and Y are too far from each other, we need to repeat "by" before Y. This is maybe the reason why D is wrong.
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2017, 07:27
Hello Guys,

I have two points about this question:
1- Indeed '''staying'' is too far from the initial ''by''; I agree so, maybe this argument has an effect in terms of communication but not in terms of grammatical correctness.
2- GMAT prefers the most concise expressions, so ''by'' must be eliminated in case both possibilities are right.

Taking a grammatical perspective and GMAT preferences, I think the correct answer is D.

Regards,
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2017, 20:07
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Hi all,
I think (D) can be eliminated since the comma before the second "and" is not required.
We only have two items in the second list : providing and staying.
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jul 2017, 22:10
BY.......W, X, Y and Z and BY .....
This is the parallel structure as per the meaning.

By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
a)
b) financial advice and by staying
c) and financial advice, staying
d) and financial advice, and staying
e) and financial advice and by staying Correct
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 21:59
sleepynut wrote:
Hi all,
I think (D) can be eliminated since the comma before the second "and" is not required.
We only have two items in the second list : providing and staying.



X, and Y will work if X and Y are two independent clause. But "By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice" I think is not an independent clause. This may be the reason that D is wrong and not because BY is missing here. Because BY can be common to both PROVIDING and STAYING. as explained by sayantanc2k
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2017, 03:16
Quote:
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
a) financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas
b) financial advice and by staying
c) and financial advice, staying
d) and financial advice, and staying
e) and financial advice and by staying


Reasoning
Because "by staying within the metropolitan areas" is not comparable to "mortgages" or "home improvement loans", hence we need 2 "and" + 1 "by" to make the sentence parallel.

Correction
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, AND financial advice
AND
by staying within the metropolitan areas,
Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Sep 2017, 18:11
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
a) financial advice and staying
b) financial advice and by staying
c) and financial advice, staying
d) and financial advice, and staying
e) and financial advice and by staying

Kind of tricky. You've got lists on lists!

List 1: MORTGAGES, HOME IMPROVEMENT LOANS, AUTOMOBILE LOANS, AND FINANCIAL ADVICE
-> You need "AND financial advice" b/c "and" shows the CONCLUSION of this list
*****ELIMINATE A & B

List 2: "By providing..." AND "By staying...", Acme Bank...
-> Acme bank PROVIDES (services) and STAYS (within a certain area)
*****ELIMINATE A & C & D

Ans = "E"

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Re: By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans,  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Sep 2017, 07:54
lys8207 wrote:
By providing such services as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans, financial advice and staying within the metropolitan areas, Acme Bank has become one of the most profitable savings banks in the nation.
a)
b) financial advice and by staying
c) and financial advice, staying
d) and financial advice, and staying
e) and financial advice and by staying

I understand why it needs "and" before financial advice.

why do we have to include "by" before staying as the E says?

I thought "by" is understood in D, so chose D for simplicity.


This is a very good question from OG

Split 1


Notice that there is a list of services such as mortgages, home improvement loans, automobile loans and financial advice
Also financial advice is the last item on the list so we need and before and a comma before and .

Split 2


We also need and before staying to maintain parallelism with the verb providing .

Split 3

Now and is used to connect two clauses thus it is an open maker of parallelism and open maker of parallelism should have same or similar word that come before the entities in parallelism .

Now if you do not have by after and then there is ambiguity staying seems to be parallel to the financial services but that is not the case .
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