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LSEguy
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 08:54
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ebonn101
Guys, it's never been a secret about what types of backgrounds the top tier MBA programs recruit. If you went into this application process as a nonprofit guy/gal or a humanities major (like me, in both cases), you have to know that you're at a disadvantage compared to somebody applying with 4-5 years experience at M/B/B, Blackstone, TPG, etc. It doesn't matter that you scored a superb GMAT and have a GPA that's well within the middle 80%, or that you wrote the great American novel in your essays. H/S/W use GMAT and GPA, etc to discriminate and distinguish among candidates who are from like backgrounds, NOT to pick applicants from diverse industries over each other.

If you're an Art History major from UConn whose spent the past 4 years working a non-rockstar job (possibly with an unemployment stint due to economic turmoil), it doesn't matter that you scored a 760 and got a 3.7 UGPA.... you're not getting an interview/admit over a guy/gal from Google or KKR who "only" got a 720 and 3.5 (s/he also majored in Economics at H/Y/P).

H/S/W, like all other programs, worry about the hireability of their students, their class profile (stats-wise), and the ability to develop a class that will interact in a manner that is predictable and desirable to them and the head honchos in their administrations. Do they say they want a diverse class, and that they love "oddball" candidates? Sure. But let's be honest, you're not going to wake up one year and find out that the # of incoming students with management consulting w/e has dropped from 21% to 12% because the adcom "loved the oddball candidates this year." We're not going to simply wake up in a fantasy world and find that this year HBS has 18% of its incoming class from entrepreneurial backgrounds.

This whole process will just be easier and less stressful for you if you recognize that, for most of us, the odds are stacked out of our favor, and the best we can do is just apply and see what happens. If you get invited to interview, then good on you, because you obviously did something to make your application stand out in an otherwise unlikely scenario. Take that opportunity and run with it, and hopefully it pans out into an HBS admit! But it's silly to get down on yourself or waste time trying to pyschoanalyze who has already got an invite and who hasn't, especially on a forum like this, where the sample size is so infinitismally small (this thread is tracking 207 applicants for ALL ROUNDS to HBS, when likely around 4,000 applied R1).
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Wow... i do agree with what you have written. At the end of the day it boils down to " can this applicant get a job from our b-school?". employment statistics and salary nos. do matter. However, having said this, a handful of 'odd ball candidates' will also make it through the process - and this will add 'diversity' to the incoming class. MC/IB/PE/VC remain the favorite and most recognized professions with which the adcom immediately connects and feels a lot more confident about.

Thanks for sharing this thought ebonn101.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 10:42
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It may be true but it also means that there is fierce competition amongst those within the PE / IB backgrounds to differentiate themselves!!!
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kethee
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 14:58
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singhshb
It may be true but it also means that there is fierce competition amongst those within the PE / IB backgrounds to differentiate themselves!!!
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I totally agree, I bet the applicant field is mostly IB / PE types. But if you look at the interview invites, you'll see there's not one from IB. I am IB / PE and Sandy told me I 'wasn't lookin like H' because of my low GPA and mediocre extras (a few officer positions after I got out of IB, but none saving the world).

Additionally, I'd bet finance admits will be the same percentage if not lower in light of all this occupy wall street, 99% hype going on right now.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 15:12
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Man, 3.5 is a low GPA? What was your major, and what kind of school did you go to? Ivy/IvyPlus, top public or other?
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kethee
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 17:11
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hello212
Man, 3.5 is a low GPA? What was your major, and what kind of school did you go to? Ivy/IvyPlus, top public or other?
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It is from what I'm told - I went to a "public ivy," commerce major, concentrations in finance and accounting, minors in econ and east Asian studies. I'm sure it's different for other majors, like engineering from MIT, etc.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 17:55
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kethee
hello212
Man, 3.5 is a low GPA? What was your major, and what kind of school did you go to? Ivy/IvyPlus, top public or other?

It is from what I'm told - I went to a "public ivy," commerce major, concentrations in finance and accounting, minors in econ and east Asian studies. I'm sure it's different for other majors, like engineering from MIT, etc.
Show more

I don't think 3.5 is low, unless you go to a school that is known for grade inflation. That being said, I guess it's all relative to race/gender/what type of PE/etc. Either way, I think at a certain a point, GPA/GMAT is a moot point.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 18:57
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ebonn101
Guys, it's never been a secret about what types of backgrounds the top tier MBA programs recruit. If you went into this application process as a nonprofit guy/gal or a humanities major (like me, in both cases), you have to know that you're at a disadvantage compared to somebody applying with 4-5 years experience at M/B/B, Blackstone, TPG, etc. It doesn't matter that you scored a superb GMAT and have a GPA that's well within the middle 80%, or that you wrote the great American novel in your essays. H/S/W use GMAT and GPA, etc to discriminate and distinguish among candidates who are from like backgrounds, NOT to pick applicants from diverse industries over each other.

If you're an Art History major from UConn whose spent the past 4 years working a non-rockstar job (possibly with an unemployment stint due to economic turmoil), it doesn't matter that you scored a 760 and got a 3.7 UGPA.... you're not getting an interview/admit over a guy/gal from Google or KKR who "only" got a 720 and 3.5 (s/he also majored in Economics at H/Y/P).

H/S/W, like all other programs, worry about the hireability of their students, their class profile (stats-wise), and the ability to develop a class that will interact in a manner that is predictable and desirable to them and the head honchos in their administrations. Do they say they want a diverse class, and that they love "oddball" candidates? Sure. But let's be honest, you're not going to wake up one year and find out that the # of incoming students with management consulting w/e has dropped from 21% to 12% because the adcom "loved the oddball candidates this year." We're not going to simply wake up in a fantasy world and find that this year HBS has 18% of its incoming class from entrepreneurial backgrounds.

This whole process will just be easier and less stressful for you if you recognize that, for most of us, the odds are stacked out of our favor, and the best we can do is just apply and see what happens. If you get invited to interview, then good on you, because you obviously did something to make your application stand out in an otherwise unlikely scenario. Take that opportunity and run with it, and hopefully it pans out into an HBS admit! But it's silly to get down on yourself or waste time trying to pyschoanalyze who has already got an invite and who hasn't, especially on a forum like this, where the sample size is so infinitismally small (this thread is tracking 207 applicants for ALL ROUNDS to HBS, when likely around 4,000 applied R1).
Show more

LOL this is exactly what i said a few pages back and so many people ripped me for it so I took the comment out. You are very right and I very much agree with you. I think that Sandy is right to say that the essays are just the material to support the myth that anyone can get in. I think his statement is true. The same type of background get into HBS no matter what... simply look at the "Real HBS students" from Dee's blog... everyone either worked for consulting or PE or somewhere near that jacuzzi... I seriously doubt that HBS really strives for "diversity"... At the end of the day, HBS is very self selective for guys who come from big consulting, TPB, blackrock, goldman, etc... say what you will people, reap me how much you like and analyze every single one of my sentences for flaws as if they were the GMAT AWA essays... you and I all know that this is true.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 19:55
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fsaq
[
LOL this is exactly what i said a few pages back and so many people ripped me for it so I took the comment out. You are very right and I very much agree with you. I think that Sandy is right to say that the essays are just the material to support the myth that anyone can get in. I think his statement is true. The same type of background get into HBS no matter what... simply look at the "Real HBS students" from Dee's blog... everyone either worked for consulting or PE or somewhere near that jacuzzi... I seriously doubt that HBS really strives for "diversity"... At the end of the day, HBS is very self selective for guys who come from big consulting, TPB, blackrock, goldman, etc... say what you will people, reap me how much you like and analyze every single one of my sentences for flaws as if they were the GMAT AWA essays... you and I all know that this is true.
Show more


dude your totally right. I am one of those who applied, knowing that my social entrepreneurship background/low GMAT is a sure ding (but hey, I guy can dream big right?). If you look at the "Real Students of HBS," it looks like all Mckinsey, Morgan Stanley, Private Equity "traditional" folk who love
"exploring other cultures through traveling".... Looking forward to hearing about the "true oddballs" that get a invite/get into HBS.


Looking forward to seeing how everyone pans out.... In some weird way, I am more excited than nervous to hear back from HBS.....its is like waiting for nightly power ball numbers.....Perhaps bc I know there is like a 1% shot I will get an interview

I did not use Sandy (or anyone for that matter) but love his advice on blogs.

Good luck to you all!
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 20:54
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Just curious, any of you start your last essay with:
I wish you asked me what mattered most to me...
or
I wish you asked me to write a memo to your dean ...
or
I wish you asked me to reflect on a time when I turned down ...
?
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 21:04
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Well, if there is any GC member here who has a "non-traditional" profile and has received an interview invite, could you reply with your profile.

I think we should just wait and see what tomorrow has in store for us. While, it is a fact that most of the HBS class is made up of traditional candidates, it isn't as if it doesn't have non-traditional applicants at all. So there's still hope.

The key thing is to believe in yourself enough; my attitude from the start has been that HBS is pursuing me in this process as much as I am pursuing HBS. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen; it's not the end of the world.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 21:52
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sda
Just curious, any of you start your last essay with:
I wish you asked me what mattered most to me...
or
I wish you asked me to write a memo to your dean ...
or
I wish you asked me to reflect on a time when I turned down ...
?
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I did, I also went ~7 words over on that question because I did! :lol:
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shekmba
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 31 Oct 2011, 21:56
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BigPEGuy
sda
Just curious, any of you start your last essay with:
I wish you asked me what mattered most to me...
or
I wish you asked me to write a memo to your dean ...
or
I wish you asked me to reflect on a time when I turned down ...
?

I did, I also went ~7 words over on that question because I did! :lol:
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The question does not count towards the word count; I had verified this with the admissions office.
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k03
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 01:56
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nycbiker
fsaq
[
Looking forward to hearing about the "true oddballs" that get a invite/get into HBS.
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My background is NGO & software entrepreneurship and I got an invite.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 05:19
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sda
Just curious, any of you start your last essay with:
I wish you asked me what mattered most to me...
or
I wish you asked me to write a memo to your dean ...
or
I wish you asked me to reflect on a time when I turned down ...
?
Show more

I just came up with my own question and used that in place of the prompt.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 05:56
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shekmba
Well, if there is any GC member here who has a "non-traditional" profile and has received an interview invite, could you reply with your profile.

I think we should just wait and see what tomorrow has in store for us. While, it is a fact that most of the HBS class is made up of traditional candidates, it isn't as if it doesn't have non-traditional applicants at all. So there's still hope.

The key thing is to believe in yourself enough; my attitude from the start has been that HBS is pursuing me in this process as much as I am pursuing HBS. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen; it's not the end of the world.
Show more


Not sure if I count as "non-traditional" (Military), but I was invited to interview. I know at least 2 other military types that were.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 06:01
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I'm probably one of the military folks Zarthul mentioned. Non-traditional for sure. Non West Point military, a rarity for HBS in recent years.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 06:04
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jwillivt
I'm probably one of the military folks Zarthul mentioned. Non-traditional for sure. Non West Point military, a rarity for HBS in recent years.
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Actually I wasn't counting you, but I am also non West point, so more power to you.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 06:11
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I think this board places a far too narrow view on what a good HBS candidate is. Every time someone gets an invite, people immediately want to know GMAT, GPA, WE and age. There are probably tens of thousands of consultants who have 3.5+ GPA, 700+ GMAT, and are between 23-28. The same goes for just about any other industry. Hence the reason for essays, recommendations and resume. Dee put it best on a recent blog post, line up 10 people from <insert traditional feeder firm> and she can find more reasons why they're different than the same.

Also, don't forget the latest HBS class profile: https://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/class-statistics/
Assuming "traditional" is considered financial services or consulting, that still leaves 46% of the class that is "non-traditional".
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 06:54
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gpb14
I think this board places a far too narrow view on what a good HBS candidate is. Every time someone gets an invite, people immediately want to know GMAT, GPA, WE and age. There are probably tens of thousands of consultants who have 3.5+ GPA, 700+ GMAT, and are between 23-28. The same goes for just about any other industry. Hence the reason for essays, recommendations and resume. Dee put it best on a recent blog post, line up 10 people from <insert traditional feeder firm> and she can find more reasons why they're different than the same.

Also, don't forget the latest HBS class profile: https://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/class-statistics/
Assuming "traditional" is considered financial services or consulting, that still leaves 46% of the class that is "non-traditional".
Show more
You're echoing what I said. GPA and GMAT and essays are all great. But they're simply to be used as distinguishing factors for candidates who are already predisposed to get in.

Based on those numbers, published by HBS, the only "non-traditional" backgrounds are

Military 5%
Nonprofit 8%
Unspecified 1%
(MAYBE) Healthcare 6%

14-20% of the class is non-traditional or "oddball" depending on how you slice it.

Everything else (consumer products, high-tech, etc.) is a traditional background, hence the large numbers of students from those demographic.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 01 Nov 2011, 07:13
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Anyone from a healthcare background get an interview invite?
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