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14 Dec 2010, 15:07
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It's too bad there's no CEIBS link on GMATCLUB and that I usually read about that school's admissions updates via postings from Indian candidates on a South Asian MBA website! LOL!
I think that a rep from the HKUST admissions office would have contacted me if I was shortlisted for an interview and I don't feel much good would arise from contacting the Admissions Office again. However, it is interesting to note that the CEIBS rep told me that the school had unsuccessfully tried to send me two interview invitations via e-mail the previous week and that both had bounced back, so they called me to invite me to an interview. I assume that HKUST would have done the same. In fact, I even had to open a new e-mail account to receive correspondence from CEIBS. Is anyone participating in the CEIBS online forum with current students, which is today/tomorrow, based on where you're located. I'm registered for it via the CEIBS applicant center but haven't received any further instructions on how to log in.
I'm happy my previous message sparked discussion on CEIBS vs. HKUST vs. other schools in Asia. Here are my thoughts:
Although HKUST is ranked #9 by FT and CEIBS has fallen from #8 (in 2008) to #14 (in 2009) to #22 (in 2010), I think the future is much brighter for CEIBS than for HKUST, although they are both going to rise relative to the competition. For starters, CEIBS just completed its awesome new Beijing campus in Nov. I won't provide a link here but you can go online and view the amazing photos of this facility. HKUST has no Beijing facility (but it does have its second largest alumni group based there)...CEIBS 1, HKUST 0.
In Nov., CEIBS commenced Phase 3 construction to double the size of its Shanghai campus. HKUST is also building a new building; this is a push...CEIBS 2, HKUST 1.
Although HKUST promotes itself as being Asia-focused/China-centric but globally focused, I feel the school doesn't do enough to take advantage of its China location via compulsory langauge training in Chinese for non-Chinese speaking foreign students. In fact, one can attain a China Business focus at HKUST w/o even having to speak any Chinese! Furthermore, the 2 weeks of Putonghua training provided in the pre-term doesn't do much to make a non-Chinese person professionally viable in China. I've met several alums from HKUST who couldn't speak a lick of Chinese and had no interest to even work in Asia. That's fine but I felt they weren't getting the full value of attending school in China. HKUST will organize some low-cost Mandarin classes for interested students but only about 10-15% actually participate in this program. I thus think of HKUST as being "ChinaLite." In contrast, CEIBS requires all foreign students to take Chinese classes during the first year. The pre-term Chinese program for non-Chinese speakers is a full month long. Plus, all students can also participate in Spanish and French classes during the first year. All of these classes are free (but I'm not sure if one can take them the 2nd year...but it's probably very likely)...CEIBS 3, HKUST 1.
HKUST has a very good administration and a strong dean but CEIBS announced just last week that the marketing professor and a current dean from HBS, who was also a dean at LBS before that, will assume the leadership position at CEIBS. This gives CEIBS increasing momentum and stronger links to HBS, which is also opening a facility (which will supposedly house students) in Shanghai...CEIBS 4, HKUST 1.
HKUST's business school is largely made up of undergrad students, which will provide a larger network down the line. There is a good part-time MBA program that is taught in both HK and Shenzhen. It also boasts the world's #1 joit EMBA program w/ Kellogg. However, not many of the EMBA students are Asia- or China-based. In contrast, CEIBS has the largest EMBA program in the world, with most students based in China or the rest of Asia. This provides a further networking advantage. This is a push...CEIBS 5, HKUST 2.
Average GMAT scores...HKUST is at about 660 (or 665) and CEIBS is at 701. CEIBS was 691 last year but the number is expected to rise this year as well. It's hard to find exact infoRMATION on HKUST GMAT scores but the best research I've done leads me to conclue that HKUST's average GMAT scores are about 30 to 35 points lower than those at CEIBS Although GMAT scores certainly do not make a school great, the elite global schools all have much higher GMAT scores that HKUST. Even a new, rising school like ISB is at 711. I'm sure HKUST's will also rise but the school seems to be "punching above its weight class" at this point in time...CEIBS 6, HKUST 2.
HK is a bad place to learn or use Mandarin. Everyone speaks Cantonese in daily life and prefers to not speak Mandarin even with foreigners who know Mandarin. It is very easy to fall into the normal pattern of just speaking English all the time. In contrast, Shanghai is a great place to learn and speak Mandarin with the locals as well as the non-English speaking CEIBS blue collar staff...CEIBS 7, HKUST 2.
And finally (am I missing any other criteria?), CEIBS and HKUST both promote themselves as being very international yet China/Asia-focused. I mentioned above how I felt CEIBS was more deeply China and Asia rooted than HKUST due to the language requirements, the required coursework on China and Asia that CEIBS mandates, and the various facilities that CEIBS has throughout China. But let's not forget that CEIBS is truly global because in 2009 it established the EMBA program in Accra, Ghana to train African in business management. African-Chinese engagement is one of the largest stories of the 21st century and it continues to go largely un-noticed by the Western press. How many Western b-schools have ever setup campuses in Africa? Except for INSEAD's Fonty campus and a few other European schools, how many b-schools even pay attention to African business despite the un-ending psalms they sing to globalisation? CEIBS' first African cohort just recently graduated and these students do spend time at the Shanghai campus during their matriculation. As for HKUST, well...it claims its international but the only satellite campus it has is the one in Shenzhen for training Mainland EMBAs. CEIBS has a similar facility in Shenzhen for the same purpose as well. So when it comes to Ghana vs. Shenzhen, CEIBS definitely wins out on this criteria. One truly has to applaud CEIBS and the Chinese in general for not fearing to tred in these new locales that would scare off the more conservative, risk-averse types...CEIBS 8, HKUST 2.
So there you have it, CEIBS takes it in a landslide. HKUST does have some really good facilities and some outstanding faculty but CEIBS is the better horse to bet on in the upcoming race. I think we'll see both schools expand their intakes over the coming years but CEIBS should remain the larger school and should have brighter future ahead. If I missed something or if you disagree then please chime in. I really look forward to all your comments - I'm merely trying to start a good discussion on the merits of HKUST now that some of you have been accepted!
Cheers!
I think that a rep from the HKUST admissions office would have contacted me if I was shortlisted for an interview and I don't feel much good would arise from contacting the Admissions Office again. However, it is interesting to note that the CEIBS rep told me that the school had unsuccessfully tried to send me two interview invitations via e-mail the previous week and that both had bounced back, so they called me to invite me to an interview. I assume that HKUST would have done the same. In fact, I even had to open a new e-mail account to receive correspondence from CEIBS. Is anyone participating in the CEIBS online forum with current students, which is today/tomorrow, based on where you're located. I'm registered for it via the CEIBS applicant center but haven't received any further instructions on how to log in.
I'm happy my previous message sparked discussion on CEIBS vs. HKUST vs. other schools in Asia. Here are my thoughts:
Although HKUST is ranked #9 by FT and CEIBS has fallen from #8 (in 2008) to #14 (in 2009) to #22 (in 2010), I think the future is much brighter for CEIBS than for HKUST, although they are both going to rise relative to the competition. For starters, CEIBS just completed its awesome new Beijing campus in Nov. I won't provide a link here but you can go online and view the amazing photos of this facility. HKUST has no Beijing facility (but it does have its second largest alumni group based there)...CEIBS 1, HKUST 0.
In Nov., CEIBS commenced Phase 3 construction to double the size of its Shanghai campus. HKUST is also building a new building; this is a push...CEIBS 2, HKUST 1.
Although HKUST promotes itself as being Asia-focused/China-centric but globally focused, I feel the school doesn't do enough to take advantage of its China location via compulsory langauge training in Chinese for non-Chinese speaking foreign students. In fact, one can attain a China Business focus at HKUST w/o even having to speak any Chinese! Furthermore, the 2 weeks of Putonghua training provided in the pre-term doesn't do much to make a non-Chinese person professionally viable in China. I've met several alums from HKUST who couldn't speak a lick of Chinese and had no interest to even work in Asia. That's fine but I felt they weren't getting the full value of attending school in China. HKUST will organize some low-cost Mandarin classes for interested students but only about 10-15% actually participate in this program. I thus think of HKUST as being "ChinaLite." In contrast, CEIBS requires all foreign students to take Chinese classes during the first year. The pre-term Chinese program for non-Chinese speakers is a full month long. Plus, all students can also participate in Spanish and French classes during the first year. All of these classes are free (but I'm not sure if one can take them the 2nd year...but it's probably very likely)...CEIBS 3, HKUST 1.
HKUST has a very good administration and a strong dean but CEIBS announced just last week that the marketing professor and a current dean from HBS, who was also a dean at LBS before that, will assume the leadership position at CEIBS. This gives CEIBS increasing momentum and stronger links to HBS, which is also opening a facility (which will supposedly house students) in Shanghai...CEIBS 4, HKUST 1.
HKUST's business school is largely made up of undergrad students, which will provide a larger network down the line. There is a good part-time MBA program that is taught in both HK and Shenzhen. It also boasts the world's #1 joit EMBA program w/ Kellogg. However, not many of the EMBA students are Asia- or China-based. In contrast, CEIBS has the largest EMBA program in the world, with most students based in China or the rest of Asia. This provides a further networking advantage. This is a push...CEIBS 5, HKUST 2.
Average GMAT scores...HKUST is at about 660 (or 665) and CEIBS is at 701. CEIBS was 691 last year but the number is expected to rise this year as well. It's hard to find exact infoRMATION on HKUST GMAT scores but the best research I've done leads me to conclue that HKUST's average GMAT scores are about 30 to 35 points lower than those at CEIBS Although GMAT scores certainly do not make a school great, the elite global schools all have much higher GMAT scores that HKUST. Even a new, rising school like ISB is at 711. I'm sure HKUST's will also rise but the school seems to be "punching above its weight class" at this point in time...CEIBS 6, HKUST 2.
HK is a bad place to learn or use Mandarin. Everyone speaks Cantonese in daily life and prefers to not speak Mandarin even with foreigners who know Mandarin. It is very easy to fall into the normal pattern of just speaking English all the time. In contrast, Shanghai is a great place to learn and speak Mandarin with the locals as well as the non-English speaking CEIBS blue collar staff...CEIBS 7, HKUST 2.
And finally (am I missing any other criteria?), CEIBS and HKUST both promote themselves as being very international yet China/Asia-focused. I mentioned above how I felt CEIBS was more deeply China and Asia rooted than HKUST due to the language requirements, the required coursework on China and Asia that CEIBS mandates, and the various facilities that CEIBS has throughout China. But let's not forget that CEIBS is truly global because in 2009 it established the EMBA program in Accra, Ghana to train African in business management. African-Chinese engagement is one of the largest stories of the 21st century and it continues to go largely un-noticed by the Western press. How many Western b-schools have ever setup campuses in Africa? Except for INSEAD's Fonty campus and a few other European schools, how many b-schools even pay attention to African business despite the un-ending psalms they sing to globalisation? CEIBS' first African cohort just recently graduated and these students do spend time at the Shanghai campus during their matriculation. As for HKUST, well...it claims its international but the only satellite campus it has is the one in Shenzhen for training Mainland EMBAs. CEIBS has a similar facility in Shenzhen for the same purpose as well. So when it comes to Ghana vs. Shenzhen, CEIBS definitely wins out on this criteria. One truly has to applaud CEIBS and the Chinese in general for not fearing to tred in these new locales that would scare off the more conservative, risk-averse types...CEIBS 8, HKUST 2.
So there you have it, CEIBS takes it in a landslide. HKUST does have some really good facilities and some outstanding faculty but CEIBS is the better horse to bet on in the upcoming race. I think we'll see both schools expand their intakes over the coming years but CEIBS should remain the larger school and should have brighter future ahead. If I missed something or if you disagree then please chime in. I really look forward to all your comments - I'm merely trying to start a good discussion on the merits of HKUST now that some of you have been accepted!
Cheers!
14 Dec 2010, 16:25
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Bookmarks
hey xuexoa,
I agree with all of your points, and given you aim at a placement in China, CEIBS is probably the better choice. I have also stated that I believe CEIBS' int'l reputation will significantly improve in the long-term, I am not sure though if this is enough to win over HKUST 8 - 2 now.
Anyway, if you aim at the American or European market post-graduation (which is in ... 2-3 years), one might have better cards with an HKUST MBA.
Personally, I strive for a career in Asia, but had already mentioned my concerns w/ post-graduation placement in China. Language IS going to be an issue, and should it be required to raise the white flag and "go home", you still wanna have your investment to pay-off and get you a neat job. CEIBS is not as well-ranked and the int'l reputation not as good as HKUST's, and HKUST definitely has the bigger int'l alumni base than CEIBS... I do not think that this is going to dramatically change.
Both are top universities in Asia and if I had to chose now, I'd probably tend towards CEIBS, still. Ultimately, both are top business schools in Asia.
However, in reality, I am really torn between those two. I am a little bit reluctant to make a choice now, as I (maybe?) don't even have one?
We'll see!
Good luck to you!
PS: just another day to go
I agree with all of your points, and given you aim at a placement in China, CEIBS is probably the better choice. I have also stated that I believe CEIBS' int'l reputation will significantly improve in the long-term, I am not sure though if this is enough to win over HKUST 8 - 2 now.
Anyway, if you aim at the American or European market post-graduation (which is in ... 2-3 years), one might have better cards with an HKUST MBA.Personally, I strive for a career in Asia, but had already mentioned my concerns w/ post-graduation placement in China. Language IS going to be an issue, and should it be required to raise the white flag and "go home", you still wanna have your investment to pay-off and get you a neat job. CEIBS is not as well-ranked and the int'l reputation not as good as HKUST's, and HKUST definitely has the bigger int'l alumni base than CEIBS... I do not think that this is going to dramatically change.
Both are top universities in Asia and if I had to chose now, I'd probably tend towards CEIBS, still. Ultimately, both are top business schools in Asia.
However, in reality, I am really torn between those two. I am a little bit reluctant to make a choice now, as I (maybe?) don't even have one?
We'll see!Good luck to you!
PS: just another day to go
14 Dec 2010, 16:43
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Bookmarks
alright, something i thought about this CEIBS vs. HKUST. I think CEIBS is more like "Whaton" in China, whereas HKUST is more like "Stren". most students in C go to consulting but as well as finance sectors, but H students are mostly enter finace world. there are quite a few reasons i like CEIBS better:
*. HK is slowing down now and SH will take it over. (i am sure most HKers will disagree, but think about the reason why HK exist back to 100 years ago. Now China is open to everyone, so HK is slowly going out of the picture.)
*. HK is mostly recongnized for its finance and logistic. Its single economic structure makes the place less compatitive than SH
*. More and more HK MBAs go to mainland China to work.
*. HK is favorable for local chinese students because they want to have some sort of "international exposure". So if you are international already, the go to china for some real taste
Anyway, i believe HKUST is a great school to study and work in HK. But so far i hear nothing from them except those wierd email notifications (hurt my faith for this school a little bit).
Comparing CEIBS and Tshinghua only makes sense for local chinese students, which means you have chinese nationality. For international students, i think CEIBS is better cause more international companies recruit at C than T. T is more favourable for gov/state based firms (also include its students), so your visa will be an issue. Shanghai is better for consulting and finance. Beijing is better for VC and ent.
*. HK is slowing down now and SH will take it over. (i am sure most HKers will disagree, but think about the reason why HK exist back to 100 years ago. Now China is open to everyone, so HK is slowly going out of the picture.)
*. HK is mostly recongnized for its finance and logistic. Its single economic structure makes the place less compatitive than SH
*. More and more HK MBAs go to mainland China to work.
*. HK is favorable for local chinese students because they want to have some sort of "international exposure". So if you are international already, the go to china for some real taste
Anyway, i believe HKUST is a great school to study and work in HK. But so far i hear nothing from them except those wierd email notifications (hurt my faith for this school a little bit).
Comparing CEIBS and Tshinghua only makes sense for local chinese students, which means you have chinese nationality. For international students, i think CEIBS is better cause more international companies recruit at C than T. T is more favourable for gov/state based firms (also include its students), so your visa will be an issue. Shanghai is better for consulting and finance. Beijing is better for VC and ent.
