Columbia ED

Question

I am very interested in pro-finance schools like Wharton, Chicago, Columbia and NYU. 

It is much easier to get into Columbia in the ED round than the RD round. I don't want to miss ED round because if I don't get selected in any school in the end, I will always be haunted by the "What if I had applied in the ED round?". At the same time, I don't want to not even try Wharton and Chicago if I get selected in Columbia ED.

My question is, if I apply in the ED round and get selected, then what happens if I don't join Columbia (Assuming I get in Wharton or Chicago)? I know I will lose my $5000 deposit. What else?

Anhydrosis · Answer

I've looked at the Columbia website and found their statement about early decision and the $5,000. I expected to find some generic soft statement that you stood a better chance of being accepted early (as you might see on some rolling or even round sites), but it wasn't there. Common sense told me it must be easier, but you seem to have a higher authority than common sense... would you mind sharing where you found this information and what the most recent accept rate was? Thanks.

dukes · Answer

Its conventional wisdom and the data on admissions411.com bears this out.

gmatclb · Answer

Am I missing something here?

Columbia's ED goes from Aug. 15 - Oct. 10

Oct. 10 lies in the same range as other R1 decisions. Do you have to apply in August-Early Sep. to be "really" considered ED?

Also,

 As an Early Decision candidate to Columbia Business School, I understand that if I am admitted I will submit my non-refundable $5000 deposit to secure my place in the September entering class. 

What is "September entering class"? If I apply ED this year, that means I start school next fall 2008, right?

Then WTF is "September entering class"... sounds like the classes would start in September.

jamesdean · Answer

It's the September 2008 class.

So yeah, their ED round is more or less the R1 round. But to increase yield, or whatever reasons, Columbia calls it an early-decision round and makes you deposit $5K as security and makes you sign a document that you will withdraw your applications from other schools if you get selected at Columbia.

johnnyx9 · Answer

Jamesdean - Aside from losing your 5K I don't know if there's anything else they can do to you if you opt for another school. The only thing that I can think of is that it's possible that if you sign a document saying you're withdrawing from other schools, then they may be able to blackball you from other schools -- I'm just speculating here. 

Maybe rustmonster or pelihu or any other lawyers here can chime in about breech of contract or something?

gmatclb · Answer

I fail to see how Columbia's ED round is easier to get into than any other school's first round.

I wonder if Colunbia sends out it's blacklist (names of those that accepted in ED) to some schools.

3underscore · Answer

I don't see how they can blacklist, or how that would be effective in the slightest anyway. 

Columbia ED is easier in that first rounds typically are (the class profile is a blank sheet), plus the deposit is five times that usually used, detering some applicants. This does not make it easy.

I recall some tales that if you accept Columbia ED and then chose to go elsewhere it is viewed as a breach of contract so it doesn't count against their yield. This may be heresay though.

gmatclb · Answer

I wouldn't be surprised about this. I do know some schools use the last 2-year-GPA average in the stats when they list the average GPA. And you also have to wonder when schools list the year of exp. as 5 (a whole numner) From what number did they round from?

mNeo · Answer

I am almost sure that I won't apply in Columbia, so my analysis is backed with little research here. 

A lot of body-shopper companies (I research a little about them to understand the dark-side of the consultancy business) make you sign a contract saying that you guarantee to work for the company for at least 2 years (or whatever) and that there will be a huge penalty if you don't. It turns out that there's no legal way a company can enforce such a thing. Perhaps similarly, there's no legal way Columbia can force you to join them over other schools even when you've signed the contract. 

I also don't see Columbia getting you black-listed from other schools after admission to the Columbia ED round. Other schools are not benefiting from the Columbia ED round. So why would they care? As 3underscore said, perhaps this is just a way of keeping a high yield (Boy ! these schools go far to get good numbers).

However, someone like pelihu (Or someone who researched a lot more about the Columbia ED round) should chime in here.

dukes · Answer

I talked with a Consultant about this issue and he said that you'll just lose your $5k. Other schools don't like CBS' ED policy and view it as a compliment when students are willing to forfeit a big chunk of money just to go to their school (I was concerned that they may consider it unethical). But as far as I know, CBS doesn't black-ball you and doesn't let other schools know that you've been accepted ED. I decided against applying ED because CBS wasn't my first choice and I didn't want to lose the money. Surprisingly, I got in during RD.

Anhydrosis · Answer

At the undergraduate level, several of the top schools (incliding Ivies) have ED programs. If you are accepted ED and don't attend, you will be black-balled by other top schools. So, there is some information sharing between schools... but it likely goes a relatively small group of schools.

This may be different with Columbia since they are the only top MBA that has ED (to the best of my knowledge). This is no  quid pro quo ... "I'll help you with my blacklist if you help me with yours."

jamesdean · Answer

So it appears that I can apply ED in Columbia and still try my luck at Wharton too. Nice to know that :-D

3underscore · Answer

If you apply to both R1 then there isn't anything to difficult about it all. Two R1 applications isn't so bad, and you can avoid the $5k bind if it goes well.

jamesdean · Answer

I don't understand this. Columbia gives the result of the ED much earlier than R1s of other schools. So you will end up paying $5k and signing the contract much earlier than you get results of other R1 applications, right?

3underscore · Answer

I don't think you have to send them the $5k return of post.

A certain level of holding on as late as possible. ED from Columbia would have a set payment deadline end December (I would guess), so you can easy wait to see what R1 at Wharton would do.

I may be wrong on this though, and don't really know any ED Columbia's.

pelihu · Answer

I think people are missing the point here. Irrespective of the deposit amount, Columbia's ED is an honor policy. They require that ED applicants certify that they will drop all other applications and attend Columbia if admitted.

It's true that the policy is on-sided in some ways and could be considered onerous, but nobody is forcing applicants to agree to the policy. In fact, they specifically state that if you are not committed to matriculating if admitted then you should apply for the RD round and not ED.

The bottom line is, that if you choose to apply ED, you are signing your name to a promise that you will attend if admitted. Other than the deposit amount, Columbia has no real leverage to do anything about it if you go back on your agreement, so the real question is what value each applicant puts on their own word. Some people always honor their promises; others are comfortable going back on their word when it suits their purposes.

Columbia ED

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