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RichaChampion
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Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use p 22 Jun 2016, 23:04
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Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use pictures the intellectual quality of publications would diminish, by the late 1890’s photographs were found in most newspapers and magazines.

(A) that if journalists use pictures the intellectual quality of publications would diminish,
(B) that if journalists use pictures it will diminish the intellectual quality of publications,
(C) that the use of pictures by journalists would diminish the intellectual quality of publications,
(D) of the intellectual quality of publications being diminished by the use of pictures by journalists,
(E) of the use of pictures by journalists diminish the intellectual quality of publications,

This is a GMAT Prep Question Pack 1 question. I have few doubts sir.

If_______Then_______

I understand the tenses part of this construction, but I have a doubt in the construction -

If X then Y.

What position can X and Y takes.

1. X and Y should be causes.
2. X and Y can be phrases
3. or X and Y can take some other grammatical constructions.

Condition Y can only be met If X exist.
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mikemcgarry
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Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use p 23 Jun 2016, 15:59
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crunchboss
Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use pictures the intellectual quality of publications would diminish, by the late 1890’s photographs were found in most newspapers and magazines.

(A) that if journalists use pictures the intellectual quality of publications would diminish,
(B) that if journalists use pictures it will diminish the intellectual quality of publications,
(C) that the use of pictures by journalists would diminish the intellectual quality of publications,
(D) of the intellectual quality of publications being diminished by the use of pictures by journalists,
(E) of the use of pictures by journalists diminish the intellectual quality of publications,

This is a GMAT Prep Question Pack 1 question. I have few doubts sir.

If_______Then_______

I understand the tenses part of this construction, but I have a doubt in the construction -

If X then Y.

What position can X and Y takes.

1. X and Y should be causes.
2. X and Y can be phrases
3. or X and Y can take some other grammatical constructions.

Condition Y can only be met If X exist.
Show more
Dear crunchboss,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

In the construction If X, then Y, both X and Y must be full clauses, each with a [subject]+[verb] center. Technically, the word "if" is a subordinate conjunction. Consider this sentence:
If it rains, we won't have the picnic.
The first clause, "if it rains," is a subordinate clause, the after the comma is the independent clause. That's the grammar of the situation.

Here, choice (A) is flawed for other reasons, but in the If X, then Y structure,
X = journalists use pictures
Y = the intellectual quality of publications would diminish

What you said at the end is NOT true: Condition Y can only be met If X exist. Consider the following true statement:
If I am in Berkeley, California, then I am in the United States of America.
X = I am in Berkeley, California
Y = I am in the United States of America
Here, there are thousands of ways to meet condition Y without meeting condition X---one could be in New York City or Chicago or Washington, DC or Santa Fe, New Mexico, to name just a few examples.
If we put "not's" in each statement, or if we simply flip the order around, we don't necessarily get true statements.
If I am in Berkeley, California, then I am in the United States of America. = original true statement
If I am not in Berkeley, California, then I am not in the United States of America. = false
If I am in the United States of America, then I am in Berkeley, California. = false
Notice, though, if we both flip the order around and insert "not's" into each statement, we get another true statement:
If I am not in the United States of America, then I am not in Berkeley, California. = also true
This final transformation is called the contrapositive. The contrapositive of a conditional statement always has the same true value as the original statement: if the original is true, then so is the contrapositive. They can be true together or false together (notice that the two false statements above are contrapositives of each other as well). Another example
If a number is less than -20, then it is negative. = original true statement
If a number is not less than -20, then it is not negative. = false
If a number is negative, then it is less than -20. = false
If a number is not negative, then it is not less than -20. = contrapositive, also true
You do not need to know all this for the GMAT, but it is important to appreciate so you don't make any unnecessary errors.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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RichaChampion
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Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use p 24 Jun 2016, 02:24
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mikemcgarry
crunchboss
Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use pictures the intellectual quality of publications would diminish, by the late 1890’s photographs were found in most newspapers and magazines.

(A) that if journalists use pictures the intellectual quality of publications would diminish,
(B) that if journalists use pictures it will diminish the intellectual quality of publications,
(C) that the use of pictures by journalists would diminish the intellectual quality of publications,
(D) of the intellectual quality of publications being diminished by the use of pictures by journalists,
(E) of the use of pictures by journalists diminish the intellectual quality of publications,

This is a GMAT Prep Question Pack 1 question. I have few doubts sir.

If_______Then_______

I understand the tenses part of this construction, but I have a doubt in the construction -

If X then Y.

What position can X and Y takes.

1. X and Y should be causes.
2. X and Y can be phrases
3. or X and Y can take some other grammatical constructions.

Condition Y can only be met If X exist.
Dear crunchboss,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

In the construction If X, then Y, both X and Y must be full clauses, each with a [subject]+[verb] center. Technically, the word "if" is a subordinate conjunction. Consider this sentence:
If it rains, we won't have the picnic.
The first clause, "if it rains," is a subordinate clause, the after the comma is the independent clause. That's the grammar of the situation.

Here, choice (A) is flawed for other reasons, but in the If X, then Y structure,
X = journalists use pictures
Y = the intellectual quality of publications would diminish

What you said at the end is NOT true: Condition Y can only be met If X exist. Consider the following true statement:
If I am in Berkeley, California, then I am in the United States of America.
X = I am in Berkeley, California
Y = I am in the United States of America
Here, there are thousands of ways to meet condition Y without meeting condition X---one could be in New York City or Chicago or Washington, DC or Santa Fe, New Mexico, to name just a few examples.
If we put "not's" in each statement, or if we simply flip the order around, we don't necessarily get true statements.
If I am in Berkeley, California, then I am in the United States of America. = original true statement
If I am not in Berkeley, California, then I am not in the United States of America. = false
If I am in the United States of America, then I am in Berkeley, California. = false
Notice, though, if we both flip the order around and insert "not's" into each statement, we get another true statement:
If I am not in the United States of America, then I am not in Berkeley, California. = also true
This final transformation is called the contrapositive. The contrapositive of a conditional statement always has the same true value as the original statement: if the original is true, then so is the contrapositive. They can be true together or false together (notice that the two false statements above are contrapositives of each other as well). Another example
If a number is less than -20, then it is negative. = original true statement
If a number is not less than -20, then it is not negative. = false
If a number is negative, then it is less than -20. = false
If a number is not negative, then it is not less than -20. = contrapositive, also true
You do not need to know all this for the GMAT, but it is important to appreciate so you don't make any unnecessary errors.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
Show more


Thanks sir, This is so informative you can convert this into a blog on magoosh. I have one more question sir as you said "Here, there are thousands of ways to meet condition Y without meeting condition X---one could be in New York City or Chicago or Washington, DC or Santa Fe, New Mexico, to name just a few examples. "

Even though there are thousands of ways to meet the condition why, but then what is the connection between X and Y if X is not essential for Y to exist? Did you get my point sir?


If I am in Berkeley, California, then I am in the United States of America.
X = I am in Berkeley, California
Y = I am in the United States of America

The above If Then construction i correct or not?
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mikemcgarry
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Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use p 24 Jun 2016, 14:49
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crunchboss
Thanks sir, This is so informative you can convert this into a blog on magoosh. I have one more question sir as you said "Here, there are thousands of ways to meet condition Y without meeting condition X---one could be in New York City or Chicago or Washington, DC or Santa Fe, New Mexico, to name just a few examples. "

Even though there are thousands of ways to meet the condition why, but then what is the connection between X and Y if X is not essential for Y to exist? Did you get my point sir?

If I am in Berkeley, California, then I am in the United States of America.
X = I am in Berkeley, California
Y = I am in the United States of America

The above If Then construction i correct or not?
Show more
Dear crunchboss,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

First, I'll say the example If-Then statement you gave is grammatically and logically correct. In fact, we can drop the word "then."
If I am in Berkeley, California, I am in the United States of America.

My friend, I want to point out that we are discussing here issues of formal logic, which are wonderful in their own right, but these really are beyond anything you need to know for the GMAT. I will begin with something from mathematics, which might be a little clearer. It's important to appreciate the profound logical asymmetry of the if-then structure.

If a shape is a square, then the shape is a rectangle. = true
This is logically equivalent to the following statement:
Every square is a rectangle. = true

The logical connection between is that if something is a square, it must be a rectangle: there's no way to be a square without also being a rectangle. BUT, and this is important, there are a continuous infinity of possible rectangles that are not squares. The number of rectangles that are not squares infinitely outnumbers the ones that are squares, and yet every square is a rectangle.

In general, if we are given the statement If X, then Y, and if we know that statement is true, then we know that condition X always leads to condition Y and that it is impossible to have condition X without having Y also. At the same time, it leaves open the possibility that there are many other possibilities for condition Y, many other ways for condition Y to exist, without condition X being involved.

With the Berkeley example: if I am in Berkeley, I have to be in the USA; there is absolutely no way I could be in Berkeley and not be in the USA. It would logically equivalent to the statement, "Everyone in Berkeley is in the USA." At the same time, there are 1000s of ways to be in the USA without being in Berkeley.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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RichaChampion
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Despite the criticism in the early 1890’s that if journalists use p 25 Jul 2016, 00:07
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mikemcgarry
crunchboss
Thanks sir, This is so informative you can convert this into a blog on magoosh. I have one more question sir as you said "Here, there are thousands of ways to meet condition Y without meeting condition X---one could be in New York City or Chicago or Washington, DC or Santa Fe, New Mexico, to name just a few examples. "

Even though there are thousands of ways to meet the condition why, but then what is the connection between X and Y if X is not essential for Y to exist? Did you get my point sir?

If I am in Berkeley, California, then I am in the United States of America.
X = I am in Berkeley, California
Y = I am in the United States of America

The above If Then construction i correct or not?
Dear crunchboss,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

First, I'll say the example If-Then statement you gave is grammatically and logically correct. In fact, we can drop the word "then."
If I am in Berkeley, California, I am in the United States of America.

My friend, I want to point out that we are discussing here issues of formal logic, which are wonderful in their own right, but these really are beyond anything you need to know for the GMAT. I will begin with something from mathematics, which might be a little clearer. It's important to appreciate the profound logical asymmetry of the if-then structure.

If a shape is a square, then the shape is a rectangle. = true
This is logically equivalent to the following statement:
Every square is a rectangle. = true

The logical connection between is that if something is a square, it must be a rectangle: there's no way to be a square without also being a rectangle. BUT, and this is important, there are a continuous infinity of possible rectangles that are not squares. The number of rectangles that are not squares infinitely outnumbers the ones that are squares, and yet every square is a rectangle.

In general, if we are given the statement If X, then Y, and if we know that statement is true, then we know that condition X always leads to condition Y and that it is impossible to have condition X without having Y also. At the same time, it leaves open the possibility that there are many other possibilities for condition Y, many other ways for condition Y to exist, without condition X being involved.

With the Berkeley example: if I am in Berkeley, I have to be in the USA; there is absolutely no way I could be in Berkeley and not be in the USA. It would logically equivalent to the statement, "Everyone in Berkeley is in the USA." At the same time, there are 1000s of ways to be in the USA without being in Berkeley.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Mike Mc Garry Sir - Fantatstic! :-D