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BazingAu
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 09 Nov 2014, 20:44
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brandon432
All of the "legal" advice in this thread is very, very bad. Breaching an early admission commitment is a serious ethical dilemma, but I have never heard of civil consequences for doing so.
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No one on here is claiming to offer legal advice. Everyone on this thread agrees that no one has seen or heard of a breach of contract claim based on breaching a binding early decision agreement. Can there be one? If there is an offer, consideration, and an acceptance, then yes, there *can* be a claim. That's what everyone has been saying...is it a possibility? Yes, if the elements of a binding contract are there. Has anyone seen it actually be pursued? No. As everyone as stated, you can lose your deposit (if any was made) and/or the early decision lists can get shared between schools which might cause other schools to withdraw their offer(s) (although I've never seen this in practice either).

But please, no one take this as legal advice, as it was never intended as such - this is just merely social commentary on an anonymous forum. If you are seeking legal advice, retain an attorney that specializes in contract/education law.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 09 Nov 2014, 20:51
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brandon432
All of the "legal" advice in this thread is very, very bad. Breaching an early admission commitment is a serious ethical dilemma, but I have never heard of civil consequences for doing so.
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Woah! Hold-on there brandon432

No one has said that any of this was "legal" advice. I don't think anyone that has been commenting on here would be qualified to give "legal" advice and anyone who was would be smart enough to stay away from a thread like this.

As BazingAu has said, we've only merely offered our opinions on an ethically grey area based on our observations.

BazingAu has stated that the school would have the right to sue, however (from our knowledge) has rarely been exercised.

Reiterating BazingAu's point, this is not legal advice if legal advice is required retain an attorney
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 09 Nov 2014, 20:57
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guys thanks all for your reply..... i totally understand that we are all merely sharing opinions based on what we have heard, and this is not a legal discussion / forum....

if any of you guys hear anything more on regards to EA, please let me know. I am sweating bullets here!
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 29 Dec 2014, 09:59
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Does anyone have any advice on another ED scenario? I applied ED to a school (call it School A) that I was committed to attending if accepted (which I was). However, another school (call it School B) has since offered me admission with a full scholarship. Before the scholarship, I was fully committed to attending School A, and even deposited, but it's difficult for me to ignore a full ride to another school. Should I expect any understanding from the AdCom at School A given the change in financial circumstances?

As an FYI, School A has not offered me any financial assistance, and I will have to take out loans for the entire tuition/living expenses. Also, I was admitted and deposited at School A before being accepted into School B. I chose not to withdraw my application from School B only because I put a lot of effort into the application and wanted to see if I would have gotten in. I wholly did not expect them to offer me a full ride scholarship.

Thanks for any help!
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 29 Dec 2014, 10:15
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Hey Bangarang,

Your situation is similar to mine with a little twist! I got accepted to School A in ED and chose not to withdraw my application from School B since I had put a lot of time and effort as well and wanted to see it through. I put my deposit as well, and found out few weeks ago that I have been admitted to School B (w/o any financial assistance). Both my schools, A and B, are fairly similar in rankings, but one has a higher prestige factor than the other. In short, I can empathize with you.

As for your question, are the two schools significantly apart in rankings / prestige factor? For instance if School B is not a top 15 school, but school A is, then perhaps you need to evaluate the ROI on your educational investment. However, if school B can help you get to your career goals without any debt, then perhaps that is also an option. I posted few threads on different forums, and from what I understand adcoms would like you to keep your promise, however, they are people as well and understand that full scholarship is hard to ignore. Saying that I would be very careful how you phrase your reason for not going to school A. Keep in mind that technically speaking you have already violated the terms of the ED by not withdrawing your application.

If you have any specific question, please feel free to post here or private msg me.

I would love to hear other people's thoughts.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 29 Dec 2014, 10:20
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Shakandbake
As for your question, are the two schools significantly apart in rankings / prestige factor? For instance if School B is not a top 15 school, but school A is, then perhaps you need to evaluate the ROI on your educational investment.
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Good advice here. Shakandbake - what did you end up deciding?
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 29 Dec 2014, 10:31
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@BazigAu......... i have until mid February 2015 to decide what I want to do. I am going crazy thinking about this! I have started an excel sheet to compare the two programs side by side on key factors that are important to me. I hope to make a decision in few weeks, and then sleep on it for few more weeks just to ensure I am 100% comfortable with this life altering decision.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 29 Dec 2014, 11:08
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Thanks for the advice ShankandBake. And to answer your question, the schools are very similar in prestige/rankings. They are geographically distant, but that's it. Both schools can get me to where I want to go, so the decision is boiling down to ethics vs. money (as it always seems to).

I hope I'm not being naive, but I'm thinking that honesty might be the best policy. My *highly tentative* plan is to call up school A (ED) and tell them that I agreed to ED in earnest, and only stayed in the running at other schools because I'd poured my heart and soul into the apps and wanted to see how I did (may need to re-phrase this). But when I was offered a full scholarship, it drastically changed my decision process. I mean, to your point about AdCom being people too, it's difficult for me to imagine someone trying to take 120k+ worth of after-tax financial assistance away from someone.

Any additional thoughts? And best of luck Shakeandbake on your upcoming decision as well!

PS. On another note, has anyone ever actually heard of someone they know (or heard from a reliable source) of an instance where the AdCom at an ED school has actually contacted another MBA program about a student reneging on their ED commitment? I've only read of people hearing of 'horror stories', but no one's actually said it happened to them or someone they know.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 29 Dec 2014, 11:51
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Wow Bangarang (love the name by the way!), that is some ethical conundrum you have...

I personally like your approach with honesty. It aligns with my personal belief that honesty is always the best policy.

Although I guess technically you are still bound to School A and there's probably a 50/50 probability that they'll react negatively, the worst that could happen if you explain to School A your situation is that they say no to offering you scholarship. I don't believe they'll renege on their offer (or if they can) or call School B.

IMHO (I am by no means an expert here), you being honest with them only continues to highlight your character and let's them know that your enrollment isn't a guaranteed thing (I don't think anyone's is even after deposit). The last thing they want is someone enrolling into their program who doesn't really want to be there or someone that enrolls with some sort of resentment towards the program. I have heard that many adcoms don't like it when candidates try to pit schools against each other, however it is going to happen (fact of life) and that is how the real professional world works. If the other school is truly a competitive program, School A should be able to offer you at least some scholarship money to help make them a favorable choice for you.

Disclaimer: Once again I am not an expert and I have no idea what the legal implications are, however I personally have never heard of anyone being penalized for reneging on a binding ED. I do know of someone who was admitted ED, paid the deposit and then chose not to go back to B-school because of an attractive promotion and raise at work.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 29 Dec 2014, 11:57
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Hey Bangarang,

I think you already know what you want to do, so that is a good start. I, however, am still struggling with my decision. PLEASE keep me posted as to how you phrase your rationale, as I can definitely learn from it.

I was told by a highly reliable source that schools speak with each other constantly in formal and informal settings as the admissions circle is very small (think 100 people or so at top 15 schools). I was also told that it would be unlikely (but not improbable) for an ED school to let your other school know that you have reneged on an ED offer. The word of caution was given to me that I do not really have a very valid reason for not withdrawing application from other schools which is part of any ED application. I believe this to be true for you as well.

Honestly speaking, in my opinion and take this with a grain of salt, 2 years is a long time to be unhappy and short amount of time to be happy. Your full scholarship affords you the flexibility to do whatever you chose to do after graduation w/o pondering upon how you will pay the dreaded loan. Go with you gut. If you decide to call school A, please be careful as to why you decided not to withdraw your application.

I am rooting for you to end up where you will be truly happy. Please post on this forum once you have taken any action to mitigate your situation, I am very curious and interested :)
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 05 Jan 2015, 11:26
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Shakandbake
Hey Bangarang,

I think you already know what you want to do, so that is a good start. I, however, am still struggling with my decision. PLEASE keep me posted as to how you phrase your rationale, as I can definitely learn from it.

I was told by a highly reliable source that schools speak with each other constantly in formal and informal settings as the admissions circle is very small (think 100 people or so at top 15 schools). I was also told that it would be unlikely (but not improbable) for an ED school to let your other school know that you have reneged on an ED offer. The word of caution was given to me that I do not really have a very valid reason for not withdrawing application from other schools which is part of any ED application. I believe this to be true for you as well.

Honestly speaking, in my opinion and take this with a grain of salt, 2 years is a long time to be unhappy and short amount of time to be happy. Your full scholarship affords you the flexibility to do whatever you chose to do after graduation w/o pondering upon how you will pay the dreaded loan. Go with you gut. If you decide to call school A, please be careful as to why you decided not to withdraw your application.

I am rooting for you to end up where you will be truly happy. Please post on this forum once you have taken any action to mitigate your situation, I am very curious and interested :)
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Wow, I am in a somewhat similar boat. Once I got accepted to Yale I accepted the letter right away and placed a deposit. I was so excited then I got accepted to Tuck with money!

I am tempted to accept Tuck's offer. My line of thinking is - In April my family is selling their home, if we find a buyer they can give me a loan. If I get this loan I will go to Yale. But if not I will go to tuck with money. So I may need to accept 2 offers due to their early deadlines of acceptance.

My worries are 1. this is unethical and 2. If I accept two offers will the schools talk to each other and both drop me?

I know this is unethical but I have worked my ass off for this and before I drop a quarter million over the next two years and forego income I want to make the best decision.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 05 Jan 2015, 14:16
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I don't know about what your acceptance are for Yale or Tuck are, but I thought you could pay the deposit and fill out for enrollment but it was all non-binding (regular decisions). You simply won't get your deposit back if you choose not to attend. Also, from what I've heard Tuck EA was non-binding in the first place...

That's my understanding of acceptance for normal decisions (may vary with school). In fact for the school where I've put down a deposit there are 2 deposit deadlines, probably because it's non-binding (was explicitly stated in my case that decisions were non-binding for either party!).

Before putting down the deposits though, I'd verify with both schools the nature of the offer...

:gl interesting dilemma though. Let us know how it goes!
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 06 Jan 2015, 08:35
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dtse86
I don't know about what your acceptance are for Yale or Tuck are, but I thought you could pay the deposit and fill out for enrollment but it was all non-binding (regular decisions). You simply won't get your deposit back if you choose not to attend. Also, from what I've heard Tuck EA was non-binding in the first place...

That's my understanding of acceptance for normal decisions (may vary with school). In fact for the school where I've put down a deposit there are 2 deposit deadlines, probably because it's non-binding (was explicitly stated in my case that decisions were non-binding for either party!).

Before putting down the deposits though, I'd verify with both schools the nature of the offer...

:gl interesting dilemma though. Let us know how it goes!
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Thank you for the response! It helps to hear others pov's. I think that is exactly what I will do. I will call the schools (anonymously) and ask about the nature of the acceptance.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 06 Jan 2015, 13:22
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I think we may all disagree at where the line should be drawn, but one thing is for certain: If you have an ED offer, and another offer, make your decision quickly and move on. Waiting around is the worst you can do. ED is treated as a filled chair, and for a school that has a 50% yield rate, you are occupying the spot that two other candidates would love to occupy.

By the way, I think ED is a joke.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 08 Jan 2015, 11:29
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Shakandbake
Hey Bangarang,

I think you already know what you want to do, so that is a good start. I, however, am still struggling with my decision. PLEASE keep me posted as to how you phrase your rationale, as I can definitely learn from it.

I was told by a highly reliable source that schools speak with each other constantly in formal and informal settings as the admissions circle is very small (think 100 people or so at top 15 schools). I was also told that it would be unlikely (but not improbable) for an ED school to let your other school know that you have reneged on an ED offer. The word of caution was given to me that I do not really have a very valid reason for not withdrawing application from other schools which is part of any ED application. I believe this to be true for you as well.

Honestly speaking, in my opinion and take this with a grain of salt, 2 years is a long time to be unhappy and short amount of time to be happy. Your full scholarship affords you the flexibility to do whatever you chose to do after graduation w/o pondering upon how you will pay the dreaded loan. Go with you gut. If you decide to call school A, please be careful as to why you decided not to withdraw your application.

I am rooting for you to end up where you will be truly happy. Please post on this forum once you have taken any action to mitigate your situation, I am very curious and interested :)
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Shakandbake,

I have a wife as well so I've been empathizing with your situation, and I thought I might be able to provide an alternative perspective.

If you and your partner both apply as a pair, the school should know that despite applying ED, not admitting one of you is basically like not admitting your 'team' so rejecting any part of the team is rejecting the whole team.

The whole reason there is a space in the application to indicate whether you're applying with a partner tells me they understand that you are applying as a pair, and in talking with the admissions folks I would stress that you don't want to be away from your wife (which you would have to if she goes to school somewhere else).

At that point the dilemma is not that you would prefer a different school but that you're not in a position to choose any school over your wife. I probably wouldn't tell them outright where else I applied since that's not really the issue at hand, but just let them know that you applied ED in good faith and without your wife you'll be unable to attend.

In my mind, that's a reasonable decision that any person can understand, and if it were to come up at any point in the future I would feel totally comfortable illustrating the dilemma and why I made that decision. Also, if they come back and tell you they would rather you leave your wife for two years they were probably going to steal your soul at some point so it's better to get out now :)

Hopefully that helps, and good luck! I know it's a tough place to be.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 08 Jan 2015, 14:55
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gtg732w........ i agree with what you said. I am trying to think of how to properly phrase my situation and then I will let the admissions committee know. Thanks for your input, highly appreciated.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 12 Jan 2015, 23:20
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Bangarang
Thanks for the advice ShankandBake. And to answer your question, the schools are very similar in prestige/rankings. They are geographically distant, but that's it. Both schools can get me to where I want to go, so the decision is boiling down to ethics vs. money (as it always seems to).

I hope I'm not being naive, but I'm thinking that honesty might be the best policy. My *highly tentative* plan is to call up school A (ED) and tell them that I agreed to ED in earnest, and only stayed in the running at other schools because I'd poured my heart and soul into the apps and wanted to see how I did (may need to re-phrase this). But when I was offered a full scholarship, it drastically changed my decision process. I mean, to your point about AdCom being people too, it's difficult for me to imagine someone trying to take 120k+ worth of after-tax financial assistance away from someone.

Any additional thoughts? And best of luck Shakeandbake on your upcoming decision as well!

PS. On another note, has anyone ever actually heard of someone they know (or heard from a reliable source) of an instance where the AdCom at an ED school has actually contacted another MBA program about a student reneging on their ED commitment? I've only read of people hearing of 'horror stories', but no one's actually said it happened to them or someone they know.
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All the best man. Just becareful of two things, first, don't tell or even give hints of who you are. Don't call or send email from contacts registered in their databases. In fact, I prefer that you let your wife, gf, or sister do it for you (it'll distract them from even thinking it may be a male). Second, when they ask you why you hadn't withdrawn your other application, do not tell them "I worked hard on it and wanted to see how it goes", don't! This isn't a good excuse and we'll probably get them to question how you respected the ED commitment. Just tell them that school B response was so fast that I couldn't even have enough time to finish your school process, not to mention looking after withdrawing applications from other schools (This is generally considered priority B for schools after finishing their own paper work). Their "ED's dropped offers hunt", if such a thing exists, will not go deep to the level that they would check when you received offers from other schools.
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Dilemma with Early Decision (binding) 13 Jan 2015, 09:38
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@abdc99.........thanks for your advise! I accepted the other schools offer today and will be calling the first school tomorrow! Very nerve wrecking.
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