Dinged and Confused : The B-School Applications

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 10:20

Hi All,

I am close to a complete strikeout for my R1 apps. I've missed so bad that I don't even think I'm going to apply R2 like I had planned because I'm clearly missing something. Do I have blinders on? What am I missing?

My profile:

GMAT: 700 (Q45 V41)
GPA: 3.0 (includes an abysmal 1st semester which features an F in P.E..... don't ask) but it trends upwards. Majored in Poli Sci and have zero math classes. Went to a Big Ten school with a good reputation.
WE: Work on Capitol Hill in DC for a Senator for 3+ years on economic/manufacturing/banking policy. Got recs from the Senator and my direct supervisor.
EC: work with my school's alumni assn in DC scheduling volunteer events.

I'm a writer and policy analyst by trade, so I think my essays were pretty strong. I basically write 'narratives' for a living so I figure that my 'why MBA' essay was good. I can't imagine there were too many other applicants with recs from a Senator. And while my WE is 'non-traditional' I'd expect having knowledge of the fed govt, Congress, regulations, etc would be very useful in b school and beyond.

I'm thinking I need to step up my Quant game to offset my low GPA and marginal Q gmat score. I really can't bring myself to take the GMAT again especially after I got a 700. Also I took it in 2012, I just don't know if I'm up for that whole can of worms again. Would anyone recommend a class to demonstrate my 1) commitment and 2) quant abilities? Is online okay or is in-person at a CC preferable? Should I take Calc or Stats or both? I haven't taken math since HS. I'm not afraid of it, but can I just walk into a Calc class and get an A if I haven't done it in a while?

-Dinged and Confused

HBS: Ding
Darden: Ding
Kellogg: Ding
McDonough: Ding
Anderson: Pending

kple12

Manager

Joined: 18 Oct 2012

Posts: 64

Concentration: Finance, Accounting

Schools: Duke '16 (M) Anderson '16 (WD)

GMAT 1: 660 Q47 V34

GMAT 2: 700 Q48 V39

GPA: 3.59

WE:Accounting (Law)

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 11:46

1. Did you explain your GPA in an optional essay and what you can do to overcome it?
2. The Senator rec works IF he knows you and can speak to your abilities. If not, it comes off as name dropping and it actually can detract from your application.
3. What is your post MBA goal? Was it realistic?
4. Just wondering, who did you have review your essays?

At first glance, your GMAT is fine and GPA is the only real issue which if you knock it out of the park in the other aspects of your application, you should have gotten in just fine at Georgetown and had a fighting chance at UVA. Your profile does not come off as someone who cannot handle the academic rigor of an MBA program so I think there is something else in your application the schools dinged you on.

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 11:58

Kple12 thanks for the reply.

1. I did explain my GPA in an optional essay. Short version: completely lost 1st semester at undergrad, actually signed up for the Marines, then dropped out before basic training (like I said, LOST). But came back to my senses and started taking my academics seriously. GPA trends upward.

2. Senator knows me quite well, however I'm not sure how much that came off in the rec. She's busy and obviously didn't write it herself. (I'm mean obvious bc she's so busy, not that it was evident just by reading the rec). I might write it to have more personal anecdotes next time?

3. Post MBA goal- consulting. Rationale: consulting firms do tons of work with the fed govt, knowledge of its workings, limitations, and goals would be advantageous for a firm.

4. Essays reviewed by my mother. Probably not the best person, but she is a successful professional with decades of mgmt experience.

towski

Manager

Joined: 14 Nov 2012

Posts: 66

Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

Updated on: 26 Aug 2015, 15:07

///

Originally posted by towski on 19 Dec 2013, 12:33.
Last edited by towski on 26 Aug 2015, 15:07, edited 1 time in total.

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 12:43

@towski can you elaborate?

Are you saying I should write it next time?

dave785

Manager

Joined: 09 Apr 2013

Posts: 161

Location: United States

Concentration: Finance, Economics

Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (S) Booth '16 (D) Anderson '16

GMAT 1: 710 Q44 V44

GMAT 2: 740 Q48 V44

GPA: 3.1

WE:Sales (Mutual Funds and Brokerage)

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 14:41

What school did you go to? A 3.0 from Harvard is very forgivable, but a 3.0 from Devry will doom you.

Also, at some of those schools, college level calc is an absolute requirement, and not having it is an automatic rejection. UCLA is like that.

Posted from my mobile device

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 15:19

@dave785: I went to Wisconsin. So you think Calc would be better than business stats?

towski

Manager

Joined: 14 Nov 2012

Posts: 66

Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

Updated on: 26 Aug 2015, 15:07

///

Originally posted by towski on 19 Dec 2013, 15:45.
Last edited by towski on 26 Aug 2015, 15:07, edited 1 time in total.

L

bb

Founder

Joined: 04 Dec 2002

Posts: 37263

Location: United States (WA)

GMAT 1: 750 Q49 V42

GPA: 3

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 16:24

Expert Reply

towski wrote:

bconlan wrote:

@towski can you elaborate?

Are you saying I should write it next time?

Your original post implied that you wrote it this time. If she didn't write it, then who did?

Interns and speech writers who handle all/most of the communications and pesky things like this. For example, West Point (undergrad) requires a senator recommendation letter for admission. I doubt that a US Senator would write all those things.
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dave785

Manager

Joined: 09 Apr 2013

Posts: 161

Location: United States

Concentration: Finance, Economics

Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (S) Booth '16 (D) Anderson '16

GMAT 1: 710 Q44 V44

GMAT 2: 740 Q48 V44

GPA: 3.1

WE:Sales (Mutual Funds and Brokerage)

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

19 Dec 2013, 17:56

bconlan wrote:

@dave785: I went to Wisconsin. So you think Calc would be better than business stats?

"better" would be the wrong word... instead, think "minimum requirement."

EDIT:

Actually, just to dobule check, i went into some of the application websites and could not find any mention of this as a bare-minimum requirement. I could've sworn that, last year, when I first applied to UCLA, they listed calc and stat as prerequisites... maybe it isn't as big of a deal anymore.

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

20 Dec 2013, 08:00

Regardless, I find it hard to believe that the Senator's rec not being personal enough (although it was pretty personal) was the reason I got dinged from all 5 of these schools. I find it far more likely that I have a deficiency in quant. How do I rectify that?

B

farful

Senior Manager

Joined: 09 Sep 2013

Status:Alum

Posts: 412

Location: United States

Schools: Tepper '16 (M)

GMAT 1: 730 Q52 V37

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

20 Dec 2013, 08:10

bconlan wrote:

Regardless, I find it hard to believe that the Senator's rec not being personal enough (although it was pretty personal) was the reason I got dinged from all 5 of these schools. I find it far more likely that I have a deficiency in quant. How do I rectify that?

Take classes at your local community college. Calculus, Statistics, Economics,... the more the better. Also make sure to get As in them!
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bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

20 Dec 2013, 08:17

farful wrote:

bconlan wrote:

Regardless, I find it hard to believe that the Senator's rec not being personal enough (although it was pretty personal) was the reason I got dinged from all 5 of these schools. I find it far more likely that I have a deficiency in quant. How do I rectify that?

Take classes at your local community college. Calculus, Statistics, Economics,... the more the better. Also make sure to get As in them!

Thanks. Is in-person vastly better than online? I would imagine it is, but online would be so much more convenient for my life.

B

CriticalSquare

MBA Admissions Consultant

Joined: 18 Apr 2013

Posts: 2226

Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

20 Dec 2013, 12:07

Hey there,

In person is generally viewed more favorably than online but, at the end of the day, if your schedule doesn't really allow for in person then it really isn't an option. Given where you applied and what you have mentioned at a high level about the pieces of your application, I think it came down to overall story and cohesiveness of your application. Without knowing more I can't say it was one or two things in particular but it almost always centers around cohesiveness when you have a list as diverse as yours.

For example, your recommendation may have been outstanding but if it didn't tie to what you wrote in your essays, then it won't do you much good. On the other hand, if it did tie but lacked any concrete examples or relative comparisons, then that is equally useless. Additionally, there's more to writing essays than simply the narratives (although that IS important) so if you had a beautiful essay that didn't communicate key themes or components the school was looking for, then they might not have helped you either.

Most admissions consulting firms, including ours, offers Free Consultations and services that include thorough Ding Reviews. I'd suggest you take advantage of at least the Free Consultation component. It's very hard to diagnose a troubled application on a forum or through email. Talking to you gets us part of the way there and can help us identify some potential issues which can be helpful. The Ding Reviews take it many, many steps deeper and we mark up your entire application with a proverbial red pen.

Something to consider - I'm sorry you have had such a rough go of R1 but keep your chin up!

Bhavik

InterviewBay2

Manager

Joined: 25 Apr 2013

Status:Mock Interviews for Business Schools by Alumni

Posts: 194

Location: United States

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

23 Dec 2013, 01:21

bconlan wrote:

Hi All,

I am close to a complete strikeout for my R1 apps. I've missed so bad that I don't even think I'm going to apply R2 like I had planned because I'm clearly missing something. Do I have blinders on? What am I missing?

My profile:

GMAT: 700 (Q45 V41)
GPA: 3.0 (includes an abysmal 1st semester which features an F in P.E..... don't ask) but it trends upwards. Majored in Poli Sci and have zero math classes. Went to a Big Ten school with a good reputation.
WE: Work on Capitol Hill in DC for a Senator for 3+ years on economic/manufacturing/banking policy. Got recs from the Senator and my direct supervisor.
EC: work with my school's alumni assn in DC scheduling volunteer events.

I'm a writer and policy analyst by trade, so I think my essays were pretty strong. I basically write 'narratives' for a living so I figure that my 'why MBA' essay was good. I can't imagine there were too many other applicants with recs from a Senator. And while my WE is 'non-traditional' I'd expect having knowledge of the fed govt, Congress, regulations, etc would be very useful in b school and beyond.

I'm thinking I need to step up my Quant game to offset my low GPA and marginal Q gmat score. I really can't bring myself to take the GMAT again especially after I got a 700. Also I took it in 2012, I just don't know if I'm up for that whole can of worms again. Would anyone recommend a class to demonstrate my 1) commitment and 2) quant abilities? Is online okay or is in-person at a CC preferable? Should I take Calc or Stats or both? I haven't taken math since HS. I'm not afraid of it, but can I just walk into a Calc class and get an A if I haven't done it in a while?

-Dinged and Confused

HBS: Ding
Darden: Ding
Kellogg: Ding
McDonough: Ding
Anderson: Pending

You have a good profile but a 700 GMAT score and a 3.0 GPA have made things difficult for your selection. Did you get an interview call at any of those schools?

Even with work experience under a Senator, you need to have good leadership roles. Have you made an impact when you worked with the Senator? Were you involved in any key bills? Even your extra-curriclars involve just volunteering. It is easy to volunteer for anyone. You need to take up leadership activities and make a significant contribution. Unfortunately, just volunteering doesn’t help for any top schools.

I don’t think your GMAT is really the problem for McDonough, Darden and Anderson. Get someone from your target school to analyze your complete application.

Good Luck!
https://www.interviewbay.com

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

23 Dec 2013, 18:37

InterviewBay2 wrote:

bconlan wrote:

Hi All,

I am close to a complete strikeout for my R1 apps. I've missed so bad that I don't even think I'm going to apply R2 like I had planned because I'm clearly missing something. Do I have blinders on? What am I missing?

My profile:

GMAT: 700 (Q45 V41)
GPA: 3.0 (includes an abysmal 1st semester which features an F in P.E..... don't ask) but it trends upwards. Majored in Poli Sci and have zero math classes. Went to a Big Ten school with a good reputation.
WE: Work on Capitol Hill in DC for a Senator for 3+ years on economic/manufacturing/banking policy. Got recs from the Senator and my direct supervisor.
EC: work with my school's alumni assn in DC scheduling volunteer events.

I'm a writer and policy analyst by trade, so I think my essays were pretty strong. I basically write 'narratives' for a living so I figure that my 'why MBA' essay was good. I can't imagine there were too many other applicants with recs from a Senator. And while my WE is 'non-traditional' I'd expect having knowledge of the fed govt, Congress, regulations, etc would be very useful in b school and beyond.

I'm thinking I need to step up my Quant game to offset my low GPA and marginal Q gmat score. I really can't bring myself to take the GMAT again especially after I got a 700. Also I took it in 2012, I just don't know if I'm up for that whole can of worms again. Would anyone recommend a class to demonstrate my 1) commitment and 2) quant abilities? Is online okay or is in-person at a CC preferable? Should I take Calc or Stats or both? I haven't taken math since HS. I'm not afraid of it, but can I just walk into a Calc class and get an A if I haven't done it in a while?

-Dinged and Confused

HBS: Ding
Darden: Ding
Kellogg: Ding
McDonough: Ding
Anderson: Pending

You have a good profile but a 700 GMAT score and a 3.0 GPA have made things difficult for your selection. Did you get an interview call at any of those schools?

Even with work experience under a Senator, you need to have good leadership roles. Have you made an impact when you worked with the Senator? Were you involved in any key bills? Even your extra-curriclars involve just volunteering. It is easy to volunteer for anyone. You need to take up leadership activities and make a significant contribution. Unfortunately, just volunteering doesn’t help for any top schools.

I don’t think your GMAT is really the problem for McDonough, Darden and Anderson. Get someone from your target school to analyze your complete application.

Good Luck!
https://www.interviewbay.com

I'm confused by your answer. I have a good profile, but my 700 GMAT and 3.0 are making my selection hard? So then my profile isn't good?

I believe my 65%ish percentile GMAT quant score + my lack of quant in school + a low GPA has led the adcoms to believe I am not fit for a quant rigorous program like an MBA. That's my analysis, and I have proposed taking calc and stats on UCLA extension to rectify that, but that doesn't seem to be the prevailing wisdom on here so I am a bit concerned that I am completely off base.

As for the rest of my profile, yes I have drafted legislation that has passed into law, written speeches, and had a strong impact and professional progression. As for the leadership, yes it isn't fantastic-- I have no direct reports. However for the EC, I am actually the volunteer chair for my city alumni association, i.e. I coordinate volunteers for events that we are putting on and lead them on those events. I made my essays about my leaderships experiences as well, because I knew they were not reflected strongly in my resume.

CobraKai

Director

Joined: 23 Oct 2012

Status:Too close for missiles, switching to guns.

Posts: 785

Location: United States

Schools: Johnson (Cornell) - Class of 2015

WE:Military Officer (Military & Defense)

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

23 Dec 2013, 18:53

bconlan wrote:

I believe my 65%ish percentile GMAT quant score + my lack of quant in school + a low GPA has led the adcoms to believe I am not fit for a quant rigorous program like an MBA. That's my analysis, and I have proposed taking calc and stats on UCLA extension to rectify that, but that doesn't seem to be the prevailing wisdom on here so I am a bit concerned that I am completely off base.

I think you're on the right track. B-school curriculums involve quant, and not taking math classes in college with a 65%ile on the Quant GMAT probably isn't convincing the adcoms you can handle the load.

Something else to consider: What are your career goals? Did you connect the dots to make the adcom believe you're employable? At the end of the day, adcoms want interesting applicants that can get a good job to boost the career numbers and make the school look good. If they don't think you're employable, they won't admit you. Period.

Also, how bad do you want it? Yes a 700 GMAT score is good, but with a 65%ile quant, your lack of a quant background and a 3.0 GPA in Poli sci, it's probably not enough at those top 20 schools. You're probably competing with other non-traditionals such as Teach for America and Peace corps applicants. If those folks are applying with better GPA/GMAT combos, it'll be tough for you. Taking it again to get a better quant and better overall score will help your case.

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

23 Dec 2013, 19:08

CobraKai wrote:

Something else to consider: What are your career goals? Did you connect the dots to make the adcom believe you're employable? At the end of the day, adcoms want interesting applicants that can get a good job to boost the career numbers and make the school look good. If they don't think you're employable, they won't admit you. Period.

Also, how bad do you want it? Yes a 700 GMAT score is good, but with a 65%ile quant, your lack of a quant background and a 3.0 GPA in Poli sci, it's probably not enough at those top 20 schools. You're probably competing with other non-traditionals such as Teach for America and Peace corps applicants. If those folks are applying with better GPA/GMAT combos, it'll be tough for you. Taking it again to get a better quant and better overall score will help your case.

Thanks for the reply.

After reading around here at the essay help, I think I was also not clear enough (or SPECIFIC enough) in my career goals essays. I definitely think that could have been a knock against me.

As for the GMAT, I honestly am not sure that I can do better than Q65. I scored a 99 and 95 on V in my two tests, and I got the 99 without any prep the first time. After the first test I got a 650 so I took Manhattan GMAT and studied my ass off for 4 months to get that 65Q. I am clearly not quant oriented!

Retaking the GMAT is not something I would take lightly, especially after getting a 700. If the consensus is that I have to do better on GMAT quant, then I will do it, but that doesn't seem to be the consensus.... at least not yet.

Thanks again for the help.

B

asimov

VP

Joined: 08 Apr 2009

Posts: 1186

Concentration: General Management, Strategy

Schools: Duke (Fuqua) - Class of 2012

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

23 Dec 2013, 20:28

There has got to be more to the story. A 700 is a respectable score, especially since scores have been trending lower with falling application volume. Your work history and recommendations, on the surface, position you in the top 20 range. Did you get ding with or without interviews? If so, where did you get interviews from?

bconlan

Intern

Joined: 20 Nov 2011

Posts: 11

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

24 Dec 2013, 01:09

asimov wrote:

There has got to be more to the story. A 700 is a respectable score, especially since scores have been trending lower with falling application volume. Your work history and recommendations, on the surface, position you in the top 20 range. Did you get ding with or without interviews? If so, where did you get interviews from?

That's what I thought too. I had more safeties on my list that an admissions consultant told me would not be necessary because McDonough would be 'safe' enough.

I interviewed at McDonough and Kellogg. Also busted my ass making connections, doing coffees, emails, etc. with alumni/faculty/students/admins at several of the schools, to no avail. My current job can be very network-y so it's something I'm used to. I thought I did pretty well getting in touch with people and making clear to the admissions folks that I was interested in their school.

At this point I'm thinking I might take a year rather than rush things in for R2. Also I'm thinking next year I'm going to cast a wider net as well. Before I do that though I'd like to figure out what went so wrong this time around.

gmatclubot

Re: Dinged and Confused [#permalink]

24 Dec 2013, 01:09

Dinged and Confused

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