Employment stats of top 30 BSchools

Question

New Business week article compares employment stats of top 30 business school. Following is the link:

https://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/10 ... /index.htm

Its surprising to see some of the bottom 30 schools such as Olin and Smith doing so well. On the other hand Wharton, Duke, Ross and Cornell have more than 20% unemployed students. Any comment?

lagomez · Answer

As I read in the BW Forum (there is a thread about this), it's impossible to determine the percentage of people who had to "settle" for any job. I am sure a lot of people are going to "settle" because, well, let's face it, no income after two years can take its toll.

Maybe ego comes into play and some don't want to "settle". It's too hard to determine. Still, I would much rather go to Wharton than Olin because the chances of getting the job that I actually want are still a higher with Wharton.

The numbers don't really mean much to me. Just my opinion. Maybe throw in some income data and industry breakdown to shed more light.

asimov · Answer

This makes me rethink the ROI on some of the schools.

2012dreams · Answer

i agree, a lot of that report does have something to do with the types of jobs students at various schools expect to get. i'd say the programs from 20-30, most of those students are happy with middle of the road project manager, marketing manager, general manager, corporate finance jobs in solid F500's (these companies have solid recruitment and usually have a consistent number of openings). students at the top schools are usually vying for a limited number of high finance, banking, top 5 MC, and management positions at high demand orgs such as Nike, Google, etc. they are more likely to remain jobless in hopes of landing the position they "think" they deserve. what would make the report clearer, IMO, is the list of companies hiring at each campus. i'm sure the top schools, while having lower placement, still have more exclusive recruiters.

VictoryMBA · Answer

I'm a grad student at Cornell, however Johnson school staff/students have told me that there are quite a bit of students that will wait until the perfect job comes along before they sign their name on the dotted line (they know they can).

rhyme · Answer

These figures are, as some people have mentioned, pretty meaningless.

I know a number of people who 'settled' for something close to what they wanted.... I know a LOT of people who took consulting jobs that really wanted investment management or investment banking, but they just "dropped" to the second highest paying job out there. Sure, $125K base with a nice $20 or $30K sign on isn't bad, but if its not what you want to do, you'll probably be miserable.

It also isn't a meaningful comparison (yet) because, frankly, I want to see what happens to some of those MC and IB offers that have already been pushed out months and months and months. For instance, one of the top 3 consulting firms has pushed their Asia start dates to March 2010.... that's 9 months after graduation! Those offers may not be "rescinded", but it sure isn't a red carpet welcome either.

usmba2010 · Answer

Any idea how internationals are doing? Internationals cant wait for their dream job. They get 2 months after graduation. If unemployed 2 months after graduation, they have to leave the country.

rhyme · Answer

I've heard its been tough on them, and I believe it. I know of at least one guy who took some banking job in Dallas just to get *something*. That said, he's happy, so I guess it worked out. I also recently heard of a story of one guy who left the country on vacation, apparently invalidating his VISA, and then had his offer rescinded as a result. Assuming the story is true, its worth noting that he's not an idiot and would have known about the VISA limitations. The rumour going around is that this particular firm (investment bank) has been doing this kind of thing all summer to a number of candidates -- looking for simple excuses to rescind offers.

3underscore · Answer

That simply is not true, and is an ill informed point on an important issue for international applicants.

You can apply for your work visa to start about 3 months after graduation. Then you are only allowed to accrue 90 days of non-work, but volunteering for 20 hours a week counts as employment (there is also little verification on this, on account of it being some politicians smart idea but virtually impossible to monitor or control). this only came in around 2008, and was a lot more flexible before then.

So, graduating in May a friend started his job mid-October (planned with the firm for the limit on his OPT). If he volunteered between graduation and then, he would have maintained day count.

There is a lot of tough things occuring for internationals - I would hazard a guess many of the unemployed stats you see are internationals who had jobs pulled for visas, or found opportunities much more scarce due to the visa environment. I was there with a good few others, and some are still working for free having been declined offers due to visa points.

As for the RoI calculation, I am not sure where to start. I never really understood why people did them before hand, as I always thought of elements outside of money. Virtually everyone graduating a top school can earn 100k per annum (if they so wish). The real ball game is what happens in 5 years time, as that is when you see who made good decisions.

eminent · Answer

Agreed wholeheartedly. In fact, I'd say the real ballgame is what happens in 10 years time, but at that point it's not dependent on where you went to school anymore

Five years is a pretty good reflection on the choices you made in school and shortly thereafter.

GoBruin · Answer

School 2009 2007 2009 2007
Yale  8 % 6 % $ 96,000 $ 95,000 +$ 1,000
Washington 8 % 4 % $ 90,000 $ 88,000 +$ 2,000
Harvard 8.8 % 3 % $114,400 $115,000 - $ 600
Stanford 10 % 3 % $120,000 $115,000 +$ 5,000
MIT 12.8 % 2 % $110,000 $110,000 $ 0
Maryland 13 % 2 % $ 85,000 $ 83,000 +$ 2,000
Booth 13.5 % 2.4 % $100,000 $100,000 $ 0
Kellogg 14 % 5 % $105,000 $100,000 +$ 5,000
Columbia 14 % 5 % $100,000 $100,000 $ 0
Haas 14 % 4 % $110,000 $100,000 +$ 10,000
CMU Tepper 14 % 3 % $100,000 $ 95,000 +$ 5,000
Tuck 14 % 2 % $105,000 $100,000 +$ 5,000
Georgia Tech 15 % 2 % $ 85,000 $ 80,000 +$ 5,000
BYU 17 % 2 % $ 90,000 $ 85,000 +$ 5,000
Emory 18 % 6 % $ 91,000 $ 90,000 +$ 1,000
Darden 18 % 3 % $100,000 $ 95,000 +$ 5,000
NYU* 18 % 8 %* (2008) $ 95,000 $ 95,000* $ 0
Owen 19 % 13 % $ 95,000 $ 90,000 +$ 5,000
USC 19 % 4 % $ 95,000 $ 90,000 +$ 5,000
Notre Dame 19 % 1 % $ 92,500 $ 86,000 +$ 5,500
Foster 19 % 7 % $ 83,000 $ 85,000 - $ 2,000
UCLA 20 % 4 % $ 95,000 $ 95,000 $ 0
Wharton 21 % 3.9 % $110,000 $100,000 $ 0
UT Austin 21 % 2 % $ 95,000 $ 94,300 +$ 700
Duke 22 % 9 % $100,000 $ 95,000 +$ 5,000
Ross 22 % 4 % $100,000 $ 95,000 +$ 5,000
Cornell 24.2 % 3.9 % $ 95,000 $ 95,000 $ 0
SMU 27 % 10 % $ 87,000 $ 85,000 +$ 2,000
Indiana 28 % 3 % $ 92,000 $ 90,000 +$ 2,000
UNC 29 % 7 % $ 95,000 $ 92,000 +$ 3,000

usmba2010 · Answer

3underscore, I think you are talking about the case when you have a job offer. There are provisions to fill gap between OPT and H1B. I am talking about the case when you dont get job in 2 months. I have a PhD (3 years ago) and been through OPT process. I deferred my graduation, did internship from July- sept and joined company in Oct to avoid gap between OPT and H1B. Now regulations allow for gap between OPT and H1B start date. But I am talking about the case when you dont get job offer. As far as I remember you get 2 months (not very sure what it is now).

sharkk · Answer

It is interesting to see the median salary is same for USC graduates as well as UCLA graduates - $95,000

3underscore · Answer

OK, my third attempt at replying to this without seeming overly annoyed. As you may see, I have failed again.

H1B - strawman. I never mentioned it, neither did you, and now it suddenly comes in to dig you out of a hole in which you are still wrong. The H1B rules do allow a bridge between the end of 1 year OPT and the approved H1B, for reference.

So, what are we going to run with? Someone who is actually on OPT and has lived this for the past five months alongside a bunch of people in the same circumstance? Or your memories from your PhD three years ago? If we are in your PhD land, I would sell your stock as it seems to be about to top, sell your house as prices might crash, and maybe look into shorting subprime.

I am talking about the case when you don't have a job offer, because that was my whole summer. I actually do know what I am talking about as it is my whole damn visa status, while you are operating on old rules, conjecture and memory.

3underscore · Answer

$95k is a very, very standard post MBA number (without bonus). It may well reflect that the number is currently embedded in industry. Getting the same salary is not the key point - there are a lot of awful jobs that pay $95k. Investment Banking being one.

sharkk · Answer

I was thinking that UCLA grads will make more than USC grads. We can not say that many USC grads are getting awful jobs, right.

shadow · Answer

let's try and play nice fellas (ladies?), or not play at all

DuckPond · Answer

I have no idea if this is actually the case but two schools could have the same median but very different overall compensation profiles. For example:

School 1:
$50K
$60k
$95K
$95K
$95K

School 2:
$95K
$95K
$95K
$125k
$145k

Median for both is $95k but the compensation is better at school 2. A more sublte version of that could be going on between USC and UCLA but I know next to nothing about those schools.

sharkk · Answer

I totally agree with your explanation and example.
But If one ends up with $95K job by attending School1 (USC) then one is as good as attending School2 (UCLA) and getting $95K.
There are couple of reasons why I am talking about these two scools. First, I live in LA. I am familiar with these two schools. Second, It is tougher to get in to UCLA compared to USC.

shadow · Answer

well sticking strictly to the fictional example above, you have 2/5 of the graduates (40%) earning UNDER 95k at school 1, whereas at school 2, 0% of the graduates earn 95K. so knowing the median wont really tell you much; you'd need to get extra information in order to make the job placement and salary assessment relevant.

Employment stats of top 30 BSchools

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