Finetuning my school list

Question

HI all,

following terp06's topic, I would like your valuable help in assessing and finishing off my list of target schools. Here follows my profile as reported also in the accepted.com board:

Age, gender, ethnicity: almost 27 (almost 28 at matriculation), white male, Italian.

Education: BA (Hon.) with a major in marketing and business administration from Bocconi UG (best management college in Italy). GPA 28,2/30, final mark 110/110. Semester abroad at Strathclyde (UK). Member of International Students Association.

GMAT: taking it in two weeks, currently scoring 720-750 in MGMAT and GMATPrep

Work Experience (3 years at matriculation):
- 20 months at a boutique MC firm in Italy: promoted after one year, given an intern and a full-time analyst to manage after one year, substantial contribution in selling the extension of a major engagement, acted as the company reference point for IT procurement and integration with parent company when the firm was acquired;
- 3 months now in a major MC firm (top 3): international engagement (Ukraine, Switzerland, Italy) as well as international team (Ukrainian, Russian, Dutch, Italian), should be promoted to a post-MBA position in one year.

Extracurriculars: junior teacher at local sailing club, organized sailing race with about 100 participants; head of non-editorial activities for the leading italian music webzine (until I went working as a consultant), negotiated two deals with major players in the online advertising business.

Career Goal: move to the US in a product management role in a major Internet-based company (first choice would be Amazon), eventually lead my own team or my startup again in a product and design based industry.

Weaknesses: took me one year more than expected to graduate, due to family matters. I also feel my extracurricular are not up to par with other applicants though leadership could emerge in my professional career so far.

Other: at my previous company I worked directly with the CEO for a couple of months, he happens also to be a VP of HBS Alumni and would strongly support my candidacy with compelling stories.

School list as of now:

- HBS R1: non plus ultra in GM/how to lead a team, could fully exploit my former CEO's LOR; yet worried about XC and I'm obviously neither a superstar nor I have a very distinctive profile.

- Stanford R1: very good impression from alumnus, non plus ultra in placement and curriculum for internet-based companies, ultra-elite; worried about XC and fit (I'm a very European guy), chances are slim as for almonst anyone

- Tuck R1: very good in GM, very close atmosphere (I have never experienced campus life), couple of professors that I admire, good impression by current manager who is an alumnus; worried about XC, probably will not be able to visit, cannot ski

- LBS R2: possibly best European school, brand recognition in the US; not sure about fit with my career goal.

- INSEAD R2: good standing in GM, Wharton exchange program, brand recognition in the US (?), admire a couple professors; a gazillion of European MCs apply there and get admitted, so I'm worried about competitiveness and diversity of student body.

I am considering adding Kellogg to my schools and possibly drop Stanford or LBS. Your input would be very welcome both in assessing my current plan (brutality is appreciated :-D

) and in suggesting schools I may want to add or drop.

Paradosso

- LBS R2: possibly best European school, brand recognition in the US; not sure about fit with my career goal. - INSEAD R2: good standing in GM, Wharton exchange program, brand recognition in the US (?), admire a couple professors; a gazillion of European MCs apply there and get admitted, so I'm worried about competitiveness and diversity of student body. I am considering adding Kellogg to my schools and possibly drop Stanford or LBS. Your input would be very welcome both in assessing my current plan (brutality is appreciated :-D

) and in suggesting schools I may want to add or drop. Paradosso

deckardbr · Answer

Hi Paradosso, Given your post-MBA goal I think you should definitely add Kellogg. It has a strong GM focus. If you want to limit the number of schools you apply to, I'd say either drop HBS or Stanford. They are both extremely tough, and you might be better off praying for one school at a time :-)

Also, culturally very different. Good luck! Andrea PS I'm Italian too :-)

Paradosso · Answer

Ciao Andrea,

I am more and more convinced of the Kellogg/Stanford substitution, let's see what the others think. Also, I would not mind an overall peer evaluation of the school list given my goal and my profile/chances.

Roberto

riverripper · Answer

Stanford is one of those places that is nearly impossible...only apply if you couldnt live with the "what if?"

I would say going to Tuck without visiting would be setting yourself up for a shock.

Now here is a wicked twist for you. I would replace LBS with an American school for one reason. The weak US dollar these days.

agold · Answer

Considering your career goal of being in the US, I concur with riverripper that you should take off LBS. I would also recommend taking off INSEAD. Finding a US Tech Job will be far easier at even lower ranked US schools like Duke, UCLA, or Darden than it would be at INSEAD or LBS.

Paradosso · Answer

Thanks guys.

riverripper: the argument "it's nearly impossible, so don't apply" does not stand stocastichally (assume it won't come at detriment of the quality of other applications) unless you see some specific weakness or lack or fit in my profile: if that's the case, I would be grateful if you can expand on this (I'm not dying with the 'what if' for Stanford, I am for HBS). Dropping LBS is something I am thinking of, yet I love London and there are good pdt mgmt jobs there as well, even in the internet industry (think last.fm, google), though I'd rather move to the US. As for the weak dollar, this is indeed very true (I'm going shopping in NYC two weeks in August) and helpful, but it also means it will be much more competitive this year among Europeans. As for Tuck: I am visiting in September with my current supervisor, a Dutch alumnus; I hear only good things about Tuck.

terp06: I was thinking that schools like INSEAD and LBS, which many sources rank as top-10 worldwide were getting some brand awareness in the US by now, if only at multinational companies. Do you think this is not and will not be the case? I understand there's no clear consensus on the matter (cfr. catgmat in another thread stating LBS and INSEAD are "super well-known in the US job market")

What do you to guys think about applying to Kellogg?

Thanks again.

kwam · Answer

Ciao!

I believe that river have a point here. I live in Portugal and I understand why you're thinking about LBS and INSEAD, but if you really want to go to USA afterwards, then I think you should change for Kellogg and MIT. Another alternative would be Haas, just bear in mind that all these schools are tough to crack.

The People who need to know about BSchools in USA know INSEAD and LBS, but just go to their placement stats and you will see that most of their students end up either in Europe or Asia. When I started thinking about BSchool, even my boss who is a INSEAD graduate advised me to apply to US schools if I had the slightest thought of staying at USA - I could openly talk to him about these things. If you decide to INSEAD try the January intake so that you have the internship period.

riverripper · Answer

If you want to work in the US, I would definitely take Kellogg over Insead or LBS. They are strong brands but I wouldnt take either over a top 15 school if I wanted to work in the US, unless I wanted MC at which point Insead is about as good as it gets.

As for my argument against stanford. Going by the people I know who got dinged and who got in, great candidates who get into top 5 schools with significant scholarships get dinged by stanford. The few people I know who have gotten in have incredible profiles. Terry12 who is our lone Stanford admit is an MD and the others I know are about as ideal profiles as an MBA could have. There is a Wharton resume book somewhere on here, if you search you should be able to find it...and remember that a good portion of Wharton students are people who were dinged by HBS and Stanford. So the caliber of those students are going to be even higher. There is a tuck resume book floating around on here somewhere too, and once again its amazing to see what peoples profiles look like and thats not even considered an ultra elite school.

I am not talking people out of applying to stanford, its like the lottery it would be amazing to get in but few people are going to get in. I tend to think that the huge amount of time each application requires is better spent on schools where you are fairly competitive...especially with applications up big the last few years and I would expect another big increase next year. I would say HBS will have single digit admit rates this year and stanford will be down in the 7 or 8% admit rate. Applications at many of the top schools were up 20% this past year and its a safe bet they will be up that much again.

Steel · Answer

As a Kellogg matriculate, I am biased, but Kellogg is definitely at the top for product/brand management MBA programs. As for tech specific - I know people who just graduated who went into such roles at MSFT, Google, and Facebook and a good friend of mine got an offer from Amazon but ended up turning it down.

As for tech product management, I know that MIT Sloan is also at the top of the list.

As for tech product management, I know that MIT Sloan is also at the top of the list.

mlchang616 · Answer

Hi Steel,

Does Kellogg have a strong Finance department? I've heard so much about Kellogg being a GM and Marketing school. However, Kellogg seems to have really good placements in the investment banking and financial service industries.

Thanks,
-M

maverick2011 · Answer

128-t62139 Scroll down to larzke's post that riverripper quoted about halfway down. It's very informative.

Steel · Answer

Second that. River provides a great rundown of Kellogg's top notch Finance offerings

Paradosso · Answer

Kellogg is definitely added to my list, thanks for your advice guys.

kryzak · Answer

May I ask why Haas is not on your list if you want to do product management at a hi-tech company like Amazon??? :wink:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Haas either, tsk tsk tsk.

Also, Tuck might not get you too far on the West Coast at a tech company than Haas would. Same goes for LBS and INSEAD for any job in the US. Kellogg should DEFINITELY be on your list. I know for SURE that Haas and Kellogg will get you into a top notch internet company for PM job if you work at it. I know quite a few people who got jobs at Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, etc... from those two schools during my research and admit weekend visits. If you have more questions about Haas, feel free to ask or PM me. I think it would be a great fit for your career goals. For HBS and Stanford, I would apply if you want to quash all "what-if" moments later on in life. The others, I would strongly recommend Stanford, Haas, Kellogg, with Tuck/UCLA/Ross as backups (not safeties, but backups - ones with good GM and will get you to your career goals).

fooFighter · Answer

I guess you should also have some good safety schools that fit your requirements. Michigan Ross comes to mind.

kwam · Answer

What? I mentioned...

I'd go with Stanford, Kellogg, Haas and MIT in his situation.

kryzak · Answer

Haha, I stand corrected. My apologies kwam, I only read MIT, but then again, it was 4am my time.

Thank you buddy!

Paradosso · Answer

Kryzak,

I will ask you some questions about Haas, which is hardly known here in Europe. I'm considering MIT as well. I'm not sure I want to add some "safeties" as I might apply next year if I get all dings for fall '09 (which I hope not).

Also, I would not say that all the web companies are West Coast based. Y combinator and 37signals, for one, are companies I very much admire, and they are based in Boston and Chicago.

At this point, I think my chances at Stanford are slim but I have a shot (maybe 30%) at HBS R1, and damn sure I am going to work at it!

kryzak · Answer

paradosso, interesting, since other Europeans (and a future Italian classmate of mine, who's currently in Italy) I speak with all have heard of Haas and its reputation is pretty good there (albeit, not as good as the M7's). I think the "Berkeley MBA" carries more name than "Haas" outside of the US, though.

I did not say all internet companies are on the West Coast, which is why I felt that MIT and Harvard would be a very good choice for product management in tech companies too. But a very large portion of internet companies are started in the Silicon Valley, so one cannot get closer to where the "action" is than Stanford and Berkeley, especially when there is a lot of synergy with two of the top Computer Science/Engineering schools in the nation (the other being MIT).

If you were going to go back to Europe to work, then I would say go for MIT, Kellogg, and of course HBS. But if you want to stay in the US and work for an internet company, I would urge you to spend some time researching Berkeley/Haas, since their name probably stands up there with the best schools for this field, unless you hate the culture...

Finetuning my school list

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