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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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+1 for D.

A. with the result that his army would suffer
B. eventually with his army suffering
C. and as a result, his army eventually would suffer
D. his army eventually suffering --> Correct
Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized,......., he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, his army eventually suffering ...
E. which eventually caused his army to suffer

Hence, D.
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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IMO C:
A: With the result is wrong. Need to attach two independent clauses with something better.
B:Don't like [verb]-ing in it. Suffering is not continuing.
C: Looks fine.
D:Wrong construction. Need a connector after comma. Same problem ab B with Verb-ing
E:Which is modifying posture so wrong.
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
hwo can the ans be D?

the suffering is something that happened later on and in D, it is presented as an ING modifier which needs to be in the same time frame as the main verb.

chetan2u

If this isnt an ING modifier, what sort of modifier is it?
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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Bunuel wrote:
Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but despite having an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's confederates, he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, with the result that his army would suffer a humiliating defeat.


A. with the result that his army would suffer

B. eventually with his army suffering

C. and as a result, his army eventually would suffer

D. his army eventually suffering

E. which eventually caused his army to suffer



rahulkashyap,
few points:-

1) Verb+ing modifier is not related to tense or a time frame. it's role would depend on COMMA
if there is a comma, the modifier tells us about the preceding clause
he worked very hard, ensuring the .....
if there is NO comma, it modifies the preceding noun, as in this case
his army eventually SUFFERING.......
SO the modifier is modifying ARMY here
Then what about : " his army eventually......" here we come to the point two

2) "his army eventually suffering ....." is a NOUN modifier which is modifying the NOUN of the preceding clause..
something like :- his head held high, he walked into the rome.
But here it is not supposed to be acting in that way, because the phrase is the RESULT of preceding clause and is NOT to modify a noun.

For the above reason, although usage of suffering is ok, the choice D itself is wrong

so what should be the OA
C.and as a result, his army eventually would suffer
Now here we are talking of his defensive posture THAT would ultimately result in his defeat..
so WOULD is correctly used to talk of a future of event that si already over..
As a result - conveys the meaning correctly

ans C

Bunuel could you please check OA for typo, it should be C
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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B. eventually with his army suffering
Is B not correct? previous clause action i.e. the defensive posture resulted in the loss?

chetan2u wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but despite having an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's confederates, he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, with the result that his army would suffer a humiliating defeat.


A. with the result that his army would suffer

B. eventually with his army suffering

C. and as a result, his army eventually would suffer

D. his army eventually suffering

E. which eventually caused his army to suffer



rahulkashyap,
few points:-

1) Verb+ing modifier is not related to tense or a time frame. it's role would depend on COMMA
if there is a comma, the modifier tells us about the preceding clause
he worked very hard, ensuring the .....
if there is NO comma, it modifies the preceding noun, as in this case
his army eventually SUFFERING.......
SO the modifier is modifying ARMY here
Then what about : " his army eventually......" here we come to the point two

2) "his army eventually suffering ....." is a NOUN modifier which is modifying the NOUN of the preceding clause..
something like :- his head held high, he walked into the rome.
But here it is not supposed to be acting in that way, because the phrase is the RESULT of preceding clause and is NOT to modify a noun.

For the above reason, although usage of suffering is ok, the choice D itself is wrong

so what should be the OA
C.and as a result, his army eventually would suffer
Now here we are talking of his defensive posture THAT would ultimately result in his defeat..
so WOULD is correctly used to talk of a future of event that si already over..
As a result - conveys the meaning correctly

ans C

Bunuel could you please check OA for typo, it should be C
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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Gmat800Champ wrote:
B. eventually with his army suffering
Is B not correct? previous clause action i.e. the defensive posture resulted in the loss?

chetan2u wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but despite having an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's confederates, he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, with the result that his army would suffer a humiliating defeat.


A. with the result that his army would suffer

B. eventually with his army suffering

C. and as a result, his army eventually would suffer

D. his army eventually suffering

E. which eventually caused his army to suffer



rahulkashyap,
few points:-

1) Verb+ing modifier is not related to tense or a time frame. it's role would depend on COMMA
if there is a comma, the modifier tells us about the preceding clause
he worked very hard, ensuring the .....
if there is NO comma, it modifies the preceding noun, as in this case
his army eventually SUFFERING.......
SO the modifier is modifying ARMY here
Then what about : " his army eventually......" here we come to the point two

2) "his army eventually suffering ....." is a NOUN modifier which is modifying the NOUN of the preceding clause..
something like :- his head held high, he walked into the rome.
But here it is not supposed to be acting in that way, because the phrase is the RESULT of preceding clause and is NOT to modify a noun.

For the above reason, although usage of suffering is ok, the choice D itself is wrong

so what should be the OA
C.and as a result, his army eventually would suffer
Now here we are talking of his defensive posture THAT would ultimately result in his defeat..
so WOULD is correctly used to talk of a future of event that si already over..
As a result - conveys the meaning correctly

ans C

Bunuel could you please check OA for typo, it should be C


Hi..

Reasons for B to be wrong..
1) placement of EVENTUALLY:- eventually should be close to suffering as logically here it should modify suffering. eventually suffering ....
2) second and the main reason is structure - with+noun+participle
There are many instances where this structure is not correct in OG. This structure cannot modify the preceding clause as it does here. It can at themax be used as adding some details on the subject of the main clause.
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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AnkitOrYadav wrote:
@gmatninja,chetan2u, can you please give the reasoning for chosing C.I marked the answer as E,since would in option C was not in right tense according to me


ankit,

WHICH is used to refer to noun but here we are talking of result of entire clause, so E is clearly out

Now for the usage of WOULD

WOULD is past-tense of WILL.
It is used to indicate future of a past event and this future event could also have finished.

now specific to this example

Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but despite having an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's confederates, he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, with the result that his army would suffer a humiliating defeat.

Ofcourse, we could have written the last clause - with....- as a modifier too modifying the previous clause BUT there is no such choice fitting the bill.
and also use of WOULD is justified here. We are talking of two clause joined by BUT and the time we are talking of is When he lost his nerve.....
AND the defeat is thereafter so FUTURE of the event of his losing nerves.- so would is ok

for example
he was born in a poor family, but no one knew that one day he would be a millionaire
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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chetan2u mikemcgarry generis broall VeritasKarishma GMATNinja

Can you please have look at question below:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/gen-joseph-h ... l#p2135008

In wake of this it seems choice D can also be the correct answer...

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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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Harshgmat wrote:
chetan2u mikemcgarry generis broall VeritasKarishma GMATNinja

Can you please have look at question below:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/gen-joseph-h ... l#p2135008

In wake of this it seems choice D can also be the correct answer...

gvij2017

Harshgmat , I agree. Nice catch.
We have two slightly different versions of this question.
The version on this thread is introduced in green typeface.
The version on the other thread is introduced in blue typeface.I think that this version of the question has two answers, C and D.

I think this version of the question has two answers: C and D
The word "eventually" in option (D) signals the correct logical sequence.

• The (D) options in both questions are identical.
The other question has a long explanation, some of which is quoted below. D is the answer to the other question.

(C) in the other question is slightly different from this thread's (C)
(C) in the other thread is clearly wrong. No question.

On THIS topic thread, I see no reason to prefer C over D.

True, participial modifiers do not carry tense, but "his army eventually suffering" indicates the future.
Hooker's loss of nerve and choice of defensive posture caused his army eventually to suffer.

The other thread's version of the question, HERE is:
aragonn wrote:
Gen. Joseph Hooker initially had seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, and he had had an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's Confederates, but having lost his nerves, he had settled into a more defensive posture, and his army eventually was suffering a humiliating defeat.

A. Hooker initially had seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, and he had had an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's Confederates, but having lost his nerves, he had settled into a more defensive posture, and his army eventually was suffering

B. Hooker at the Battle of Chancellorsville seized initially the advantage, and he had an army twice as big as Gen. Lee's Confederates, but his nerves were lost, and he settled into a more defensive posture, and his army eventually would suffer

C. Hooker, initially seizing the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, had an army twice as big as Gen. Lee's Confederates, and he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, so that his army eventually would suffer (different from this thread's version, and in this version, incorrect)

D. Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but despite having an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's Confederates, he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, his army eventually suffering

E. Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville and he had an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's Confederates, but despite this, he lost his nerve, settling into a more defensive posture, and his army eventually suffered

Between C and D: Official explanation BY MIKE MCGARRY for the question from the other thread
Quote:
Choice (C): What most striking about this version is the lack of contrast. We are told that Hooker “seized the advantage” and he had an army “twice the size” of his enemy’s army—these fact suggest things were going very well for him. Then the word “and,” and we are told that he lost his nerve and lost the battle. Wait! That’s a huge turnaround, and we never had a contrast word. If the “and” before “he lost his nerve” had been a “but,” this version would be better, but it’s too illogical without a proper contrast work. Finally, the phrasing of the last clause suggest that it was Hooker's purpose to make his army lose the battle—that's also illogical! This version is incorrect.

Choice (D): this version sets up appropriate logical contrasts that mirror the content. The end of this sentence is an absolute phrase, a perfectly correct structure.



The version of the question on THIS thread
Bunuel wrote:
Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville, but despite having an army twice the size of Gen. Lee's confederates, he lost his nerve and settled into a more defensive posture, with the result that his army would suffer a humiliating defeat.

A. with the result that his army would suffer

B. eventually with his army suffering

C. and as a result, his army eventually would suffer (not the same as the other option C)

D. his army eventually suffering

E. which eventually caused his army to suffer



Quote:
The focus of the sentence is what we might call the "set-up" or initial phases of the Battle of Chancellorsville. (BTW, that entire Wikipedia article would be an excellent example of something you could read for practice!!) The time period on which the sentence focuses is the beginning of this battle, so from that perspective, the end of the battle would be something in the future. If a "fortune teller" had met Gen. Hooker at the beginning of the battle, this fortune teller might have told him "Your army will suffer a humiliating defeat." From that particular time, the defeat would have been in the future. Since the time on which the sentence is focused is in the past, the future of that past event, which is now another past event, is denoted with "would."

Something appears to be wrong.

This version could be the edited version of the other thread's question.
Maybe the word "eventually" was supposed to have been removed from option D for this thread's version.

MagooshExpert , would you please have a look at the two versions of this question?

Once again, the full OE for the other question in which D is identical to this D and correct in that answer HERE

If option C is a better answer than option D for this thread's version of the question,
would you please explain why?

GMATNinja or GMATNinja2 -- thoughts?
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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generis wrote:
MagooshExpert , would you please have a look at the two versions of this question?

Once again, the full OE for the other question in which D is identical to this D and correct in that answer HERE

If option C is a better answer than option D for this thread's version of the question,
would you please explain why?

GMATNinja or GMATNinja2 -- thoughts?

Hi generis,

I'm sorry about all of the confusion surrounding this question! The original version of this question was flawed, and has since been modified. A corrected version of this question, as well as a full explanation, can be found HERE. Please refer to that version and explanation instead :)

I hope that helps! :)
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
E: I thought which can be used to refer the whole sentence ahead of it, but GMAT doesn't like that. I guess as it is confusing if the sentence ends with noun.

Incorrect:
Vacation is coming soon, which is nice. (What is nice, the vacation or the fact that it is coming soon?)

Sort of Okay to use which:

The movie turned out to be a blockbuster hit, which came as a surprise to critics.

My friend eventually decided to get divorced, which upset me a lot.
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
GMATNinja

Can you please explain the use of 'with the result that' as compared to the use of 'as a result'. I am not sure if this is the reason for eliminating A. To me, A looks similar to C (except that the word 'eventually' is missing in A).

In another question, OA is B which uses the phrase with the result that

https://gmatclub.com/forum/because-the-body-adapts-more-readily-to-lengthened-days-than-to-shorte-216678.html
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
The intended meaning of this question is so confusing.
I opted for E, but the OA is C
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
Eventually ? As a result ?
No repetition?

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
I'm not sure I completely agree with Mike's explanation. Because if the timing was set in the initial stage, hinted by "initically", then it should be "Gen. Joseph Hooker HAD initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville,". But all of the verbs in the sentense are in the same simple past tense, so "would" just seems very abrupt and introduced by no cue.

I pick E. "The defensive posture caused the defeat", makes perfect sense.
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Re: Gen. Joseph Hooker initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Cha [#permalink]
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Julie725 wrote:
I'm not sure I completely agree with Mike's explanation. Because if the timing was set in the initial stage, hinted by "initically", then it should be "Gen. Joseph Hooker HAD initially seized the advantage at the Battle of Chancellorsville,". But all of the verbs in the sentense are in the same simple past tense, so "would" just seems very abrupt and introduced by no cue.

I pick E. "The defensive posture caused the defeat", makes perfect sense.


Hello Julie725,

We hope this finds you well.

To clarify, "would" is also used to refer to a past action from a point in time further in the past; for example, "When I left, I did not realize I would be late."

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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