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Updated on: 19 May 2015, 03:13
Originally posted by ebolamonkey on 11 May 2015, 22:10.
Last edited by ebolamonkey on 19 May 2015, 03:13, edited 2 times in total.
Last edited by ebolamonkey on 19 May 2015, 03:13, edited 2 times in total.
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This is my first and last post so I will make it quick. Just finished a wonderful 3 hours of starring at the screen. I guess according to the verbal score I am illiterate. IR section was easy and I got a 7 guessing the last three questions since I was calculating most things by hand before realizing I had a calculator function. The essay hasn't been graded but it was on some annual report made by a food company claiming that reduction in processing of food cost is correlated to the same reduction of cost in the film processing industry.
Q49 is considered now 79 percentile and V26 is 43 percentile. Coupled with a low undergrad gpa I don't see the point of attending an MBA program anymore. I fail to see how spending countless hours correcting sentences or improving my "flawed" reading comprehension would somehow elevate me to academic stardom. This exam, thankfully, is free paid for by DANTES and I don't intend to spend another $250 to find out what I already confirmed with this exam. SAT, ACT, GRE, and now this is in line with what I will get on any standardized exam. Not everyone was intended for academics and I am part of those who are not academical by nature or practice.
This isn't the typical glowing GMAT club style ostentatious from rags to riches MBA score post as it is more akin to what majority of the non-99 percentile people experience. Can I get a higher score? Sure. Is it worth my time? No. I've already spent quite a bit of time messing with this exam, about four months studying on and off, to know what I already know. If you need a number in your life to make you happy be it your salary, test score, gpa, etc then please continue with your pursuit. For others, life is beyond just a number and some have proven to be able to accomplish things without being accepted into the good old boy's club of top schools. You make "a lot" of money and someone makes more, you think you are smart and some one is smarter. What's the point?
This is just classic market making for preparation course material and exam makers. As proven by many on here, given sufficient time, most can go from rags to riches on a predictable, trainable, exam process with varying levels of effort and time committed. Where's the creativity or productivity in any of this? Preparing for an exam does not change your fundamental intelligence level as someone who cake walks this exam with a perfect score will always be more intelligent than someone who took years to scratch 700. This is like saying you finished a Marathon, which is a great accomplishment, but you are five years late to the finish line.
Back to the debrief. Does it help reading the Economist or other prominent sources of literature? Maybe I am dyslexic but I would say no because I don't read for sentence structure, style, grammar, or the like. I read simply to understand without picking up on any of the latter in my 20+ years of reading. On average, I read about 3-5 hours a day from various sources for more than a decade. This hasn't helped in the slighted for this exam. If you are not good with math then that is a easy fix. I don't care which sentence sounds better so long as I get what the author is trying to say with no appreciation for the this emphasized by GMAC. I've never read on an "adult" level and I never will because it is neither interesting nor rewarding as I could spend days attempting to enjoy a rather complex book or go work on a car or to the gym which yields tangible results. With the exception of the IR Section where I ran out of time the other sections I finished with 5-7mins to spare. This was done without any focus on working with "timing" for any of the practice exams I took. I actually only did one practice exam and it was with GMAC's program. The other practice exam on there had all the questions from the practice problems. Seeing that it is unfair to take a practice exam with all the questions you have seen I didn't bother completing the Verbal portion of Practice exam 2. I guess the test goes fast in the verbal section when you have no idea what the 'best' answer is or what the exam makers want you to choose.
This put the nail in the coffin on my academic career and I have no regrets not attaining another Masters to learn something that can be otherwise learned for a fraction of the cost on the internet. MBA is purely for networking if you get in the top 5/10 programs. If you don't have a free ride, i.e. GI Bill, then the ROI on rest of the degrees are not worth the extra effort. If your not smart, no amount of education can make you smart, and there is no way to compete with kids who are just naturally smarter than you given that everyone works hard and smart and no one has a distinct advantage on utilizing some superior tactics in their scholarly approach. Considering that Floyd Mayweather made well over 100 times of the average lifetime salary of a typical MBA graduate from a "top" university, should those with low GMAT scores pick up boxing or MMA instead? I'm pretty sure the money spent on martial arts lessons or a gym membership will pay more dividends than paying the meter for eventually getting a 700s score required for self-esteem and admissions purposes.
Skip the MBA, GMAT, and enjoy life without spending countless hours wondering why they want you to think you're an idiot but have all the right solutions to fix you up or trying to prove them wrong. In the end the only person that loses out is yourself since you will never get that time back chasing after the wind.
**Update: Q49 is not high quant anymore since it is only 79 percentile. Q50 is probably "low" or will be low in a few years due to the saturation of "high" Quant scores.
Q49 is considered now 79 percentile and V26 is 43 percentile. Coupled with a low undergrad gpa I don't see the point of attending an MBA program anymore. I fail to see how spending countless hours correcting sentences or improving my "flawed" reading comprehension would somehow elevate me to academic stardom. This exam, thankfully, is free paid for by DANTES and I don't intend to spend another $250 to find out what I already confirmed with this exam. SAT, ACT, GRE, and now this is in line with what I will get on any standardized exam. Not everyone was intended for academics and I am part of those who are not academical by nature or practice.
This isn't the typical glowing GMAT club style ostentatious from rags to riches MBA score post as it is more akin to what majority of the non-99 percentile people experience. Can I get a higher score? Sure. Is it worth my time? No. I've already spent quite a bit of time messing with this exam, about four months studying on and off, to know what I already know. If you need a number in your life to make you happy be it your salary, test score, gpa, etc then please continue with your pursuit. For others, life is beyond just a number and some have proven to be able to accomplish things without being accepted into the good old boy's club of top schools. You make "a lot" of money and someone makes more, you think you are smart and some one is smarter. What's the point?
This is just classic market making for preparation course material and exam makers. As proven by many on here, given sufficient time, most can go from rags to riches on a predictable, trainable, exam process with varying levels of effort and time committed. Where's the creativity or productivity in any of this? Preparing for an exam does not change your fundamental intelligence level as someone who cake walks this exam with a perfect score will always be more intelligent than someone who took years to scratch 700. This is like saying you finished a Marathon, which is a great accomplishment, but you are five years late to the finish line.
Back to the debrief. Does it help reading the Economist or other prominent sources of literature? Maybe I am dyslexic but I would say no because I don't read for sentence structure, style, grammar, or the like. I read simply to understand without picking up on any of the latter in my 20+ years of reading. On average, I read about 3-5 hours a day from various sources for more than a decade. This hasn't helped in the slighted for this exam. If you are not good with math then that is a easy fix. I don't care which sentence sounds better so long as I get what the author is trying to say with no appreciation for the this emphasized by GMAC. I've never read on an "adult" level and I never will because it is neither interesting nor rewarding as I could spend days attempting to enjoy a rather complex book or go work on a car or to the gym which yields tangible results. With the exception of the IR Section where I ran out of time the other sections I finished with 5-7mins to spare. This was done without any focus on working with "timing" for any of the practice exams I took. I actually only did one practice exam and it was with GMAC's program. The other practice exam on there had all the questions from the practice problems. Seeing that it is unfair to take a practice exam with all the questions you have seen I didn't bother completing the Verbal portion of Practice exam 2. I guess the test goes fast in the verbal section when you have no idea what the 'best' answer is or what the exam makers want you to choose.
This put the nail in the coffin on my academic career and I have no regrets not attaining another Masters to learn something that can be otherwise learned for a fraction of the cost on the internet. MBA is purely for networking if you get in the top 5/10 programs. If you don't have a free ride, i.e. GI Bill, then the ROI on rest of the degrees are not worth the extra effort. If your not smart, no amount of education can make you smart, and there is no way to compete with kids who are just naturally smarter than you given that everyone works hard and smart and no one has a distinct advantage on utilizing some superior tactics in their scholarly approach. Considering that Floyd Mayweather made well over 100 times of the average lifetime salary of a typical MBA graduate from a "top" university, should those with low GMAT scores pick up boxing or MMA instead? I'm pretty sure the money spent on martial arts lessons or a gym membership will pay more dividends than paying the meter for eventually getting a 700s score required for self-esteem and admissions purposes.
Skip the MBA, GMAT, and enjoy life without spending countless hours wondering why they want you to think you're an idiot but have all the right solutions to fix you up or trying to prove them wrong. In the end the only person that loses out is yourself since you will never get that time back chasing after the wind.
**Update: Q49 is not high quant anymore since it is only 79 percentile. Q50 is probably "low" or will be low in a few years due to the saturation of "high" Quant scores.
12 May 2015, 00:30
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Considering the amazing piece of writing you just did in your post, it is hard to believe that you did not score better than 26 in Verbal.
By the way, I read somewhere that GMAT is an indicator of "academic potential" and not "smartness" (intelligence). So, you are right in that respect that getting a good GMAT score does not prove that one is smart; similarly, not getting a great score does not prove that one is not smart.
I am not aware of any studies, which prove a correlation between smartness and academic potential. While this gets into the realm of statistics, I somehow believe that there would be some correlation. Obviously outliers exist everywhere (dumb people with great academic potential, and very smart people with no academic potential).
However, studies do confirm that people with degrees from good b-schools have a better chance of professionally doing well in their careers. This translates to better salaries, and perhaps more promotions. Whether better salaries and more promotions really matter, is a subject of personal choice.
For you, it seems these things don't matter (as is evident when you say: life is beyond just a number); for most others, these things do matter, and so, exams such as GMAT continue to be important for many. There is no right or wrong here; just personal choice.
By the way, I read somewhere that GMAT is an indicator of "academic potential" and not "smartness" (intelligence). So, you are right in that respect that getting a good GMAT score does not prove that one is smart; similarly, not getting a great score does not prove that one is not smart.
I am not aware of any studies, which prove a correlation between smartness and academic potential. While this gets into the realm of statistics, I somehow believe that there would be some correlation. Obviously outliers exist everywhere (dumb people with great academic potential, and very smart people with no academic potential).
However, studies do confirm that people with degrees from good b-schools have a better chance of professionally doing well in their careers. This translates to better salaries, and perhaps more promotions. Whether better salaries and more promotions really matter, is a subject of personal choice.
For you, it seems these things don't matter (as is evident when you say: life is beyond just a number); for most others, these things do matter, and so, exams such as GMAT continue to be important for many. There is no right or wrong here; just personal choice.
12 May 2015, 03:09
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Your sarcasm is appreciated. Repeated standardized testing has proven what is already accepted as fact to me indicating I have no academic potential. This is also verified by years of what I feel meaningless education in the traditional academic institutions.
You brought up a quite interesting point in the last paragraph. How do you assess value? There are ever more people in the world and with the workforce being automated away or outsourced, even the countries that are being outsourced to are outsourcing their labor, how do you assign a number to a person if you even choose to hire them? Education is one of the most inflated industries in the past decade with soaring tuition expenses and on the flip side have the salaries risen at the same rate? If one actually trust the numbers published by the BLS then one is lead to believe that we are bouncing back from the 2007/8 incident. In all actuality, with the industry ever pondering over the hike in interest rate, the global economic situation is rather bleak. We're actually not supposed to be working this much anyways from the advances in modern technology as the forefathers of Economics predicted that we wouldn't be working at all right now.
You are suggesting that in order to achieve some level of "success" in life, one needs to obtain a substantial wealth. As a stepping stone, historically speaking, those with MBAs are able to attain this path to success. How many pyramids do the Pharaohs of the modern day wish to erect after they depart this life? You could be a seven time world Champion in Formula 1 or a famous comedian/actor and then due to a slight fall on a ski trip or a clinical case of depression you are reduced to a vegetable or decide to take your own life. Both embody the qualities that would list them as successful figures in the Western society yet where are they now and what of their wealth?
Not everything can be explained so easily in life. Is this test difficult because I am stupid or is it because I lack the effort to ace a stupid test? There does exist a natural limit, as you have pointed out, for each individual for any activity. This preparation for most is an artificial inflation of their "academic potential" which gives a false feedback in deluding the test taker in believing they have a higher than normal academic potential.
Let me elude to my example of the Marathon once more to further explain my point. Given the answer book/solution all students can figure out the problem. Not all students can figure out the problem without any prior training nor can they figure out new problems in the same time. In the real world, not all problems have solutions nor are they this straight forward where some simply multiple choice strategies can facilitate not knowing the answer but being correct from elimination. All people can train for Marathons regardless of their age, gender, nationality, or health condition. However, some have died from running them because of pre-existing conditions or some other cause of sudden death. A lot of people run this race and do so consistently until they are injured from over training by running their joints to exhaustion while others can race well into their twilight years. Some are born natural runners with great athletic and aerobic capabilities (born to run), others athletic but born sprinters (Bolt), and lastly some born who cannot run due to some pre-existing conditions. Much like the GMAT, a Marathon is a gauge of the overall fitness of the participant and their endurance abilities. If you know you have a pre-existing condition or you simply have no athletic abilities why would you want to risk death to train for a marathon? Some call this bravery but others call it foolish. Of course, just like the GMAT, there are coaches for Marathons and running clubs (like GMAT club) where people encourage each other to train or whatever. No amount of encouragement or hardwork is going to help a naturally disadvantaged racer to win a race when competing against those with more innate talent.
Those who artificially trained up to 700s go up against kids who spent very little time on getting the same score. Likewise, it is going to be the same arrogant students that can go out and have a life while the students who are just 'normal' struggle with assignments trying to catch up. I've seen this way too much at a top Engineering school and found little meaning in being cannon fodder for those 'talented' individuals to get their good grades. After six years of academic jolly for a BS/MS plus the years prior to that have served as more than sufficient proof that this isn't the right game for me. The only winners here are market makers (tutoring services, etc) , brokerage firms that ate up commission (tuition), and the other individuals (arrogant smart kids) that profited from my academic loses on the bell curve.
Life is a game of attrition and a zero sum game. For every winner out there you have many losers and yet we are lead to believe that we all can be winners. It is full of contradictions and paradoxes unexplained by living the 'normal' life. If you spend your whole life training for a race that you were never intended to run how are you supposed to find out what you are supposed to be good at? How does this test assess business potential or the skills required to succeed in business? is there a direct correlation between networth and the GMAT score of MBA students?
It's better to admit that you don't have what it takes to succeed in certain things than to spend rest of your life validating that assumption. Life is short, why spend it in misery in pursuit of things that only bring more misery? For those who think improving a number is the fix-all for problems in life perhaps getting an 800, 4.0 GPA from a top school, and a 9 figure (USD) annual salary is the way to go. Someone out there is doing it and if you're not first you're last.
You brought up a quite interesting point in the last paragraph. How do you assess value? There are ever more people in the world and with the workforce being automated away or outsourced, even the countries that are being outsourced to are outsourcing their labor, how do you assign a number to a person if you even choose to hire them? Education is one of the most inflated industries in the past decade with soaring tuition expenses and on the flip side have the salaries risen at the same rate? If one actually trust the numbers published by the BLS then one is lead to believe that we are bouncing back from the 2007/8 incident. In all actuality, with the industry ever pondering over the hike in interest rate, the global economic situation is rather bleak. We're actually not supposed to be working this much anyways from the advances in modern technology as the forefathers of Economics predicted that we wouldn't be working at all right now.
You are suggesting that in order to achieve some level of "success" in life, one needs to obtain a substantial wealth. As a stepping stone, historically speaking, those with MBAs are able to attain this path to success. How many pyramids do the Pharaohs of the modern day wish to erect after they depart this life? You could be a seven time world Champion in Formula 1 or a famous comedian/actor and then due to a slight fall on a ski trip or a clinical case of depression you are reduced to a vegetable or decide to take your own life. Both embody the qualities that would list them as successful figures in the Western society yet where are they now and what of their wealth?
Not everything can be explained so easily in life. Is this test difficult because I am stupid or is it because I lack the effort to ace a stupid test? There does exist a natural limit, as you have pointed out, for each individual for any activity. This preparation for most is an artificial inflation of their "academic potential" which gives a false feedback in deluding the test taker in believing they have a higher than normal academic potential.
Let me elude to my example of the Marathon once more to further explain my point. Given the answer book/solution all students can figure out the problem. Not all students can figure out the problem without any prior training nor can they figure out new problems in the same time. In the real world, not all problems have solutions nor are they this straight forward where some simply multiple choice strategies can facilitate not knowing the answer but being correct from elimination. All people can train for Marathons regardless of their age, gender, nationality, or health condition. However, some have died from running them because of pre-existing conditions or some other cause of sudden death. A lot of people run this race and do so consistently until they are injured from over training by running their joints to exhaustion while others can race well into their twilight years. Some are born natural runners with great athletic and aerobic capabilities (born to run), others athletic but born sprinters (Bolt), and lastly some born who cannot run due to some pre-existing conditions. Much like the GMAT, a Marathon is a gauge of the overall fitness of the participant and their endurance abilities. If you know you have a pre-existing condition or you simply have no athletic abilities why would you want to risk death to train for a marathon? Some call this bravery but others call it foolish. Of course, just like the GMAT, there are coaches for Marathons and running clubs (like GMAT club) where people encourage each other to train or whatever. No amount of encouragement or hardwork is going to help a naturally disadvantaged racer to win a race when competing against those with more innate talent.
Those who artificially trained up to 700s go up against kids who spent very little time on getting the same score. Likewise, it is going to be the same arrogant students that can go out and have a life while the students who are just 'normal' struggle with assignments trying to catch up. I've seen this way too much at a top Engineering school and found little meaning in being cannon fodder for those 'talented' individuals to get their good grades. After six years of academic jolly for a BS/MS plus the years prior to that have served as more than sufficient proof that this isn't the right game for me. The only winners here are market makers (tutoring services, etc) , brokerage firms that ate up commission (tuition), and the other individuals (arrogant smart kids) that profited from my academic loses on the bell curve.
Life is a game of attrition and a zero sum game. For every winner out there you have many losers and yet we are lead to believe that we all can be winners. It is full of contradictions and paradoxes unexplained by living the 'normal' life. If you spend your whole life training for a race that you were never intended to run how are you supposed to find out what you are supposed to be good at? How does this test assess business potential or the skills required to succeed in business? is there a direct correlation between networth and the GMAT score of MBA students?
It's better to admit that you don't have what it takes to succeed in certain things than to spend rest of your life validating that assumption. Life is short, why spend it in misery in pursuit of things that only bring more misery? For those who think improving a number is the fix-all for problems in life perhaps getting an 800, 4.0 GPA from a top school, and a 9 figure (USD) annual salary is the way to go. Someone out there is doing it and if you're not first you're last.
