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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41

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Syavashp
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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 09:15
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Hello everyone,

I'd really appreciate some help / guidance as I am facing a very weird issue with my score.

Background:

I first gave my GMAT in 2017 (right out of university) and received a 680 on the test day (First and only attempt so far). I did really well on the verbal section compared to the quant section. I do not remember my sectional scores but I believe it was something like V40 (and my math score was in the 40th percentile).

Current situation:

I've spent 9 weeks preparing for the GMAT so far. I picked up the EGMAT course and used around 7 of my 9 weeks doing the quant course and found that to be very useful. I'm still in the process of finalizing my prep for that but should get a Q47+ (which is a big deal for me since I always struggled at math; I loved math as a kid but had really bad teachers and lost interest in the subject overtime and avoided it like the plague).

I've spent 2 weeks doing the EGMAT verbal course and then doing around 50% of the 700+ level questions on GMAT Club (GC) and my accuracy is around 80% across CR, SC, RC. I have not done the 600 level questions on GC as I had 100% accuracy on the medium level questions on EGMAT's scholaranium.

I just gave my first verbal CAT to establish a baseline before further prep and received a V41 (95th percentile). This is the free verbal CAT that is available on GMAT Club's website. A summary of my performance is shown below:



I was able to complete the questions within the time limit and did not face any sort of time pressure. I was at the last 2 questions with 6 minutes left and attempted those two questions at a slower pace so time is not an issue. I believe I saved considerable time reading the RC passages (I read alot on a daily basis).

My main problem is that out of 8 questions that I got incorrect, 6 were due to VERY stupid mistakes such as not reading the passage or answer carefully. I also feel like I get stuck on trying to find the best possible answer. I also have a tendency to decide on an answer (in my head) and then I subconciously do not pay enough attention to the remaining answer choices and this is a huge problem for me.

I would appreciate any tips on how I can improve on this as I would really like to get my Verbal performance up to V44 in the mocks, so I can comfortably score atleast a V42 under exam conditions.

My final question would be how reliable the GC Verbal CAT is? I used the official GMAT mocks in my 2017 attempt and they were 50 points off from my actual score (and this seems to be a common complaint with GMAC's mocks). How reliable are GC mocks compared to actual exam performance?
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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 09:34
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Syavashp wrote:
My final question would be how reliable the GC Verbal CAT is? I used the official GMAT mocks in my 2017 attempt and they were 50 points off from my actual score (and this seems to be a common complaint with GMAC's mocks). How reliable are GC mocks compared to actual exam performance?

The GMAC mocks are pretty accurate. If your score was 50 points lower on the real thing, it's likely that something about how you prepared resulted in your being better prepared for the official practice tests than for the real thing. This type of outcome is common since so much that said about the GMAT is based on what people have seen in the official practice tests.

Quote:
My main problem is that out of 8 questions that I got incorrect, 6 were due to VERY stupid mistakes such as not reading the passage or answer carefully. I also feel like I get stuck on trying to find the best possible answer. I also have a tendency to decide on an answer (in my head) and then I subconciously do not pay enough attention to the remaining answer choices and this is a huge problem for me.

I think you could address these issues by shooting for higher accuracy in practice.

You could practice with both 600- and 700-level questions and shoot for close to 100 percent accuracy AND streaks of 20 questions correct in a row. If you can get questions correct in streaks of 20 or more, you should be set.

See this post for more on how to practice by using the streaks method.

The Best GMAT Practice Methods

Also, this video could be helpful.


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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 09:43
Scoring a V41 is in itself an achievement.

You could solve practice questions of 600 and 700 difficulty levels using the Forum Quiz.

All the Best.
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 10:31
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
Syavashp wrote:
My final question would be how reliable the GC Verbal CAT is? I used the official GMAT mocks in my 2017 attempt and they were 50 points off from my actual score (and this seems to be a common complaint with GMAC's mocks). How reliable are GC mocks compared to actual exam performance?

The GMAC mocks are pretty accurate. If your score was 50 points lower on the real thing, it's likely that something about how you prepared resulted in your being better prepared for the official practice tests than for the real thing. This type of outcome is common since so much that said about the GMAT is based on what people have seen in the official practice tests.

Quote:
My main problem is that out of 8 questions that I got incorrect, 6 were due to VERY stupid mistakes such as not reading the passage or answer carefully. I also feel like I get stuck on trying to find the best possible answer. I also have a tendency to decide on an answer (in my head) and then I subconciously do not pay enough attention to the remaining answer choices and this is a huge problem for me.

I think you could address these issues by shooting for higher accuracy in practice.

You could practice with both 600- and 700-level questions and shoot for close to 100 percent accuracy AND streaks of 20 questions correct in a row. If you can get questions correct in streaks of 20 or more, you should be set.

See this post for more on how to practice by using the streaks method.

The Best GMAT Practice Methods

Also, this video could be helpful.



Thank you Marty, I went through the video and the article and found them to be very useful. I have been doing most of my practice in a timed setting and will try out the streak method in an untimed setting and see how it goes.

Will report back!
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 10:32
pintukr wrote:
Scoring a V41 is in itself an achievement.

You could solve practice questions of 600 and 700 difficulty levels using the Forum Quiz.

All the Best.


Thank you!
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 12:16
Quote:
I would appreciate any tips on how I can improve on this as I would really like to get my Verbal performance up to V44 in the mocks, so I can comfortably score atleast a V42 under exam conditions.


If you feel your fundamentals are solid, consider working on your solving approach. May boost your score a bit. Had a retake student who went from a v41 to a v45 in less than 2 weeks so this doesn't necessarily have to take very long. Perhaps work with a study buddy who does really well on the section.

5 Verbal tips
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 13:04
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Hi Syavashp,

If you took your first Official GMAT in 2017, then you took the prior, longer version of the Exam. That 680 (with a V41) shows that you had (and appear to currently still have) strong overall critical-thinking skills - which is great! Depending on which Schools/Programs you plan to apply to though, your overall applications would likely benefit more from improving your Quant Scaled Score than by picking up those additional points in the Verbal section.

The scoring algorithm on the Official GMAT is far more complicated than most people realize. Since that algorithm is proprietary, no GMAT company has an exact match for it, thus CAT scores can vary a bit based on the 'biases' involved in their respective designs. The most realistic CATs available are the 6 from GMAC (the 2 free CATs, and each of the 2 that come with Exam Pack 1 and Exam Pack 2), but retaking a CAT that you've already taken is NOT a realistic way to assess your skills - since you will likely see some 'repeat' questions that you have already faced. Unfortunately, seeing even a couple of repeats can 'throw off' the Scoring Algorithm and impact your pacing, energy levels, fatigue, etc. (meaning that they would likely all appear to be better than they actually are). In addition, taking CATs/mocks in a way that does not properly match-up with how you take the Official GMAT can cause similar effects to your score restuls. Thankfully, the CATs from Kaplan and MGMAT are all 'close enough' to the real thing that they will provide you with a relatively realistic score assessment (assuming that you correctly take the CAT in a realistic fashion).

Before I can offer you any additional advice for your studies, it would help if you could provide a bit more information on how you've been studying recently and your goals:

Studies:
1) Over the last 9 weeks, how many hours did you typically study each week?
2) Have you used any other study materials besides the course that you mentioned? What “brands” of CATs/mocks have you used?
3) On what dates (or approximate dates) did you take EACH of your CATs/mocks and how did you score on EACH (including the Quant and Verbal Scaled Scores for EACH)?

Goals:
4) What is your overall goal score?
5) When are you planning to take the GMAT?
6) When are you planning to apply to Business School and what Schools are you planning to apply to?

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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  06 May 2023, 14:21
EMPOWERgmatRichC wrote:
Hi Syavashp,

If you took your first Official GMAT in 2017, then you took the prior, longer version of the Exam. That 680 (with a V41) shows that you had (and appear to currently still have) strong overall critical-thinking skills - which is great! Depending on which Schools/Programs you plan to apply to though, your overall applications would likely benefit more from improving your Quant Scaled Score than by picking up those additional points in the Verbal section.

Hello there! The first time I gave the exam, it was a rather half hearted attempt. I used GMAT Pill however I am not sure how much it helped. I was not really trying to get the maximum score possible and therefore did not study as well as I could have. I was also bad at maths, which is ironic given that I have a Bsc in Finance and work in asset management (so I am good with numbers!). As I mentioned earlier, I ran away from maths due to unfortunate experiences with bad math teachers in high school and that kind of snowballed overtime into an aversion to mathematics.

Before I can offer you any additional advice for your studies, it would help if you could provide a bit more information on how you've been studying recently and your goals:

Studies:
1) Over the last 9 weeks, how many hours did you typically study each week?

I got the EGMAT course because I decided to finally fix my weak math foundations once and for all. I spent around 5 hours a day doing the EGMAT course and the associated practice drills and cementing quizzes. EGMAT says that if you get 50%+ on three consecutive hard cementing quizzes, you should be at or above the 70th percentile and I have gotten to that point. I have not attempted any Quant CATs or full length mocks yet as I want to fix some issues with the Quant prep before I go into doing the CATs. (I'm spending an inordinate amount of time on concepts rather than endlessly practicing questions and this approach has been helpful)


2) Have you used any other study materials besides the course that you mentioned? What “brands” of CATs/mocks have you used?

I used the Foundations of Math (embarrased to say that I did need it!) and All the Quant by MGMAT but mostly I used the EGMAT course.
I have not used any CATS/mocks other than the 1 verbal mock that I just did.

3) On what dates (or approximate dates) did you take EACH of your CATs/mocks and how did you score on EACH (including the Quant and Verbal Scaled Scores for EACH)?

Today, V41 on the verbal CAT.

Goals:
4) What is your overall goal score?

I want to score the maximum possible ofcourse however I think a 730 would be sufficient. Cambridge and LBS have an average score of 690 and 710-720 respectively. A higher score would potentially increase chances of getting a scholarship so I plan on putting in the extra effort.

5) When are you planning to take the GMAT?

I have not decided on a date. I am focusing on mastering the material before I choose a date but I would want to get this wrapped up before July.

6) When are you planning to apply to Business School and what Schools are you planning to apply to?

I am planning on applying for the 2024 intake. Applications open by September/October. I will be applying to Cambridge and LBS for their MFin or MBA (I have not decided on the exact program yet). My backup schools would be Oxford, LSE, Imperial however these schools offer pre-experience Mfin programs and I am really trying to avoid that.

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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  07 May 2023, 14:14
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Hi Syavashp,

Since you're interested in applying to some highly-competitive Schools, you would likely find it beneficial to speak with an Admissions Expert about your overall profile and plans. Those Experts should be able to answer your Admissions questions and help define the specific areas of your profile that could use some improvement (and the more time that you have to act on that advice, the better). There's a Forum full of those Experts here:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/ask-admissio ... tants-124/

I've also sent you a PM with some additional notes.

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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  09 May 2023, 04:49
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Hi Syavashp,

I have an important question. Why don't you take an official GMAC practice exam to get a more accurate baseline score?
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  11 May 2023, 00:29
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Syavashp wrote:
I would appreciate any tips on how I can improve on this as I would really like to get my Verbal performance up to V44 in the mocks, so I can comfortably score atleast a V42 under exam conditions.

Hi Syavashp,

You could take an official practice test to check how close you are to your target score. If you get a score like the V40 (90%) you got on the actual GMAT, you most likely don't have any major gaps in your prep.
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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  27 May 2023, 11:14
ScottTargetTestPrep wrote:
Hi Syavashp,

I have an important question. Why don't you take an official GMAC practice exam to get a more accurate baseline score?




Here is the result of my first mock.

Based on this, should I just give one or two more mocks and give the exam?

How much lower can the actual test result be/ is this mock accurate.

I've also heard that Practice Test 2 is harder than Practice Test 1, is this true? (I have given Practice Test 1)
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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  27 May 2023, 11:20
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Nice performance. Fair to say two consecutive fresh Official Mocks that hit your target score would be a positive sign of hitting something similar on an actual exam.
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  28 May 2023, 14:13
GmatTutorKnight wrote:
Nice performance. Fair to say two consecutive fresh Official Mocks that hit your target score would be a positive sign of hitting something similar on an actual exam.


Thanks.

I am targeting UK schools like LBS/Cambridge so I don't really need an elite score (though it would be nice to have one!).

I gave the second mock and scored 720, Q49 V38. I was quite under the weather which affected my performance and I got a bunch of medium level verbal questions incorrect :/

Nevertheless, I've scheduled an exam on June 1st. In the meantime are there any Verbal CATs that I can do for some final practice? So far my scores on Verbal are V44 (680 attempt in 2017), V41 on the GC Verbal CAT (the free one) and then V45 and V41 on the two official practice tests respectively.
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  28 May 2023, 14:15
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
Syavashp wrote:
My final question would be how reliable the GC Verbal CAT is? I used the official GMAT mocks in my 2017 attempt and they were 50 points off from my actual score (and this seems to be a common complaint with GMAC's mocks). How reliable are GC mocks compared to actual exam performance?

The GMAC mocks are pretty accurate. If your score was 50 points lower on the real thing, it's likely that something about how you prepared resulted in your being better prepared for the official practice tests than for the real thing. This type of outcome is common since so much that said about the GMAT is based on what people have seen in the official practice tests.

Quote:
My main problem is that out of 8 questions that I got incorrect, 6 were due to VERY stupid mistakes such as not reading the passage or answer carefully. I also feel like I get stuck on trying to find the best possible answer. I also have a tendency to decide on an answer (in my head) and then I subconciously do not pay enough attention to the remaining answer choices and this is a huge problem for me.

I think you could address these issues by shooting for higher accuracy in practice.

You could practice with both 600- and 700-level questions and shoot for close to 100 percent accuracy AND streaks of 20 questions correct in a row. If you can get questions correct in streaks of 20 or more, you should be set.

See this post for more on how to practice by using the streaks method.

The Best GMAT Practice Methods

Also, this video could be helpful.




Thank you Marty, this was excellent advice. I can report back that my accuracy on Hard questions improved by about 20 percentage points thanks to using this approach.
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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  28 May 2023, 14:30
Syavashp wrote:
GmatTutorKnight wrote:
Nice performance. Fair to say two consecutive fresh Official Mocks that hit your target score would be a positive sign of hitting something similar on an actual exam.


Thanks.

I am targeting UK schools like LBS/Cambridge so I don't really need an elite score (though it would be nice to have one!).

I gave the second mock and scored 720, Q49 V38. I was quite under the weather which affected my performance and I got a bunch of medium level verbal questions incorrect :/

Nevertheless, I've scheduled an exam on June 1st. In the meantime are there any Verbal CATs that I can do for some final practice? So far my scores on Verbal are V44 (680 attempt in 2017), V41 on the GC Verbal CAT (the free one) and then V45 and V41 on the two official practice tests respectively.


Consider purchasing some fresh Official Mocks. In case you've taken them all, perhaps retake Official Mock 1 if it's been a while. You could, if you have limited time, select/start with the Verbal section and skip through the Quant, AWA, and IR sections.

All the best bumping Verbal up!

How to get a V40 or higher on the GMAT? What about a V51?
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  30 May 2023, 14:35
GmatTutorKnight wrote:
Syavashp wrote:
GmatTutorKnight wrote:
Nice performance. Fair to say two consecutive fresh Official Mocks that hit your target score would be a positive sign of hitting something similar on an actual exam.


Thanks.

I am targeting UK schools like LBS/Cambridge so I don't really need an elite score (though it would be nice to have one!).

I gave the second mock and scored 720, Q49 V38. I was quite under the weather which affected my performance and I got a bunch of medium level verbal questions incorrect :/

Nevertheless, I've scheduled an exam on June 1st. In the meantime are there any Verbal CATs that I can do for some final practice? So far my scores on Verbal are V44 (680 attempt in 2017), V41 on the GC Verbal CAT (the free one) and then V45 and V41 on the two official practice tests respectively.


Consider purchasing some fresh Official Mocks. In case you've taken them all, perhaps retake Official Mock 1 if it's been a while. You could, if you have limited time, select/start with the Verbal section and skip through the Quant, AWA, and IR sections.

All the best bumping Verbal up!

How to get a V40 or higher on the GMAT? What about a V51?


I didn't realize I could just take the Verbal sections of the mock, thanks! Took Practice Test 3 and got a V42. Made some really stupid mistakes though :/ Will report back now after test day!
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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  01 Jun 2023, 05:26
I finally gave the exam and got a 750! Q48 and V44. Really happy with the result!

I actually screwed up the Quant and missed Q30 & Q31 as I ran out of time; I took a 9 minute break between Verbal and Quant and didn't realize it and that time got deducted from my Quant section time and hence I **** up. After that I was quite sure I'd get a bad score, but pleasantly surprised!

It would not have been possible without EGMAT's wonderful course and the GC forum. Thank you everyone!
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Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  01 Jun 2023, 05:31
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Gratz on the 750. All the best going forward.
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink] New post  08 Jun 2023, 17:33
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Syavashp wrote:
I finally gave the exam and got a 750! Q48 and V44. Really happy with the result!

I actually screwed up the Quant and missed Q30 & Q31 as I ran out of time; I took a 9 minute break between Verbal and Quant and didn't realize it and that time got deducted from my Quant section time and hence I **** up. After that I was quite sure I'd get a bad score, but pleasantly surprised!



Amazing job!! Congrats!
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Re: Got a 680 in 2017. Attempting the GMAT again; stuck at V41 [#permalink]
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