Haas PT 07, Round 1 or round 2??

Question

Hi,

I finish with the GMAT mid-September (hopefully, I will not need to take it again). 

My question is: should I slog it out for 2 months (applying only to Haas PT; app deadline for 1st round is Nov 15th), or go with the whole "discover yourself" process and make the 2nd round? Have not started with the essays or even my resume yet. Have selected and briefed my recommenders.

Another factor is an impending promotion to management that should happen anytime (may not be before the 1st round apps though). I do have substantial leadership and project management experience.

If I do apply by mid-Nov, it will be the only application I'll be working on.

The following is from the Berkeley MBA forums:

" The percentage of offers of admission between the two rounds is virtually identical. Your chances of getting admitted are the same regardless of the round in which you apply. Our second round of applications is usually twice the size of the first round, and this has been consistent for the last few years. Knowing our historical numbers, the admissions committee makes sure to save enough â€œseatsâ€

Lich · Answer

Futuristic, I am curious to know why your firm would promote you to management if you have already alerted them to your MBA plans. I was in a similiar quandry, when I was offered a promotion in June, but didn't inform my boss yet of my MBA plans. When I told him my plans to attend school, my boss told me he appreciated my honesty, but then couldn't promote me (which I perfectly understand).

Futuristic · Answer

I don't see the connection. A lot of firms, on the contrary, encourage their employees to take MBAs and even cover all tuition. I have some friends who are studying for PT MBAs with full sponsorship from their employers. BTW, if you find this surprising, you will find it even more surprising that it was my manager who got me thinking about an MBA in the first place

Disclaimer: I may be just very lucky in this aspect. I would be saddened to know if the norm is indeed as you mention.

Lich · Answer

Do you intend to work for your current company after earning your MBA?
This is what I find so weird. From a manager's perspective (or the way I see it) if I had to promote someone in mid-November, I would be very reluctant to promote someone that I know will in most likehood quit in June/July next year, even if that person is clearly the most qualified candidate.

Futuristic · Answer

I have not thought that far. I can't plan for 4 years down the line yet (which is why I need an MBA

) One has to factor in that a part time MBA at Haas is a 3 year program, and I do plan to work at the same place during this interim. I agree with you in that as an employer, I would be unwilling to promote someone who I knew would be leaving soon.

Lich · Answer

Ahhh, you are applying for PT. Now everything makes sense. Please just disregard my previous posts.

Hindustan · Answer

I have applied to PT HAAS before, and have loads of information about how 'not' to get into HAAS, as I have been rejected once and have gotten tremendous amount of feedback from them.

buckkitty · Answer

Can you share your how not to get rejected strategies? Do tell.

Futuristic · Answer

Went for the EWMBA Haas info session this evening in the Bay Area. Was anyone else there? Anyway, nothing major missed. By my calculations should be able to get my company to fund 2/3 of it, if I make it.

Hindustan · Answer

ok:

1. Try not to get your interview with this lady, hmm i will re-collect her name in a bit, she is the director of the Evening and Weekend Program.

2. If you don't wear a tie for the interview, you won't get it, point blank. I was told later by feedback that this was on of the reasons of my 'unprofessionalism'

3. Need to have 85 percentile in both quant and verbal. I had 99 in quant and 76 in verbal and was told that this was one of the reasons for rejection.

4. having 5-6 yr work exp is very common among applicant, one needs to have shown leadership by management of atleast 10 ppl. i had managed 4, and this number was far too few for them.

5. resume needs to be really good.

6. careful of grammar in essays.

7. essays dont count that much in part time berkeley as much as the interview does, and 90% ppl get interviews.

Futuristic · Answer

This is an interesting bit of information...I find some of it difficult to believe though. Lets go through it..

Regarding 1: Thanks for this tip. I'm aware that some adcoms can be sticky, but how does one try not to get an interview specifically with one person?

Regarding 2: Ok, I'm surprised a little, but not completely. I've been told by many that the way you dress is an implicit declaration of intent. Makes some sense, and is easy to address.

Regarding 3: Doable, but work in progress.

Regarding 4: At the company I work at, I know people personally who are not managing teams but have made it into this very program. I also know people, who are managing teams of 4-5 people and have made it in. I don't think one can put a hard number of 12 people and say...this is the number you need to meet to be admitted to our program. I think the size and prestige of the company play a part here as do the management dynamics of the company.

Regarding 5: Nothing new here.

Regarding 6: Interesting that you mention it. One of the things that I caught (and was a little peeved about) was the way the lady (might be the same person you're advising us to avoid) said "we spend a lot of time reading your essays, so watch your commas and punctuation". 

Regarding 7: Your statement goes against all general advice. In any case, I think we're all going to take our best shots at the essays, regardless of where they fit into the package.

Again, thanks for the tips.

Could you tell us a little more about your interview? This kind of information is what I've been scrounging around for.

rhyme · Answer

Everyone's feedback is particular to them, so I just want to show that different people have different experiences and different results.

For example...

A friend of mine, currently at Haas, had no direct management experience (and neither do most people who go to MBA), only indirect, and maybe of 4 or 5 maximum. In addition, his GMAT score was below 85% on both fronts.

I'd also question the essay comment.

Hindustan · Answer

I was interviewed in March/April timeframe. 
The feedback by phone was what I jotted down as above. Ofcourse I don't mean essays are not important, maybe mine were too good, and probably my resume and management experience was lakcing in "comparative" terms.

Questions:

1. Tell us about yourself.

2. What do you do at work?

3. How many ppl do you manage? What have been some of the issues you have overcome in managing your direct reports?

4. Where do you want to be after you graduate?

30 min was scheduled time, we spent about 37 mins.

----------------------

Futuristic · Answer

Thanks Hindustan, good stuff

pelihu · Answer

I just had a reaction to a few of the points.

For #2, I'm not really surprised. Now, a certain casual attitude permeates the Bay Area, but if you are interviewing for business school, you have to leave that behind. As I would with any interview, if it were not already obvious, I would call and check on the appropriate dress. Interviewers are happy to tell you; it is not a guessing game. There may be some confusion over terminology, but business formal means suit and tie.

#3 - According to the chart on a recent GMAT score sheet, 85th percentile would be 48Q/38V. By my estimation, that would be about 700 overall. I could believe that if they say that 700 is the average, but there is no way that 85th percentile is a hard cut-off. In fact, since 700 is about the average score, 1/2 of the admitted students are below 700. If you further estimate that few will score exactly 48/38, it should be accurate that fewer than 1/4 of the overall admitted applicants are over 85th percentile on both Q & V. Even Wharton's full-time program states that they 'prefer' 80th percentile on both.

#6 - This should go unsaid. I mean really, how can someone take your application seriously if you don't even take the time to use correct grammar?

iced_tea · Answer

my gmat as of now is scheduled for oct 20th - do you guys think i can still try and apply for R1 at haas (deadline nov 15th) or should i target for R2 only ?

rhyme · Answer

Nov 15 is doable. Depends how much you do before Oct 20 though. You cant leave it till then. Recommendations for example need to start now.

Honestly though, I'd say, unless theres a pressing reason to apply in R1, better to do it right and apply R2.

haas_mba07 · Answer

Great discussion guys... one more to the applicant pool for Haas. 
Just decided to look at the app today and have exactly 49 days to get it done... hopefully will.
 
Couple of questions:

a. Not a managerial role? Does that necessarily go against you? By the tone of my question, you might note that I am not in a management role?

b. Multi-dimensional app: What about other activities? What can you highlight and what should you avoid highlighting?

c. Where should I start my app process? Just start grinding at one aspect? Or start with the essays & recos.

rhyme · Answer

Now, dont mistake managerial role for leadership. Thats a common misconception. Leadership is not about being a manager. Think about that for a while and you'll see im right. If you dont get it, feel free to PM me.

Anything really. Something that makes you different. Idealyl, some kind of activity in which you take a leadership role. These should be things in which you DO something, not just "a member", ideally. For example, you might be a member of the ACLU, but unelss you do something for them, you are just one of hundreds of thousands of supporters. Another perfect example of poor activities: donating money to charity. IT's not an activity but people list stuff like this anyway.

Don't highlight (but feel free to list): 
Areas in which you are not a leader
Areas in which you are not an active member 
Areas in which your participation is tactical not strategic.

Highlight:
Any kind of activity outside of work in which you take a signficant responsibility.

Now, that can be ANYTHING. Baseball team. Music Club. A choir. In fact, in some ways, the further away it is from your day job, the more interesting itll be.

c. Where should I start my app process? Just start grinding at one aspect? Or start with the essays & recos. 

That depends. 
What have you done already? Anything?

I'd suggest the following:

1. Redo your resume. This will force you to think about your leadership experiences.

2. Write up some points for yoru recommenders to help remind them of things you did so they can be as specific as possible. Give them to them ASAP. 

3. Look at the application and find out what, besides, the essays, they ask for. You'd be surprised how much stuff you sometimes have to go find out - i.e. contact numbers for X or Y, exact dates of employment, your parent's graduate institutions, fax numbers for previous employers, etc etc... Its all this other work that takes much much longer than you think.

4. The essays.

Haas PT 07, Round 1 or round 2??

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