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Where should helg go?

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helg
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 00:33
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My first choice post-MBA goal is MC, I want to join one of the big MC firms. Location will probably be Europe (London?). Another option I consider is joining a rotational GM program. I have a completely non-finance background. That may be a good thing in GSB (learn more) or a bad thing (harder to study).

Here's my cosiderations:

Chicago GSB
Pros:
- an M7;
- better brand recognition in Europe;
- flexible curriculum and arguably stronger faculty;
- big city life - my wife loves it better :-D ;
- arguably better employment prospects;
Cons:
- more expensive housing;
- classmates all over the big city - less networking?

Ross
Pros:
- 100% tuition costs covered;
- quiet college town - better networking with classmates?
- cheaper housing;
Cons:
- weaker brand recognition in Europe and Russia.

Pls feel free to add your considerations.

P.S. Oh, I forgot! GSB has been my dream school for years, should I trade dream for $$$?
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 00:46
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tough choice helg. But based on your goals, the classic cliche of "money shouldn't matter" comes into play.

If you want to do MC, especially in Europe, then GSB will have a MUCH better name for you to get into the best firms. Chicago is expensive, but the city is very nice and you'll get a LOT of networking during the winter months when everyone is huddled inside that magnificent building. :P

And there will be tons of GMATClubbers in Chicago too.

Chicago all the way.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 01:12
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Chicago all the way helg. Remember dont give up on your dreams. 80K is not *that* much money in the big scheme of things.
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branson
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 01:43
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My opinion isnt really an educated one on this, I dont know the GSB, havent researched it, but I dont like the location ( I love Chicago, but I dont want to study on a inner-city campus, one of the reasons I didnt apply for NYC schools). I have heard bad things about the neighbourhood, too. (therefore my "bulletproof vest" remark the other day) I also read that the atmosphere is overly academic and quite competitive. Ross seems a lot more like a friendly place.

I have the same scholarship offer from Ross. It seems they are shelling it out these days. Might be the $100m infusion of money in 2006. I have a hard time turning that thing down (and I dont think people in our positon 2 years from now will have the same offer).

I dont think 80k is that little money. We are talking $80.000 NET here! Not gross! NET! I dont know what you would have to earn in the US with lower tax rates there, but here in Germany with our tax burden, that would equal roundabout $150.000 gross yearly earnings (assuming you would pay it off in one year ;) ) That's money you have to make first.

With a job market that is not going to become easier the next 3 years, 80k less debt is really something. And we are still talking about a top10/12 school here. With a new building in the making. I have no clue about GSBs consulting placement record, but Ross' is quite okay (you might have followed the discussion on the Ross admit board, where I asked quite a few questions as well)

Brand: Around here I would say the GSB is not that well known. I'd say Berkeley is far better known than the C GSB.

Take all this with a grain of salt. Again, I dont really know that much about GSB

May I ask why you love GSB so much - especially since you want to go into consulting?
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 01:53
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Congratulations!
You have an amazing choice to make. Chicago GSB has been my dream school too for its rigorous academic curriculum. Also Chicago has been gaining its reputation by leaps and bounds recently. You may also look at the strength of the network of the alumni of both the schools. I have done my MBA from an Indian school and its network has been my biggest takeaway from the school after 6 years.

I know Ross is known for its reputation in GM but I find it hard to believe the slots that the top schools have been fitted into. Apart from certain specialised courses offered by professors that you may be specifically targetting, most schools will offer you the same exposure and opportunity (IMHO). However you may also like to track if the particular company that you are targetting, recruits at the campus that you finally choose.

When I started 6 years back, $80k (in India especially) was a huge sum of money but I would trade that money anyday for a wider and stronger network.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 02:55
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I vote for Ross, mainly because of these 2 things:
- scholarship (100K migh be just a number, but with that kind of money you could buy a house and be set for life)
- post MBA career in MC. The strenght of one school's brand is a subjective characteristic, but I can tell you this:
30% of Ross '07 class went into consulting
10% of the consulting people got a Big3 firm consulting job
(or 18% of the consulting people got a Big3 firm + Booz Allen job)
so Big 3 job out of Ross is definietly possible
If you take the Ross Fellowship, during the recruiting process you will be a Ross Fellow!! not an ordinary student! so the money you are getting from Ross translate into intangible benefits also.
I had a full-ride for undergrad, and at all job interviews that I go pos-undergrad I got a 'wow full-ride' comment from the recruiters.
Also, not to forget that Ross has the LARGEST number of alumni worlwide of ALL b-schools. If you want a worldwide carrer, this is important! Comming from Eastern Europe you have probably heard the saying 'it is not what you know, it is WHO you know', so maybe Chicago has better academics, but with Ross you will have access to more people (alimni) worldwide.
With the money that Ross has now (the 100 million $$$ gift from Mr. Ross is the LARGEST gift any b-school has received in history) the school's reputation is due to increase because they will have more money to attract the best applicants, to have better facilities, better professors... A few people this year are chosing Ross over M7 because of the money, and how many other top 10-15 schools can say that people chose them instead of M7? So, yes, you can buy reputation with money and in a few years time this the effect of Mr. Ross' gift will be evident in the rankings.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 03:37
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branson

May I ask why you love GSB so much - especially since you want to go into consulting?
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The answer is rather simple: because of the people there. I had invariably great experience getting to know the GSB students and alumni. I would be happy to spend two years of my life in this community.
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branson
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 03:43
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helg
branson

May I ask why you love GSB so much - especially since you want to go into consulting?

The answer is rather simple: because of the people there. I had invariably great experience getting to know the GSB students and alumni. I would be happy to spend two years of my life in this community.
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Fair enough. Did you speak to Ross people?
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross Updated on: 28 Mar 2008, 04:00
Originally posted by raconteur on 28 Mar 2008, 03:51.
Last edited by raconteur on 28 Mar 2008, 04:00, edited 1 time in total.
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I personally think Ross is the better choice in your scenario. I know your wife may like Chicago but having a FULL ride to ROSS is no small thing by any means. She may even like the fact that you won't, as a family, go in the hole several tens of thousands of dollars just by getting your MBA. You want to do MC, preferably in Europe/Russia... from what I've read about Ross, the program has obviously hit on something and has made some huge gains over the past several years. I don't know your background (speak Russian by chance?) but if you have qualities/experience working in Europe then that's going to be an added bonus when interviewing for jobs. You will have the opportunity to interview with several top MC firms while at Ross AND, let's not forget, you also get to "flaunt" your full-ride fellowship....not quarter-ride, or half-ride, but FULL ride! I think that will be highly impressive in the eyes of recruiters.

I say Ross all the way... if it were HBS vs. Ross then it'd get pretty challenging but Ross vs. Chicago is actually a pretty tight race right there imho.

Just my 两块钱 :)

Edit: I've read your profile and now I know you're Russian. To be honest, you would be a tremendous asset for any top MC company hoping to expand in the European/Russian market.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 03:58
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention this, but Ross seems to be very hot for Europeans lateley. I think one of the school's strategy is to increase its pesence in Europe. Ross has been trowing money like crazy to Europeans and European firms have started to appreciate Ross' brand more

raconteur
You want to do MC, preferably in Europe/Russia... from what I've read about Ross, the program has obviously hit on something and has made some huge gains over the past several years.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 04:00
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Darden2010

With the money that Ross has now (the 100 million $$$ gift from Mr. Ross is the LARGEST gift any b-school has received in history) the school's reputation is due to increase because they will have more money to attract the best applicants, to have better facilities, better professors...
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I agree, but this effect will be perceived only 5-10 years from now, and by that time it's not your MBA that counts anymore.

Helg, you have a tough call to make. I personally wouldn't put money as the primare decision factor; however I know it's important. I know people who accepted money instead of their dream school, and if there were a time machine they would be paying all they could to get in there. And I know people who are very satisfied with the money.

If you were going into finance, I'd say that the choice would be easy, as that's not the case, I think you should talk more to people, define your real goals, go to the schools, the cities, etc.

Now relax, don't stress too much :-D
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 04:05
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Darden2010
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention this, but Ross seems to be very hot for Europeans lateley. I think one of the school's strategy is to increase its pesence in Europe. Ross has been trowing money like crazy to Europeans and European firms have started to appreciate Ross' brand more

raconteur
You want to do MC, preferably in Europe/Russia... from what I've read about Ross, the program has obviously hit on something and has made some huge gains over the past several years.
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Yes and also in South America, a different approach from that of GSB, which is marketing its brand through the London and Singapure Campuses.

I know 2 Brazilians who got full rides this year from Ross (one of them is considering MIT, K and GSB, if you need I can put you in touch with him). Perhaps because last year they offered 50% tuition to 2 Brazilians and from what I remember both turned down the offer.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 04:07
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kwam
Now relax, don't stress too much :-D
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Aye, /agree -- you're in a great spot! But definitely take the time and explore the curriculum and talk to current students, etc. And if you were going into "high finance" type of work then that would obviously be a different scenario. All the best with your decision but rest well friend because you're in a GREAT position!
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 04:11
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kwam

I agree, but this effect will be perceived only 5-10 years from now, and by that time it's not your MBA that counts anymore.
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What I was trying to say is this:
It is not like firms have caps for the number of people they recruit from each school.
So Ross will welcome an awsome class of 2010 this September (partly due to the money)
In 2010 this awsome class will score many awsome jobs
In 2012 Ross will have awsome standing in the rankings

So even though the effect on th ranking will not be felt in 5-10 years from now, I think the class of 2010 will be part of the cause of that improved ranking because we will be the driving force behind it with the awsome jobs that we are going to get :)
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 04:40
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helg... it's a very-very tough choice. I voted for dream come true. It's Chicago. You may attract lots of logic, lots of calculations, but when you have your dream fulfilled, you feel comfortable, you see people you like (either way, Ross students are also great :), then money mean less, you will earn it with pleasure.
Wish you have choices of this kind in internship hunt and in recruiting too.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 05:05
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R.E.D.
helg... it's a very-very tough choice. I voted for dream come true. It's Chicago. You may attract lots of logic, lots of calculations, but when you have your dream fulfilled, you feel comfortable, you see people you like (either way, Ross students are also great :), then money mean less, you will earn it with pleasure.
Wish you have choices of this kind in internship hunt and in recruiting too.
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Thanks, R.E.D., we've been discussing it a lot between us and I am grateful for your support :thanks
Disclaimer: I never said or thought that GSB people are better than the Ross people :) It's just that I have stronger bonds with the GSB community thanks to the fact that I have been exposed to this community for much longer time. Ross people are great, I have no doubts about that.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 05:16
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The dream is a multidimensional chategory
Isn't owning a house a dream?
Isn't getting an MBA debt-free a dream?

It is not like he would be wasting a dream
He would just be trading one dream for another :)

R.E.D.
helg... it's a very-very tough choice. I voted for dream come true. It's Chicago. You may attract lots of logic, lots of calculations, but when you have your dream fulfilled, you feel comfortable, you see people you like (either way, Ross students are also great :), then money mean less, you will earn it with pleasure.
Wish you have choices of this kind in internship hunt and in recruiting too.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 05:17
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helg
R.E.D.
helg... it's a very-very tough choice. I voted for dream come true. It's Chicago. You may attract lots of logic, lots of calculations, but when you have your dream fulfilled, you feel comfortable, you see people you like (either way, Ross students are also great :), then money mean less, you will earn it with pleasure.
Wish you have choices of this kind in internship hunt and in recruiting too.

Thanks, R.E.D., we've been discussing it a lot between us and I am grateful for your support :thanks
Disclaimer: I never said or thought that GSB people are better than the Ross people :) It's just that I have stronger bonds with the GSB community thanks to the fact that I have been exposed to this community for much longer time. Ross people are great, I have no doubts about that.
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It's not about who is better :) but about with whom you feel more fit.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 05:25
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Darden2010
The dream is a multidimensional chategory
Isn't owning a house a dream?
Isn't getting an MBA debt-free a dream?

It is not like he would be wasting a dream
He would just be trading one dream for another :)
Show more
It's a multi-dream :)
Is it a dream to wake up every day during two years and smile to the sun, because you have another day with people you like a lot, people you like to talk a lot to, people who share values similar to yours, people who mentor you, people who help you in tough times?

I spent a lot of time with students from Ross and I feel very comfortable going to Ross, because there will be people whom I like. If there would be a GMATClub school, I would with no doubt go to it :)

And if you feel that comfortable then you can easily reach other dreams :) It's not trading, it's getting one after another.
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Help helg decide: Chicago GSB vs Ross 28 Mar 2008, 07:13
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helg,

I vote for GSB and here are my reasons:

1) Since you are going to MC and not non-profit or even marketing, you will be able to pay off $80-$90K of debt after graduation easily. While this amount of money seems like a huge sum, your sign-up bonus will cover 30% even before you start your job!
2) You have a wife! And hence, it's no longer a decision that will only affect you. I am not sure what your wife's career field is but I am 99% sure that she will find something to do in Chicago. Ann Arbor - i'm not so sure. If she is a home maker, than she might be bored to death in Ann Arbor while you are studying with you classmates, interviewing, going to company presentations. But she will have so many things to do in Chicago! Plus, Chicago has a very large Russian community.
3) Chicago GSB will get you further in Europe that Ross will (just my opinion) due to a better brand name recognition.
4) Yes, it is great to have a "full tuition fellowship" on your resume and it will draw recruiters to your resume. However, you will still have to prove yourself during the interview. In other words, while the fellowship will help you get in front of the interviewers, it will not help you get the job.
5) My reservation about Chicago is its culture and a commuter school feel. These are two reasons that are keeping me from sending my deposit to GSB today. However, since you've researched GSB and love the academic feel of the school an don't mind the location, I don't see a reason for you to be in doubt. Just go to GSB! It's obvious that that's where your heart is anyway. And your wife will thank you for it :-)

Piece of advice: ask GSB for some $. You have a very good leverage in Ross, so who knows - you might end up with some dough from GSB as well!

Good luck!
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