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Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno

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Where should KK go?

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Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 15:27
When I started my B-School applications process I really wanted only one thing - to be able to make the final choice of the school I would go to. Thankfully that wish was fulfilled but it is turning out to be one of the tougher decisions I'd be making for a while....

I've been admitted to UCLA & Duke and waitlisted at Cornell.
As I have now realized......the choice is not easy! The latest US news rankings have complicated things further.
:help2 So I now turn to you...fellow clubbers, for your views and opinions on where I should matriculate. :help2
I've been an IT consultant for the better part of my career and am looking to get an MBA with concentrations in strategy and finance.

Goals - To get into management/strategy consulting, pay off loans ASAP and then explore available options inside/outside the US (read South East Asia/Europe)

UCLA:
Pros:
I've been living 40 miles south of the UCLA campus for the last 3.5 yrs. so can call LA home (moving will be unavoidable though)
UCLA's reputation in the local market is nothing short of extraordinary - Will definitely give me access to any market within CA
LA is the second largest metro in the nation with the best weather one could ask for
Access to the silicon valley/bay area might prove to be a safety-net given my Tech background
The UCLA MBA program has been around for more than 75 years
Cons:
The big 3 MC firms are not featured on UCLA's list of top employers...not sure how many BCG and Bain pick from UCLA
Almost 80% of the grads get employed within CA - makes it a very regional school - Brand recognition outside USA may be questionable
Bodine's point - above skewed statistic might limit access to markets outside CA to some extent

DUKE:
Pros:
The weather is pretty good here too
Placement statistics suggest that Duke consistently places students across the nation with an even distribution - Makes it more of a national brand
Arguably the Duke brand is better recognized globally than UCLA - will help me in the event that I decide to move out
Placement statistics indicate all major MC firms recruiting at Duke in addition to a bunch of boutiques in the RTP area
Have family within driving distance
Historically better ranked than UCLA
Cons:
Industry reputation tends to be in marketing and the Health sector, not so much in finance and strategy
Too many great schools both in the UE and E categories are in the east/midwest - increased competition?
The program is 35 yrs young

I'll avoid listing Cornell specifics since it is still not confirmed.

Cheers :o
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 16:12
that's a tough one KK... and now you know why nervous, helg, and I are so torn...

For what you want to do (consulting), Duke is probably better and more national, as you said. But then you said you want SE Asia type business, which favors UCLA (no one has heard of Duke in China region, at least when I was there). Not as sure about SE Asia, but UCLA has a LOT of connections with their international programs in that region.

You also said Europe, which would favor Duke, so you're tied there.

Then you mentioned finance, which UCLA would be slightly better than Duke.

So in the end, the things you want to do make the two schools lie on polar opposites of each other (along with the geography). You might need to decide first whether you want to work on West or East Coast/Midwest, Asia or Europe, Consulting or Finance. Before you decide on that, the two schools are pretty evenly tied.

UCLA does have much better weather though, and you have familiarity with the area. Why would anyone want to leave California anyways? :wink:
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 16:18
I think you have a pretty easy decision. Duke and UCLA are as different as two elite schools can be. UCLA has a killer finance program and an even better e-ship and media program while Duke has an amazing marketing and healthcare program. General management and strategy are not great strengths of either school. Even in terms of brand, internationally UCLA has a great brand which can give the Duke name a run for its money.

In your case, if you are dead set on consulting, its a no-brainer for me. Duke is the better school. But, if you are also similarly interested in tech management, or even finance UCLA is the obvious choice. Good luck with the decision, but for consulting I would go with Duke.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 16:20
Tough choice KK...I voted for Duke as it seems to be better for consulting, and I think it may be wise to think about short-term post-MBA goals when you make your decision. Why bother thinking about your second job after MBA (business in SE Asia) when you may not get your dream first job after MBA (consulting) if you go to Anderson?
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 16:33
There seems to be a lot of East Coast bias here, so I'll add some of my own West Coast bias. I vote for UCLA--as you know the UCLA brand is very strong both in LA and SF. I'm sure you'd have a great experience either way though.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 17:36
most of the club is from the midwest or East Coast, and a huge portion of the US population live in the Midwest or East (40%), where as only 23% are on the West and the rest in the South.

That and there are only a few top 20 schools on the West, all with very small class sizes, versus a TON out east. :)
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 18:01
Well my vote of course will be for UCLA :) I need some more gmatclubbers with me next year. But either school is great choice. ncprasad broke it down perfectly. Finance Southeast Asia - UCLA. Consulting - Duke
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 18:13
KK, east coast or west coast. Answer that and you have your answer. Midwest I give to Duke.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 22:26
I was born in Los Angeles and love it there. So, my vote is for UCLA. Also, you can't beat the amazing warm weather, which will probably stimulate you to do better in your studies! Resulting in better performance, leading to more exit options.

Maybe I am going to far, and my vote is biased. :lol:
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 22:55
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The thing about consulting at Anderson is most people that come to Anderson want to stay in LA post-MBA. The LA offices for McKinsey, Bain, BCG and even Deloitte are only so big so Anderson's placement is not that great. AT Kearney and Archstone come for their SF offices.

I know that all the firms interview for both interns and full-time at UCLA and Deloitte LA views Anderson as it's main school. To the best of my knowledge, none of the firms have an office in Durham so students that go to Duke no they are going to relocate to one of the many offices for the firms.

If you are a strong candidate, can nail a case, the opportunities are definitely there for a job in consulting from Anderson. If you are an average candidate that is hoping to be one of the numbers that makes it through mass recruiting, Anderson would not be the best place for you for this career path.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2008, 23:16
socalconsult, its great to hear another unique perspective from someone in the know. Kudos!

If I may say so, one thing I have noticed here and on the BW forum is the lack of current Anderson students providing insights on the program. I know very recently 1 student started responding to questions on the BW forum. I truly believe that MBA forum marketing is the best tool available to business schools for generating interest. If Anderson is to break some of the stereotyping that it faces, I think it needs more students like you pitching in.

Thank You!

socalconsult wrote:
The thing about consulting at Anderson is most people that come to Anderson want to stay in LA post-MBA....
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 03:17
I second what NC said. Socalconsult, it's good to see you back here helping people learn about Anderson and the great program they have there. I think until the recent US News jump, no one paid attention to UCLA here on GMATClub (except for a few of us who "discovered" the school after putting up with the admissions office all last fall :P). I think we can get a good West Coast crowd going if you and a couple of Anderson students stay active here, and we have a few Haas and Stanford folks also getting people to apply and come to the "right" coast. :P Thank you again for your contribution!
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 07:26
kk -

i've got tons of friends going into finance roles. All the big ones recruit, and spend lots of money on it and bring lots of staff down when they do. Our week on wall street had a big number of students. i can't speak to UCLA, but I can tell you that both finance and consulting are strongly represented. If you want to get in touch with someone from either industry - or any other - please do let me know.

Someone mentioned Duke isn't all that good for general mgmt - that would not be my impression. Duke does well or very well at most functions (with the exception of ops, I think). This was part of what attracted me to Duke. Our GM club is very active with many members. We get GM recruiting from banks (Citi, Wells, BoA, etc), manufacturers (Thompson, DuPont, Deere), telecom (Embarq, ATT), IT (intel, google, microsoft), and plenty of others.

Anyway, these are just my experiences. I really know nothing about UCLA, but am happy to help you learn more about Duke.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 09:22
ncprasad wrote:
socalconsult, its great to hear another unique perspective from someone in the know. Kudos!

If I may say so, one thing I have noticed here and on the BW forum is the lack of current Anderson students providing insights on the program. I know very recently 1 student started responding to questions on the BW forum. I truly believe that MBA forum marketing is the best tool available to business schools for generating interest. If Anderson is to break some of the stereotyping that it faces, I think it needs more students like you pitching in.

Thank You!

socalconsult wrote:
The thing about consulting at Anderson is most people that come to Anderson want to stay in LA post-MBA....


There are a lot of misinformation and stereotypes about the school that should be discussed. I think a lot of students feel like there time is spent helping people who have come to campus and express a general interest in the program rather than come on message boards and argue with people making decisions purely on rankings or who have no plans on attending. At Anderson , ots of students are involved whether it be interviewing, hosting campus visits, or Admit weekend. I would say most Anderson students are extremely proud of their school, but also feel that the program sells itself for those who come to find out about it. Fit is extremely important to Anderson culture and it is important that students want to be here. Anderson students are aware of these rankings but they do not really drive a lot of conversation at the school. Outside of maybe H/S, I do not feel that many Anderson students feel like we can not compete with the other Top 10 students. One thing I would say is expect a change in the student involvement online. Our new admissions director helped institute a lot of the online initiatives at Wharton which many would argue are the best of breed.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 09:25
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kk -

i've got tons of friends going into finance roles. All the big ones recruit, and spend lots of money on it and bring lots of staff down when they do. Our week on wall street had a big number of students. i can't speak to UCLA, but I can tell you that both finance and consulting are strongly represented. If you want to get in touch with someone from either industry - or any other - please do let me know.

Someone mentioned Duke isn't all that good for general mgmt - that would not be my impression. Duke does well or very well at most functions (with the exception of ops, I think). This was part of what attracted me to Duke. Our GM club is very active with many members. We get GM recruiting from banks (Citi, Wells, BoA, etc), manufacturers (Thompson, DuPont, Deere), telecom (Embarq, ATT), IT (intel, google, microsoft), and plenty of others.

Anyway, these are just my experiences. I really know nothing about UCLA, but am happy to help you learn more about Duke.


A large percentage of students at Anderson go into banking. IFC at Anderson is one of the biggest clubs. All the banks recruit on campus for NY, SF, and LA except JP Morgan who pulled out after making a few offers a couple of years ago and being turned down. With Bear going bye bye, I expect JP Morgan to come back. A lot of companies recruit for Corp Finance jobs at Anderson. Anderson's Price Center also helps place people in VC/PE opportunities.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 10:12
socalconsult wrote:
The thing about consulting at Anderson is most people that come to Anderson want to stay in LA post-MBA....

This is so true....the thought of leaving this area makes me uncomfortable.
If people really pick location over top-jobs, it explains the skewed placement statistic. To me however, the job would be more important, but then that is just me.

socalconsult wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, none of the firms have an office in Durham so students that go to Duke no they are going to relocate to one of the many offices for the firms.

Again very plausible.

socalconsult wrote:
I think a lot of students feel like there time is spent helping people who have come to campus and express a general interest in the program rather than come on message boards and argue with people making decisions purely on rankings or who have no plans on attending.

My two cents...Choosing your MBA school is a decision that one makes for life so it is important that each one goes in confident of his/her own decision. Such forums are great resources for prospective students so I would second NC on having student ambassadors on active forums like these. You are a first for Anderson so Kudos to you! However, I wonder how many people apply to UE/E schools with absolutely no plans of attending.

riverripper wrote:
KK, east coast or west coast. Answer that and you have your answer. Midwest I give to Duke.

msday86 wrote:
Why bother thinking about your second job after MBA (business in SE Asia)

I'd like to keep my options open. I love the west, however, need to plan for the longer term as I am an international and would have used up 2/3rds of my work VISA quota, 4 out of 6 yrs, by the time I matriculate. The VISA situation doesn't help. :(
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 10:39
socalconsult wrote:
There are a lot of misinformation and stereotypes about the school that should be discussed. I think a lot of students feel like there time is spent helping people who have come to campus and express a general interest in the program rather than come on message boards and argue with people making decisions purely on rankings or who have no plans on attending.


Socalconsult, it's good that the Anderson students spend so much of their time helping prospective students when they visit, and I definitely "felt the love" when I was there. Kudos to you and all your classmates! :)

But as you probably know pretty well, GMATClub is NOT like the other forums out there where people bitterly argue about rankings, attack each other's schools, or post meaningless dribble (aka "rankingsgod") just to piss people off. A lot of people don't even KNOW about Anderson, let alone would apply there or fly all the way to LA to visit (and then be enchanted to apply, like in my case). The only people who really know are those who live on the West Coast, those who know UCLA as a parent school, or those who watch a lot of UCLA sports, then they look into the school.

If more Anderson students have a presence here, like you do, and help GMATClubbers who are picking schools know about what Anderson has to offer, then more people will take the time to learn about the school and visit, thus experience the hospitality and "excellence without attitude" that all Anderson students exude. :)

I can honestly say that if I didn't go to Cal as an undergrad and had many friends at UCLA (the whole "UC System bond"), thus have a favorable view of UCLA as a school, I would *not* have considered UCLA nor known about their strong entrepreneurship and international business programs!

My *2* cents. :)
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 11:49
socalconsult, It is great that students really sell the school once a prospective goes to Anderson. And when I visited Anderson(2 times in the last year), I had a pretty good time. But what about the thousands of applicants who are either on the east coast and cannot travel or stationed overseas. Most of them decide where to apply based on what's being discussed on online message boards. With the UCLA name and the amazing finance offerings that the school has, UCLA can easily position itself as a school of choice.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2008, 15:45
ncprasad wrote:
socalconsult, It is great that students really sell the school once a prospective goes to Anderson. And when I visited Anderson(2 times in the last year), I had a pretty good time. But what about the thousands of applicants who are either on the east coast and cannot travel or stationed overseas. Most of them decide where to apply based on what's being discussed on online message boards. With the UCLA name and the amazing finance offerings that the school has, UCLA can easily position itself as a school of choice.



I think the data suggests that most students base their decision on where to apply from their network of advisors and not on message boards; I think message boards are extremely high in selection bias. If you are in an area where you can not get to campus, there are resources that can be used to gauge relative strengths of programs. I can tell you that a lot of the east coast and international students I know applied to Anderson because of a recommendation of an advisor.

On a side note, I do find it interesting that people have done their due diligence and applied, and still rely on strangers to advise them on where to matriculate. The main factor students should consider when pursuing a school is how the school prepares and places a student into their respective career. Rankings should be a general guide but getting to admit weekend, checking out the employment reports, and talking to students is move valuable. MBA school is an extremely personal decision and experience and buyer's remorse comes when you have not done diligence.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink] New post   30 Mar 2008, 10:48
aaudetat wrote:
kk -
i've got tons of friends going into finance roles. All the big ones recruit, and spend lots of money on it and bring lots of staff down when they do. Our week on wall street had a big number of students. i can't speak to UCLA, but I can tell you that both finance and consulting are strongly represented. If you want to get in touch with someone from either industry - or any other - please do let me know.


Aau - Many of the top recruiters at Duke (J&J, kraft etc) would generally recruit for health/mktg neither of which I want to get into. Do you have any details on what sector the top 3/5 MC firms recruit for? My concern is that Duke's reputation in Mktg. and Health might have an impact on what kind of profiles these firms are looking for. Having spent 5+ yrs in IT I want to be reasonably certain that I don't end up doing IT consulting again. I do know that it'll depend on what I bring to the table but wanted to know if you were aware of any trends in this regard.
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Re: Help KK decide-DUKE v UCLA -A battle for sure...Royale?Dunno [#permalink]
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