Kellogg School of Managemnt - MMM Program

Question

Yesterday I received a question from mba12tech asking about the MMM program at Kellogg. He/she had some great questions, the answers of which are probably worth sharing in case anyone else out there has an interest in the program. I think there are probably some myths about the MMM program floating around out there in the ether, so I will first try to hit on some of the big ones.

Myth:  Since the MMM is a dual degree program, it will take more than two years to graduate.
 Fact:  MMM is a two year program. Since the MBA and MEM programs are completely integrated, graduation requirements for both are met in two years. There are no summer terms so you will still be able to do an internship in the summer between first and second year. Not to mention, you are graduating with two masters degrees but you are only paying for one!!

Myth:  Candidates are required to submit separate applications to, and must be admitted by both Kellogg and the McCormick School of Engineering.
 Fact : Because the MBA and MEM programs are completely integrated, candidates are only required to submit one application through Kellogg. There is no GRE or FE requirement. The only difference is that in the careers assessment/goals essay, there is a separate question for MMM candidates in which you must address how the MMM program will help you reach your career goals.

Myth:  The MMM program is only for “hard” engineers.
 Fact:  As far as I know, I don’t actually think there is a formal requirement for MMM’s to have an engineering undergraduate background (though most do). Certainly there is no requirement for a “hard” degree. Take me for example, other than the introductory statics and dynamics, thermo, and EE classes I had to take as part of a core engineering curriculum, most all of my systems engineering classes in undergrad where operations and calculus based statistics classes. For those candidates lacking an undergraduate engineering degree, solid work experience in operations or design, or working with engineering teams, or in an industry with an engineering focus would be a compelling reason to pursue the MMM program. Remember, the MEM degree is not as much about engineering, as it is learning how to be an engineering manager and leading groups of people to solve problems. Formally, the pre-reqs for the program can be found on the following link:

https://www.mmm.northwestern.edu/academics/prerequisites.php

Myth:  Since MMMs have to take courses from the McCormick School of Engineering, they are disengaged from the rest of Kellogg.
 Fact:  The main reason I was so keen on this program is because exactly the opposite is true. As a MMM, you are a “dual citizen” of Kellogg and McCormick. What does this mean? It means that you are fully a member of both schools and can take part in all activities in both. Just as any other Kellogg student, you are expected to take an active role in leading Kellogg activities but also have the opportunity to lead activities within McCormick as well. Within Kellogg you also maintain a “dual citizenship” in both your class section, and also the MMM section. One of the other “perks” of the program is the MMM student lounge in the Ford Design center. The MMM student lounge has several team rooms reserved only for MMMs, and is a nice place to relax and get away from Kellogg for a bit.

Myth:  The MEM course requirements will greatly detract from your ability to take classes at Kellogg.
 Fact:  There are a total of five core courses, and four elective courses required to meet the MEM requirement. When you factor in the other five core Kellogg courses, you are still left with ten MBA electives (assuming you only take four classes per quarter). In taking to several past and current MMM students, the MEM required courses in some ways actually make getting desired Kellogg electives easier. For example, since you do not have to bid of MEM, you are left with more bid points to use for MBA electives. At the bottom of the link below you can see a sample two year MMM schedule:

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/Programs/FullTimeMBA/MBA_Programs/MMM_Program.aspx

Myth:  The MMM program is only for those candidates interested in the manufacturing industry.
 Fact:  Most MMMs (75% of the class of 2008) go into industries other than manufacturing. While certainly the curriculum will prepare you for a manufacturing career, the program is designed to teach “systems thinking”. What this means is looking at a business problem holistically from the design phase (design does not necessarily imply the design of a product, it could also be a service, or a strategy), all the way through implementation. Because MMMs are taught to view problems from different perspectives, they can provide great value and insight to any company. A look at the breakdown of 2008 job acceptances by industry reinforces this:

MMM Job Acceptances by Industry % 
Consulting.........................................................................................43.9 
Other Manufacturing*...........................................................................14.0 
High-Tech Manufacturing and Services....................................................10.5 
Investment Banking, Brokerage and Securities..........................................10.5 
Other Services**.................................................................................10.5 
Consumer and Packages Goods...............................................................5.3 
Pharmaceuticals, Biotechnology, Healthcare..............................................5.3 
 
*Includes Alternative Energy, Energy, Other, Petroleum, Telecommunications, Widely Diversified 
**Includes Commercial Banking, Construction, Entertainment, Government, Venture Capital, Retail

More specific MMM employment data can be found on page 26 of the following PDF link:

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/career_employer/employment/2008/Kellogg_Employment_Report_2008.pdf 
 
As seen above, for those interested in consulting, the MMM does very well. In fact, 12 out of the 60, or 20% of MMM graduates in 2008 landed jobs at McKinsey, BCG or Bain. This compared to the ~15% of non MMM Kellogg students that went on to M/B/B.

Myth:  With an incoming class size of only 55, the MMM program is harder to get into than the 2Y program.
 Fact:  While the admissions office does not breakdown application statistics specifically for the program, when I asked an admissions officer what the acceptance rate for MMM was compared to 2Y, I was told they are comparable. Based on other conversations though, I am led to believe that from a purely statistical standpoint, it is actually slightly easier to get into MMM vice 2Y.

Myth:  The MMM program is pretty much the same as Ross’ MBA/MEM-Tauber program and Sloan’s LFM program.
 Fact:  While both Tauber and LFM are world renowned dual MBA/engineering programs, neither offers the ease of applying, total program integration, or career flexibility of MMM. Graduates of Ross’ Tauber program will receive both an MBA and MEM. However, the program is three years and separate applications (and GRE) are required for the business and engineering schools. Candidates must be offered admissions from both schools separately. Sloan’s LFM is also a highly regarded manufacturing program that offers fellowships to its students. The catch is that you are expected to work at a sponsoring company in a purely manufacturing capacity upon graduation. If truly engineering and manufacturing are your career goals, then either of these programs will serve you well. However, if your aspirations do not necessarily include a career in manufacturing, then both of these programs may be somewhat limiting.

Hopefully, this hits on most of the major questions about MMM. Please feel free to post any questions you may have and I will try to answer them.

unplugged · Answer

Hi domtri33,

Thanks for your response.

Is there a way to get intouch with kellogg MMM Alumni in the Auto Industry?

Unplugged

domtri33 · Answer

The MMM program was just this week named by Business Week as one of the top design programs in the world. https://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/10 ... dex_01.htm

manasa · Answer

hi domtri33,

I am interested in the MMM program and would be applying for R2.
This is the kind of program I have been looking for. I did talk to people from MIT-LGO.. it looks like I am gonna have a very slim chance there as I do not have permit to work in the US

B.E. in Industrial Engineering & Management- I am not sure how to convert it to GPA but I have topped my university
GMAT 720
4+yrs of automotive industry exp in India

I would like to enhance my profile with the MMM program and get into Strategy Management positions..

Could you tell me my chances of getting through? 
Also I would like to visit the school.. is it a good idea?

domtri33 · Answer

manasa,

Glad to hear that you are interested in the MMM program. Looking at your profile, it seems like the program could be a good fit for you.

I will apologize right now, and say, really, I'm not in a position to gauge if you will get into Kellogg or not. In all honesty, the admissions process is a bit of a black box. That being said, I would certainly suggest visiting Kellogg and trying to sit in on a MMM class.

jzd · Answer

Hi domtri33

Thanks for all the great insights on the MMM program. I am a little confused about the prerequisite at this point. I emailed Kellogg ADCOM in September and was told there is NO prerequisite required. But from the weblink you provided, there is a prerequisite in probability/statistics.

I did not study statistics in undergrad (nor graduate school). Do I need to enroll at a communitity college in spring for a statistic class?

Thanks

domtri33 · Answer

I would recommend taking a prob and stats class if you can. Though I don't think its explicitly required, it will definately make your life easier when you get here. Also, depending on what you did your undergrad in, it may help your application.

gregarious · Answer

domtri33, I ended up applying to the MMM program and am application complete w/ interview. Do you know if there is any difference as to when MMM applicants will get decisions? I know that the final review process is random and that decisions are released on a rolling basis. Since there's no special requirements, I imagine there isn't any early or later notification but figured I'd ask just in case.

domtri33 · Answer

gregarious, congrats on your decision! Best of luck! As far as notifications go, no, MMM are not on any type of different time line than everyone else. You have to remember, though MMM applications are viewed for both the MEM program and MBA program, most of your classes will be for the MBA so your profile is also evaluated beyond just the other MMM applicants. I know this is a very frustrating and nervous period, but try and relax.....who am I kidding, I was on pins and needles

Again, good luck and hopefully you will get some good news soon.

gregarious · Answer

Found out today that I'm dinged from MMM through the status check. Have to say I'm disappointed but glad that I at least found out relatively early in the month. domtri33, thanks for your advice in this thread and good luck to those still waiting!

domtri33 · Answer

gregarious, sorry to hear that. Best of luck with the rest of your applications.

guille · Answer

domtri, thanks for all the insights on the MMM.

I have been looking for this kind of program due to my Supply Chain background and mi intentions to continue working in Operations/Supply Chain. This made me narrow down my options to LGO at MIT, MMM at Kellogg and the Tauber Institue in UM.

A couple of weeks ago I received the acceptance email from Kellogg, which has made me very happy, since it already covers all I want, but am still waiting for the MIT response to make a final decision. I was going to apply to Ross in R2, but I think MMM is a better choice than Tauber, even if Michigan would offer some scholarship (do you think that too, or a scholarship above 30% would make you change your mind?).

About MIT... do you see MIT's brand name as a big support for the program? What would you think between LGO and MMM? Or even between Sloan MBA vs MMM?

Thank you very much and I hope you all guys have some great holidays.

jzd · Answer

LGO won't release a decision until late March. How will you hold your place of acceptance at the MMM program?

I also applied to the LGO but I have decided not to apply to the MMM only because I "want" to be as close to NYC as possible and Boston is only 4 hours away.

MMM is a fantastic program. The LGO does offer the "6 month partner company internship".

guille · Answer

I can make the deposit in Kellogg until the last day of March. If I haven´t received a final decision from MIT, I will just pay it.

Now, do you know when does LGO sends the invites to interview? If it is like the R1 process, it should be by the end of January/first week of February. Considering that:

If i get an interview, i'll have the answer before the Kellogg deadline, so no problem.
If i get a ding and am derived to R2, and get an invitation to interview for Sloan R2, the decision will be posted after the Kellogg deadline. I'll just pay Kellogg and make a final decision after MIT's response.

I know my chances at LGO are low, since i'm an international (Peru).

jzd · Answer

You are right I believe MIT will start sending out invitation in late January. I think it will work out great for you regarding the deposit deadline since I belive LGO will give you an answer by 3/8/10.

You can't lose.

You can't lose.

domtri33 · Answer

Saw some interesting questions in the applications section about MIT LGO. Just wanted to bump up this thread as a few of the folks interested in LGO may also have some interest in MMM.

mainhoon · Answer

so what is the difference between lgo and mmm? does mmm provide an internship? what are the costs like?

domtri33 · Answer

So I think the biggest difference is that in LGO, you pretty much have to start your post MBA career in manufacturing at whatever company sponsors you. In MMM, there is no such requirement. That being said, as a MMM you also are not sponsored, so you are paying the same tuition as a regular MBA student. As with most regular MBA programs, sponsorships are not "provided" for MMMs. You do however have access to certain opportunities through the program that regular MBAs don't have.

If you look back at my original post on this thread, I think I go into a lot more detail about what exactly the MMM program is all about.

mainhoon · Answer

My understanding is that this is not the case. There is no requirement that you work for the partner companies at all. Its just that you need to do a 6month internship with them.

"So I think the biggest difference is that in LGO, you pretty much have to start your post MBA career in manufacturing at whatever company sponsors you. In MMM, there is no such requirement"

mainhoon · Answer

Can you clarify how are the MMM and the LGO different in terms of flexibility? I am not clear on that. Thanks

mschlanz · Answer

Any more updates on how the LGO porgram compares with MMM from current students? I got in to MMM this year and I am reapplying to LGO as well (after getting an interview last year). I think if I get in to both it will be a very tough decision. I am not sure what I want to do in the future, so I don't really know what school would tailor best to my interests.

Kellogg School of Managemnt - MMM Program

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