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tyemaishu
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LGBT on the Application 30 Sep 2010, 02:42
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YourDreamTheater
Okay, after reading this thread, I feel the need to respond to set the record straight about this issue. I want to make sure that LGBT applicants everywhere know how to handle this issue and aren't riddled with the misinformation found in this thread.


I went to an open-house event exclusively for LGBT students at HBS a few months back, so we literally got an entire day to ask questions about all of this stuff. Let me tell you the gist of what the admissions office said at HBS:

1. Yes, schools love diversity. Therefore, schools do appreciate having people who identify as LGBT within the student body. There is a reason that HBS had an entire open house ONLY for LGBT students - HBS wants LGBT people.. That being said...

2. At a school that is both as highly-ranked and large (in terms of class size) as HBS, disclosing that you are part of the LGBT community doesn't really help you all that much. Since much of the LGBT population is quite talented, driven, and personable, a lot of LGBT students will end up at the top schools. You are bound to be other classmates who are part of the LGBT community.

3. Some people choose to disclose their sexuality on their applications, but others don't. There are a few ways to do this:
- Include it in an essay. Only do this if it something that you're actually passionate about (i.e. a lawyer who fights for LGBT rights, a personal experience that shaped you, etc.) -- don't just throw it in for the "bonus points."
- Include it somehow within your list of college activities and clubs (i.e. a Queer-Alliance type of club)
- Reach out to members of the LGBT student association at the school you are applying to.


That's really it. Please ask if you have any questions.



To clarify a few other points:

1. I can't think of a reason that anyone would "pretend" to be a part of the LGBT community. As stated above, the potential benefits aren't really that great in terms of admissions since there are so many LGBT people who are unbelievably competitive applicants. The potential consequences can be severe, as pretending to be something that you're not is a painful experience. Beyond that, who would honestly want to deal with the ridicule that the LGBT community faces?

2. I am a guy who has a long-term girlfriend, but I still identify as part of the LGBT community. That does not mean that I am faking anything; sexuality lies on a spectrum for many people. We can continue this part of the discussion in the off-topic forum if you have any questions.
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Thanks for the great response.

I don't know why anyone would want to fake being LGBT either. But what would it mean to fake it? The spectrum of LGBT is so great; I'm sure it is possible to consider yourself not lgbt but appear like you are. I'm not making a judgment on this. I'm only answering a question.

I do understand that there are lots of LGB applicants. But I just looked at HBS' LGBT Student Association website. From the FAQ, it looks like that there are no T students. Did you know if that has changed at all? Do you think that is an issue of no T students applying. Or do you think the ones that do are not good candidates.

About being out on the application. How does including being a member of a queer-alliance club or reaching out to the LGBT student association disclose a persons sexuality? There are plenty of straight allies.
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LGBT on the Application 30 Sep 2010, 12:07
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Tyemaishu,

Let me answer your questions in order:

tyemaishu

I don't know why anyone would want to fake being LGBT either. But what would it mean to fake it? The spectrum of LGBT is so great; I'm sure it is possible to consider yourself not lgbt but appear like you are. I'm not making a judgment on this. I'm only answering a question.
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Not really sure what you mean by this. Faking it would imply making yourself known as a member of the LGBT community, but not actually feeling it on the inside.



tyemaishu

I do understand that there are lots of LGB applicants. But I just looked at HBS' LGBT Student Association website. From the FAQ, it looks like that there are no T students. Did you know if that has changed at all? Do you think that is an issue of no T students applying. Or do you think the ones that do are not good candidates.
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I know the definition of the "T" in LGBT is a bit fuzzy for many people, so I need to clarify exactly what I'm talking about. In this context, I am using the word "transgender" to mean someone who has actually been through a sex change operation.
Your statement is correct. HBS has no transgender students, and HBS has never had a transgender applicant. HBS openly said that they are aggressively looking for a transgender candidate. There just aren't too many out there relative to the rest of the population.



tyemaishu
About being out on the application. How does including being a member of a queer-alliance club or reaching out to the LGBT student association disclose a persons sexuality? There are plenty of straight allies.
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Absolutely, and allies are often some of the most important members of the LGBT community. That being said, allies and people who actually identify as LGBT face different challenges in life, so their situations are somewhat different. Many colleges have a club exclusively for people who identify as LGBT, and a completely different club for people who fight for the LGBT community as a whole (this includes allies). Beyond that, the questions that a member of the LGBT community would ask to a LGBT student association would be quite different from questions an ally would ask.

Another great way to disclose sexuality in the admissions box is in the diversity section of the website. When I first created my profile on HBS' website, there was a box to check under the "Diversity" section if you wanted to be notified about LGBT community events or activities. Your application is then linked to the LGBT community from the beginning. This is how I was then notified about the HBS LGBT Open House.
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TwoThrones
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LGBT on the Application 08 Oct 2010, 05:24
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Interesting, I had no idea that being identified with the LBGT is a form of diversity.
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sssdddhhh
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LGBT on the Application 13 Oct 2010, 23:50
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I think the answer to the question about whether or not it is beneficial to let business schools be aware of your LGBT affiliation is a resounding yes. Almost all of the top schools have an LGBT day, just as they do a female applicant day, or an underrepresented minority day. Schools are pushing for diversity, and LGBT issues in the workplace continue to come forward as companies change their perspective.

And as for those who might consider faking it, that's just disappointing.
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LGBT on the Application 14 Oct 2010, 06:10
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Funny thing is I was involved with the Queer Centre at my university, but I decided not to include that in my application because I didn't want it to seem like I was suggesting I'm LGBT when I'm not.
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LGBT on the Application 14 Oct 2010, 06:39
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brainhurt
Funny thing is I was involved with the Queer Centre at my university, but I decided not to include that in my application because I didn't want it to seem like I was suggesting I'm LGBT when I'm not.
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Welcome to the backwards homophobic US!
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tyemaishu
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LGBT on the Application 14 Oct 2010, 17:01
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Aww. I think the US is a little backwards in terms of LGBT issues and there is more to be done'. But I think there are lots of things the US gets right too.
It is not illegal to be gay, you can't be legally imprisoned or executed for being gay.
Equal marriage is being legalized in more states.
In many states transgender people who have sexual reassignment surgery can be issued new birth certificates.
Looks like don't ask, don't tell is being repealed.
There are federal hate crime laws.
And many business schools have special events just for LGBT students.
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LGBT on the Application 14 Oct 2010, 20:32
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tyemaishu

It is not illegal to be gay, you can't be legally imprisoned or executed for being gay.
Equal marriage is being legalized in more states.
In many states transgender people who have sexual reassignment surgery can be issued new birth certificates.
Looks like don't ask, don't tell is being repealed.
There are federal hate crime laws.
And many business schools have special events just for LGBT students.
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So not being illegal or worthy of capitol punishment is progress?
"equal marriage" is illegal in 30 states and legal in ONE
Dont ask Dont Tell just failed in congress
Federal hate crime laws are civil rights laws, 10000% justified, but they can't be considered a push for LGBT equality in the US.

Bottom line America, while ahead of many countries still has a LONG way to to go before you can just brush it off they way you did. And where are you getting your info from? Carl Paladino? or Fox News?

You've done a nice spin job here distracting people from your initial insensitive homophobic remarks. Can we delete this thread BB?
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tyemaishu
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LGBT on the Application 14 Oct 2010, 22:32
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jordanhendrix
tyemaishu

It is not illegal to be gay, you can't be legally imprisoned or executed for being gay.
Equal marriage is being legalized in more states.
In many states transgender people who have sexual reassignment surgery can be issued new birth certificates.
Looks like don't ask, don't tell is being repealed.
There are federal hate crime laws.
And many business schools have special events just for LGBT students.

So not being illegal or worthy of capitol punishment is progress?
"equal marriage" is illegal in 30 states and legal in ONE
Dont ask Dont Tell just failed in congress
Federal hate crime laws are civil rights laws, 10000% justified, but they can't be considered a push for LGBT equality in the US.

Bottom line America, while ahead of many countries still has a LONG way to to go before you can just brush it off they way you did. And where are you getting your info from? Carl Paladino? or Fox News?

You've done a nice spin job here distracting people from your initial insensitive homophobic remarks. Can we delete this thread BB?
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Hi JordanHendrix,

Thanks for posting about this. I'm glad you're so passionate. I understand that you feel some of my comments are insensitive and homophobic. Im sorry you feel that way.

As a post OP (I hit my 18 week mark yesterday, but transitioned like 10 years ago) MTF transgender woman, I definitely consider myself part of the LGBT community. And i started this post to understand if i should talk about my experiences on my application to business school. I'm sad that so many members here feel there is any homophobic tone or intention on this thread.

Ive come across many news articles about LGBT issues. In addition to watching Fox news, I also read the NYTimes, Latimes, Sf Chronicle, and the Economist.

Just last year, Uganda debated legislation to make some homosexual acts capital offenses. https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/10/091016_uganda_aggravated_homosexuality_wt_sl.shtml

Not too long ago 2 teens were executed for being gay in Iran https://www.thenation.com/article/witnesses-execution

I think the fact that this doesn't exist in the US is progress.

Equal marriage is legal in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, New Hampshire, and DC. A judge overturned prop 8 in California, but new marriages haven't been allowed yet. Have any states changed it recently? But you're absolutely right, 30 states do have a constitutional ban on it. But I think the momentum is starting to swing towards more legalization rather than less. https://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/13/opinion/la-oe-cowan-marriage-20101013

On 10/12/10 a federal judge ordered the military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/13/us/13military.html?_r=1&scp=5&sq=don%27t%20ask%20don%27t%20tell&st=cse

October 2009, President Obama signed a law to specifically extend the federal definition of hate crime to cover LGBT people. It is called Matthew Shepard's Law https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114253892 I don't know if it is a push towards equality, But it is a push towards making hatred, and crimes that are motivated by hate towards the LGBT community unacceptable.

For transpeople, the ability to have legal documents changed is tremendous! Most of my friends from other countries had much more difficulty than I did. A super passable friend of mine (seriously so passable, if we weren't in the hospital together I would not know.) has to show people an ID with David as her name, and M as her sex.

I'm not brushing off any of the struggles that all LGBT people face. I do realize that some countries are further ahead then us, and many counties are behind. But as an Asian American person, I know that i would much rather be here than anywhere in Asia.

In the US i have the opportunity to get an MBA. In other countries the most I could hope for is to be the best sex worker. Of course I'm joking about the sex worker thing. But seriously, if you made a list ranking all the countries in the world on LGBT equality. The US would have to be in the top 10. So I feel there is much to be grateful for, and much to be hopeful for in the future.

JordanHendrix, good luck on your applications. We are applying to some of the same schools, so maybe I'll see you around. I'd love it if we could join forces and with our combined MBA powers we could do a lot of change the story of LGBT equality.

Oh and if you'd like to chat more about this or anything let me know.
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LGBT on the Application 15 Oct 2010, 08:01
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^^^ Wow, was not expecting that. Your first post insinuated something different as you can tell by all the replies. I owe you an apology and am truly sorry.
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tyemaishu
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LGBT on the Application 17 Oct 2010, 23:51
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jordanhendrix
^^^ Wow, was not expecting that. Your first post insinuated something different as you can tell by all the replies. I owe you an apology and am truly sorry.
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Jordanhendrix,
No worries about anything. I think it is more my fault than yours. I should have made my post clearer. But thank you so much for the apology. Good luck with your apps.
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LGBT on the Application 22 Oct 2010, 10:14
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This is a topic near and dear close to my heart as a gay male. Without tearing into any one persons comment or echoing the comments of others, I will just state my comment.

As a gay male in this country the perspective I have on everything is different, whether you agree with me or not. Now in terms of business school, why would a school want this type of perspective? It adds to the diversity of the class. I don't think that just by mentioning my sexuality I will get preference over another candidate, and don't believe that I should. But will my perspective on things add value to the class? Most definitely and THAT'S what schools are looking for no matter in what context.

If someone can explain why being heterosexual adds value to a class, go for it. But just remember that 99% of the other people could write about that same thing so how would your story be different?

If "faking" to be gay is how someone wants to get into business school by all means go for it!

i've actually written a couple of posts about this topic on my blog.
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LGBT on the Application 22 Oct 2010, 11:52
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money9111


If someone can explain why being heterosexual adds value to a class, go for it. But just remember that 99% of the other people could write about that same thing so how would your story be different?
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This is neither here nor there, a persons sexuality, LGBT or not, isn't going to add much to a business discussion either way. And not all straight people are the same, I'm sure anyone can add meaningfully to a class regardless of ethnicity, creed or any other factor. That's ultimately what schools are looking for.

As far as faking it goes, I doubt it helps that much if at all. Not to mention its completely unethical.
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LGBT on the Application 22 Oct 2010, 12:03
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1.) are you saying that schools are only interested in how one an add to a business discussion?

2.) there are cases discussed in b-school pertaining to lgbt issues in business. I have one at home from HBS if you'd like to know more about one instance. This being the case one who identifies a lgbt would definitely be able to add a perspective that a non lgbt student would be able to give.

Regarding the whole "fake" thing - I agree it is unethical but if someone wants to do that in their application how does that hurt me personally? It's their application not mine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that checking the box and writing an essay about being gay will get anyone into a particular school because it won't. B-schools are looking for a diversity of thought, experiences, intellect... etc etc. And being gay or identifying as LGBT is just one more thing that adds diversity. That's my only point.
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LGBT on the Application 22 Oct 2010, 12:14
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money9111
Well I disagree with that point on a couple levels.

1.) are you saying that schools are only interested in how one an add to a business discussion? No, I didn't say that, but that is most certainly the focal point

2.) there are cases discussed in b-school pertaining to lgbt issues in business. I have one at home from HBS if you'd like to know more about one instance. This being the case one who identifies a lgbt would definitely be able to add a perspective that a non lgbt student would be able to give. Agree and PM it to me please, I'd sincerely like to read it

Regarding the whole "fake" thing - I agree it is unethical but if someone wants to do that in their application how does that hurt me personally? They could take your spot (if there is such a thing)It's their application not mine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that checking the box and writing an essay about being gay will get anyone into a particular school because it won't.Agree
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LGBT on the Application 22 Oct 2010, 14:25
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I went to the Reaching Out LGBT MBA Conference and they had both a student panel and an admissions panel talk about being out on the application. What I took from it is that being LGBT simply adds to your story. Are they going to see someone who is borderline and then notice "Oh! He's gay lets admit him!"? No. But maybe your experience as an LGBT member is something that makes you a strong character maybe through overcoming challenges, volunteering, etc. LGBT does add diversity to their school and so I think it is looked at similar to ethnicity. No one is admitted or treated more easily because of ethnicity, but it is part of their whole package. Since most schools have LGBT clubs as well, they arelooking for prospective members as they do with all their clubs.
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LGBT on the Application 26 Jan 2011, 22:46
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bruinboi
I went to the Reaching Out LGBT MBA Conference and they had both a student panel and an admissions panel talk about being out on the application. What I took from it is that being LGBT simply adds to your story. Are they going to see someone who is borderline and then notice "Oh! He's gay lets admit him!"? No. But maybe your experience as an LGBT member is something that makes you a strong character maybe through overcoming challenges, volunteering, etc. LGBT does add diversity to their school and so I think it is looked at similar to ethnicity. No one is admitted or treated more easily because of ethnicity, but it is part of their whole package. Since most schools have LGBT clubs as well, they arelooking for prospective members as they do with all their clubs.
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I too was at ROMBA as a prospective applicant! :-) I agree with everything you said.
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LGBT on the Application 26 Jan 2011, 23:21
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I was going to post a whole diatribe about hate, discrimination, and how people today, even in the U.S. (I'm sure we all at least still remember matthew shepard) are the target of violent retribution because of their sexual identity. I was going to end it by saying that I hope that some people here aren't my classmates in b-school, but then again maybe I do. There's always hope for change.
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LGBT on the Application 27 Jan 2011, 00:27
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VictoryMBA
I was going to post a whole diatribe about hate, discrimination, and how people today, even in the U.S. (I'm sure we all at least still remember matthew shepard) are the target of violent retribution because of their sexual identity. I was going to end it by saying that I hope that some people here aren't my classmates in b-school, but then again maybe I do. There's always hope for change.
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I actually have a whole section on my Business school blog related to incidents as such titled "It Gets better": https://money9111.blogspot.com/p/it-gets-better.html

While this is not the forum to discuss such incidents I'm glad that I have an outlet that is related to b-school where I can shed some light on these situations.
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LGBT on the Application 28 Jan 2011, 00:00
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Sailorette
I love YourDreamTheater's insight into the HBS information above.

For most of the LGBT-identifying people I know, their personal development and sense of self is largely shaped by the challenges currently faced in our world to those who are LGBT. Thus, it would naturally work its way into any essay that asks about how you got to where you are now, and where you want to go in the future. It can be a pretty defining thing for many people, and I don't think anyone could successfully fake that in an application.

I also concur with YDT's analysis that the LGBT pool of applicants is an impressive one, and one that you would not necessarily want to put yourself in. If HBS is wanting a representative class body that reflects actual worldwide demographics, I think you'd be upping the competition to get in by trying to use some sort of 'LGBT angle'.
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totally agree - it's important because of the story of self discovery, and personal growth. When schools want to know who you are - this could be an important part of one's identity.
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