Miracles & Calculations

I don't think you can tell by reading forums if an applicant with less than stellar stats got into HBS, then it's a miracle. Forums are good for getting a basic idea of what schools are good targets. By reviewing the past profiles of people on forums you can select matches based on your scores, GPA, and WE. However, profiles are just snapshots. For instance, GPA is not necessarily an accurate reflection of the courseload an applicant actually took on in college. WE can't really be summed up by one line. In addition there are the essays, interviews and recs. And I agree with shadowsjc that quotas often play a big role.

You guys bring up a good point. What constitutes solid work experience if you're not a banker or consultant? I certainly ask because I am neither one.

I'm neither a banker, nor a consultant. I'm a lawyer. I'm not even sure what my pool would be at HBS. In my view, a good WE is where you've made some positive contributions through the work you've done. This is distinct from what you've learnt, which of course must also come into play. If you can demonstrate that you've achieved something more than a paycheck and bonus from your WE then that might be considered a good WE.

Ususally less than half of an incoming class will be bankers and consultants. Many who work at bulge brackets and top consulting firms don't need to go to bschool to accomplish what their career goals. Instead the finance people who go to bschools ususally come from smaller ibanks and consulting firms, accounting, PWM and corp dev backgrounds. I think this is especially true of schools outside of H/W/S, as many who had good ibanking and consulting jobs wouldn't really consider admission to any other schools to be comparable with their other career options if they don't go to bschool. I'm not saying you won't find a Goldman or MS banker at CBS, NYU, Chicago, etc. but definitely few.

I think good WE is anything that has an impact, something that you can tell a good story about. It's also crucial to learn and progress upwards. If you've changed careers and firms, you need to justify why. This can encompass a lot of careers outside of finance, anything from teaching to IT.

Here's what I learned so far as a 1st year in bschool:

Unlike top law schools, or top med schools (or any other top graduate programs), MBA programs are slightly different in terms of admissions. Yes, it will help you if you have superb undergrad GPA, GMAT score, extra curricular and recommendation letters. These 4 factors (substituting GMAt score for another test score) will probably matter the most for other top graduate programs such as law school and etc. This was also true for undergraduate admissions, and as a result (because we are sooo used to this kind of evaluation) MBA applicants are shocked when he or she is denied of admissions to a top school even with top grades, scores, extra curricular and etc.

Also, in many circumstances, applicants determine their target schools based on the outcome of his or her GMAT score. And why not? Law school admissions is highly based on high LSAT score! (among other things) A student can't reasonably expect to get into a top medical program without a high MCAT score. So why is it wrong for bschool applicants to shoot higher when he or she scores a superb GMAT score after months of hard work?

The answer probably lies in the key difference between bschools and other graduate programs mentioned above. For example, many college graduates can head directly to these other gradudate programs without any work experience. With just a college diploma and a test score in hand, he or she can apply right out of school. But the same can't be said for many top MBA programs. Although some schools are offering admissions to college seniors, MBA programs are traditionally reserved for experienced and inexperienced professionals (with gap in years between college and bschool).

Sure, it wasn't always like this. Back in 1970's, many top business schools accepted college seniors straight out of college. But as a result of change in trend (where recruiters favored experienced bschool candidates over inexperienced college seniors) in the last 25-30 years or so (estimating), bschools began to require work experience as part of one's admissions requirement.

Although that trend is reversing a bit (some bschools are favoring younger applicants), the effect of this change remains today. When one speaks of a MBA grad from top bschools such as HBS, Wharton, Stanford, Booth, Kellogg, CBS, Haas, Tuck etc etc, immediately one has an image of highly skilled, competent, overachieveing and all-around individual (sort of like 5-Tool prospect in baseball) as a result of already accomplished individuals entering and graduating top bschools in the last 20 years. (and exceeding expectation of employers upon graduation)

When bschools are selecting candidates for their incoming class, they are still looking for these intangible qualities in addition to high test scores, GPA and other statistics. For example, when an applicant interviews with an alum or adcom during the admissions process, the interviewer wants to see some of these intangible qualities (not demonstrated in your application package) during the interview. Some say that image is everything (regardless of whether one can back it up or not), but perhaps this is true to a degree. If an individual is a superb candidate with high IQ and etc, but lacks communication skills (and this can be transparent during the interview), it can be fatal to an applicant regardless of whether that applicant can more than handle the rigorous curriculum. (same thing if he or she can't write and submits a crappy essay) They are really looking for all stars with ambition, charisma, intelligence, vision, curiosity, etc etc.......the kind of people that they believe CAN REPRESENT THE BRAND of the bschool. After all, you will become part of the school and based on your success, it will affect the future image of the bschool.

So when crafting your application, communicate that you are more than just a brain. Communicate that during the interview, and throughout the admissions process until you receive that admit. Some people can communicate these intangible qualities naturally, while others need to prep themselves a little bit to bring these qualities out to the surface.

thanks nink for your detailed response

I read an interview of Dean Jay Light of HBS and he requested his students to be good ambassadors. MBAs are really expected to hit the ground running. Companies do not have the time, nor can afford the finances of training managers. They let the B-Schools do that and expect a turnkey solution in place for their managerial personnel requirements. B-schools also have to look at their finances and might prefer candidates who they know will deliver - to the companies and to the school's endowment fund. It really works well for all the three parties - the candidate gets to earn a fortune, the companies get an efficient manager, and the school gets the finances to expand and the pride to hold their head high.

So a good WE means that there's a primer on the candidates already, and the b-school need only to put up the layers of paint and polish. And then it's up to the companies to regularly buff them to a shine