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Past present question

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woohoo921
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Past present question [#permalink] New post   07 Jan 2023, 10:58
Manhattan Prep says:
If two actions in a sentence occurred at DIFFERENT times in the PAST, use past perfect tense for the EARLIER ACTION and simple past for the LATER action.
■ Past perfect= HAD + past participle
● Example: The film HAD STARTED by the time we ARRIVED.
○ To use past perfect for one event, the sentence must contain a second event that occurred later than the first event, but still in the past. One way to do this is via a verb in the simple

So, if you want to say that the film started before we started to eat popcorn (with the popcorn eating continuing into the present), you cannot use past perfect tense if one event is in the present?
In other words you cannot say: "The film had started before we have started to eat the popcorn." You would just say: "The film started before we have started to eat the eat the popcorn."

Am I on the right track?
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ReedArnoldMPREP
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Past present question [#permalink] New post   12 Jan 2023, 07:23
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woohoo921 wrote:
Manhattan Prep says:
If two actions in a sentence occurred at DIFFERENT times in the PAST, use past perfect tense for the EARLIER ACTION and simple past for the LATER action.
■ Past perfect= HAD + past participle
● Example: The film HAD STARTED by the time we ARRIVED.
○ To use past perfect for one event, the sentence must contain a second event that occurred later than the first event, but still in the past. One way to do this is via a verb in the simple

So, if you want to say that the film started before we started to eat popcorn (with the popcorn eating continuing into the present), you cannot use past perfect tense if one event is in the present?
In other words you cannot say: "The film had started before we have started to eat the popcorn." You would just say: "The film started before we have started to eat the eat the popcorn."

Am I on the right track?


You wouldn't use the present perfect ("have started") in that instance.

You'd say if it was all past tense: "The film had started before we began to eat the popcorn."

It's pretty rare to need to combine the past tense and the present tense in a sequence like the one you're suggesting. You'd probably say something like, "We started to eat the popcorn, and now the film is starting."

You could probably mix present-perfect and present: "The film has started before we begin eating popcorn."

Only "The film had started before we began to eat the popcorn" feels GMAT-like to me though.
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Past present question [#permalink] New post   18 Jan 2023, 14:30
woohoo921 I am not expert but my thoughts

- I don’t think you can mix past perfect WITH past perfect

woohoo921 wrote:
In other words you cannot say: "The film had started before we have started to eat the popcorn."

You would just say: "The film started before we have started to eat the eat the popcorn."


Both the blue sentences are confusing to me because of the word “before (underlined)”

Are you using “Before” intentionally?

Remember if you use “BEFORE” – you don’t even need to use past perfect with past tense.

When the sequences are clear, you can drop the past perfect entirely and just use - two past tenses.

ReedArnoldMPREP wrote:
You'd say if it was all past tense: "The film had started before we began to eat the popcorn."


Reed – not sure I agree with this, given the presence of the word “before” – the sequence is clear.

You could/ should (not sure?) DROP the "past perfect" if the sequence is clear

Sentence - The film had started before we began to eat the popcorn.

The sequence is clear

My 2 cents for what its worth
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Past present question [#permalink] New post   18 Jan 2023, 14:41
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jabhatta2 wrote:
woohoo921 I am not expert but my thoughts

- I don’t think you can mix past perfect WITH past perfect

woohoo921 wrote:
In other words you cannot say: "The film had started before we have started to eat the popcorn."

You would just say: "The film started before we have started to eat the eat the popcorn."


Both the blue sentences are confusing to me because of the word “before (underlined)”

Are you using “Before” intentionally?

Remember if you use “BEFORE” – you don’t even need to use past perfect with past tense.

When the sequences are clear, you can drop the past perfect entirely and just use - two past tenses.

ReedArnoldMPREP wrote:
You'd say if it was all past tense: "The film had started before we began to eat the popcorn."


Reed – not sure I agree with this, given the presence of the word “before” – the sequence is clear.

You could/ should (not sure?) DROP the "past perfect" if the sequence is clear

Sentence - The film had started before we began to eat the popcorn.

The sequence is clear

My 2 cents for what its worth


Eh, I think either would be fine? If it's wrong, I've never seen a GMAT problem that is wrong because 'before' is mixed with 'past-perfect,' but if one exists, I won't be shocked either.

Truth be told, you probably could even use past-perfect for the verb *after* 'before.'

"The film started before we had begun to eat the popcorn."

A rare use where the past-perfect comes *after* the past tense. Don't think I've seen it on the GMAT.
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Past present question [#permalink]
18 Jan 2023, 14:41
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