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Question

Hello, I have a long post.

Ethnicity, Nationality: White, American Age: 23 (24 when I apply, 25 at Matriculation) Gender: M Undergrad: 2.8 Top 10 engineering program (Civil and Environmental, Business Minor) upward trending (3.4 senior year!) WE: 18m (22-24 when I hope to apply, 36 at Matriculation) GMAT: Planned Feb-April '11 (just started studying - initial score without studying = 630. Figuring I can go 700+) EC: College -Habitat for Humanity, new student orientation leader, ASCE, yearbook photographer, intramural sports (basketball, football, soccer) Post grad -Not much since college, a few soup kitchen trips but nothing significant I started working for a medium sized (500-1000 employees) General Contracting firm 2 weeks after graduation, and have worked on multiple $100M projects. In the process, I was quickly promoted from Field Engineer to Project Engineer. My next promotion won't occur for another 3-4 years, or when I get my PE license (3 more years, assuming i pass on first try). My current project will last for 3-4 more years, and hasn't really placed me in a area of the world I want to be (town of >2000 people, southern WV), and requires a 5-6 hour drive on Sundays and Fridays :cry:

Consequently, I've been looking to getting my MBA in the future, so I can get out of this industry and into GM, However, given my young(ish) age and low GPA, I am by no means guaranteed a spot at a top tier program, and really don't want to be sitting out my experience in this company. I've made a few good contacts, and have looked into a switch to the design side of engineering. However, this isn't exactly what I want to be doing post-MBA. I also have good contacts at a F50 company that wants to help me get into project management for consumer goods, but i don't know how easily that will be accomplished. Don't really know if you answer questions here, but if you do - here are a few: I'm starting to think that it'll be another 2-3 years before I'm realistically considered at my target schools. Is this correct in your opinion? Do you think switching to design (lateral in terms of rank, but a drop off on the number of people i manage) would hurt my resume? Why or why not? Would a switch to PM in the F50 company be a better move? I assume I'll be able to get rec's from my current manager, as he knows my ultimate plan to go get MBA, but I can't assume I'll make as good contacts in my next job in time for apps. Who else can i use for recs? I know if I switch this would be a good use of the extra essay section, but I was already planning on using that for a different weak part of my resume; I slacked off a lot in college :oops:

Do you think the combo of a low GPA + a job switch after 1.5 years will be too much to overcome? Moving on, my dream school is Wharton, but i also am interested in (in order) Kellogg, Fuqua, Stern, Johnson, and Yale. Are there any others i should look at? Would a 700 put me in range of these? 730? Thank you in advance for taking time out of your day to answer :-D

kingfalcon · Answer

For the record, I am by no means a professional. I'm just someone who likewise has done a lot of research into what it takes to get into business school. That said, I think I've learned enough to pass a little along.

In general, I think your challenges (and suggested improvements) are going to be:

Very young (work longer)
 Low GPA (consider building an alternate transcript via calculus/finance/statistics courses; even with a monster GMAT like 750+, I think you're still going to raise some red flags here)
 Poor ECs (get involved ASAP in one activity and take a leadership position)

In response to your question, I think switching laterally to a design position and thereby managing fewer people might confuse the adcom. If it's part of your overall "story," though, then go for it. Plus, you should do what makes you happy since that's where you will shine the most.

If by PM, you mean Project Manager, then that could be a very wise move. B schools want to see leadership and, frankly, I'm not seeing any at the moment.

I would say your best chances would (obviously) be at Yale and Johnson, but Yale prides itself on its nonprofit focus and you have done nothing to show you would be a fit with that culture. Unfortunately, I don't know much about Johnson. As I said before, I am absolutely not an expert, but I think Wharton/Kellogg/Stern/Fuqua are all MAJOR stretches even with a 700 GMAT and Yale is currently unlikely, too.

Sorry to burst your bubble,
kingfalcon

hamm0 · Answer

Thank you for the the honest assessment.

I'd like to comment on some of your points, if you don't mind.

I understand I'm young - just looking ahead. I plan on applying for class of 2015 or 2016.
 
I agree that I will raise some flags, and am planning on nailing down a couple As in Calc/Stats. I have a business minor from college which I did well in accounting/finance.
 
Would you really say poor? I have 3 years work with Special Olympics in a leadership position, 3 years in orientation as a leader, and a bunch of non-leader volunteer work. It is tough for me to add ECs as I'm constantly on the road, moving project to project with work.
 
The switch is easily woven into my story, as I have a strong interest in the energy field, and the switch to design is in the nuclear energy division of a large F500 contractor. I don't see an issue tying that in to my "story". 
 
I do mean project manager. It would be a stretch for me to obtain that position (as I'm starting to find out), but if I could, I imagine I'll leap at the opportunity. As far as not seeing any leadership, I guess I didn't explain it correctly. I manage different aspects of these projects, often solely responsible for $25M+ sub-contract management. I create project schedules, budgets, purchasing, manage labor/safety, etc. I have always thought that this current position offered me more leadership opportunities than other careers at this level. Is this what you meant by leadership?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I just think that I did not do a good job at portraying a clear picture of where I am/what I do for the initial analysis. I would really appreciate any further comments.

kingfalcon · Answer

Happy to (try to) help. You have to remember that the only information I had was that which you put in the OP of this thread.

"I understand I'm young - just looking ahead. I plan on applying for class of 2015 or 2016." 
You did say you wanted to matriculate at 25 with 36 months (in this case, I say only because I think the inexperience hurts your chances at those schools). I think waiting until then is definitely wiser.

"I agree that I will raise some flags, and am planning on nailing down a couple As in Calc/Stats. I have a business minor from college which I did well in accounting/finance."
Sounds like a good plan. As I mentioned before, doing well on the GMAT and playing up your quant skills vis a vis your work experience would help, too.

"Would you really say poor? I have 3 years work with Special Olympics in a leadership position, 3 years in orientation as a leader, and a bunch of non-leader volunteer work. It is tough for me to add ECs as I'm constantly on the road, moving project to project with work."
Are you the same person as the OP? Haha. Your 'ECs' line doesn't play up the leadership at all. For the record, my research has taught me that ECs are the most difficult to judge between candidates since there's no real way to normalize it and some candidates (your typical i-banker or consultant, for example) simply can't volunteer because of the demands placed on them by their jobs.

"The switch is easily woven into my story, as I have a strong interest in the energy field, and the switch to design is in the nuclear energy division of a large F500 contractor. I don't see an issue tying that in to my "story". "
It sounds like it would be explainable, but you'd may want to somehow acknowledge in your essays that you chose to move out of a managerial capacity and have clear reasons why.

"I create project schedules, budgets, purchasing, manage labor/safety, etc. I have always thought that this current position offered me more leadership opportunities than other careers at this level. Is this what you meant by leadership?"
That is definitely leadership.

If I may be allowed to make a sweeping generalization based on your one post, it's that you don't yet know how to present yourself in the best light. There's nothing wrong with that, especially since you're very early on in the process, but that is the feeling I got. I think those skills will definitely develop the more you think about what makes you different and what makes you stand out from a leadership perspective. I would think if you can get that GMAT up near the mean of those schools (700-720), you'll have a decent shot and if you can manage to kill it (750+), it will put to rest a lot of potential fears about your quant skills.

hamm0 · Answer

Thanks for the extra reply. I know my original post isn't the most helpful thing in the world - I promise I'm the same person as the original post, though!

One thing I'm obviously working on (learning too, it sounds like) is how to paint myself in the most attractive light possible. The original post I wrote when just starting this grueling process, and now am becoming more savvy as to how to portray my profile. Still lots to learn, though. I'll focus on GMAT for now, and if I can score 730+ I think I'll try to put in a app or 2 for 2013, just to try to get some kinks out/work though the process. If that does not succeed, I'll definitely try to take some extra classes/apply for the class 2014 and hopefully stick at one of my targets. And who knows about how well this plan will go; the road to success is always under construction. Kudos to you, sir. Thank you.

kingfalcon · Answer

No problem. I'm happy to help and sorry if I was a little pessimistic with MY first message. I'm diggin' the avatar, too. I love the Bay Area (although I recently moved away).

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