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RIP, MBA

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Director
Director
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 797

Kudos [?]: 147 [0], given: 9

Location: Texas
Schools: Kellogg Class of 2011
Re: RIP, MBA [#permalink]

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New post 08 May 2009, 06:46
AlexMBAApply wrote:
jb32,

Just because the regulatory body has shown incompetence doesn't mean that regulation is unnecessary. The problem is in the execution, and not in the fundamental principle that there needs to be some rules in the financial industry.

Yes, gov't screws things up, but that doesn't mean gov't is unnecessary - unless you're an anarchist.

You see, jb32, in your world since the justice system is screwed up, we shouldn't bother having any laws against murder, theft, assault, etc. because hey, the criminals rarely get the proper sentencing, or even worse that the justice system is rigged. Forget jails. Who needs laws or courts to interpret the laws and settle cases? Let the mob mentality rule. We don't need standards at all, because every single human being has the same standard when it comes to behavior. One guy believes that being with a 16 year old isn't pedophilia. Another guy feels it should be 18. We'll let good old Darwin decide.

To use your perspective -- because the justice system is rigged, we don't need laws at all. Screw contract law, because lawyers always foul it up. If we had a free-for-all where murder, rape, assault, theft, wasn't outlawed, everything would be just as peachy as it is today. In fact, it's the justice system that gets in the way.

Police? We don't need the police if they are corrupt (i.e. in your view, rather than "fix the police" you just want to get rid of the police altogether because you feel that citizens can enforce the laws themselves).

Now, you may think that it's apples and oranges.

It isn't.

Laws and regulations by definition exist to manage behavior in a civil society - whether that arena is social or economic. We need rules - to manage and influence behavior, whether they are violent or non-violent (the only difference between corporate malfeasance or grand theft are the perpetrators - the behavior fundamentally is the same).

To take a fatalistic view, throw your hands up and say, "it's all futile, gov't sucks so therefore there shouldn't be any" is a cop out. It's the kind of cynical attitude that has the potential to lead someone to justify bad behavior (not saying you'd actually go out and rip people off or to abuse your power...). To be blunt, it's cynical "gov't is for losers" viewpoints like yours that many people on Wall Street share (where I used to work) that makes it much easier to justify bad behavior. If you don't fundamentally believe in having rules or you believe that you can regulate your own behavior, you will find it easier to justify irresponsible behavior (or even illegal and unethical behavior). It's slow descent into nihilism. Wall Street and the financial industry needs stronger regulation, and it needs stronger enforcement of such regulation. To continue to let the inmates run the asylum isn't a solution - it's a cop out and excuse for doing nothing. Giving bankers more candy won't encourage responsible behavior - you need rules and regulations to *discourage* irresponsible behavior.

Yes, the SEC needs reform. Government needs reform. And it will never, ever be perfect. Nor will it ever be truly competent. But its very existence in enforcing laws and regulations, however imperfectly or perversely, is a far more civil world than the alternative that you are suggesting - which is anarchy.

Again, if you're an anarchist, fine - I'm sure then you don't believe we should have any court system, any laws, any law enforcement, or any legal apparatus whatsoever.

Thanks for the arrogant response Alex where you make many (incorrect) assumptions about my beliefs on government. Just because I'm a Libertarian is no reason to attack me on this forum. Now, if you want to have a real discussion where you don't belittle my thoughts, I'd be happy to have it, but I won't take being insulted as some kind of anarchist. That kind of disrespect is not welcome on these boards. I know you've contributed some valuable content to this site, but this is not acceptable.

I'm just saying that the incompetence is very real and will continue as long as government continues to do things the same way it always has. Regulating Wall Street is not like regulating farmers or the oil industry. These people are much smarter than the people tasked with enforcing the rules. Unless they get some of those same people and pay them a decent wage to do it, they will always be one step behind. I'm advocating a new approach because obviously the old way wasn't working very well. Continuing the same policy that doesn't work is the very definition of stupidity. Unfortunately, government has a very long record of this same sort of behavior. I'm just saying it's time to rock the boat and think outside the box for a completely different solution. Sadly, the kind of reform that might actually work will never occur.

Kudos [?]: 147 [0], given: 9

Director
Director
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Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 885

Kudos [?]: 144 [0], given: 29

Location: Earth
Schools: Cornell '11
Re: RIP, MBA [#permalink]

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New post 08 May 2009, 07:11
jb32, you might have overreacted to Alex's reply a bit. I dont really think he was attacking you. You are part of a debate and that is usually what happens in debates. He didnt make fun of you and he didnt call you stupid, he just laid out his problem with your view (or what he interpreted to be your view)....if he misinterpreted your stance show him in a rebuttal. Personally, I dont see his post as report worthy. A far cry from the BW jerkiness.
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Kudos [?]: 144 [0], given: 29

Director
Director
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Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 751

Kudos [?]: 232 [0], given: 8

Location: Oxford
Schools: Oxford'10
Re: RIP, MBA [#permalink]

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New post 08 May 2009, 07:19
Hi Guys,

the two of you are awesome contributors to this community, and I enjoy reading both of your contributions. I think i'll step in an say that it'd be best to agree to disagree at this stage :-D , since heated politics debates normally are separatist by their very nature.

Raabend is right in the sense that the whole ethos of this place is to help each other constructively in achieving goals that one might not necessarily achieve by ones self.

Kudos [?]: 232 [0], given: 8

Current Student
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 3351

Kudos [?]: 319 [0], given: 2

Location: New York City
Schools: Wharton'11 HBS'12
Re: RIP, MBA [#permalink]

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New post 08 May 2009, 08:19
jb32 wrote:
Thanks for the arrogant response Alex where you make many (incorrect) assumptions about my beliefs on government. Just because I'm a Libertarian is no reason to attack me on this forum. Now, if you want to have a real discussion where you don't belittle my thoughts, I'd be happy to have it, but I won't take being insulted as some kind of anarchist. That kind of disrespect is not welcome on these boards. I know you've contributed some valuable content to this site, but this is not acceptable.

I'm just saying that the incompetence is very real and will continue as long as government continues to do things the same way it always has. Regulating Wall Street is not like regulating farmers or the oil industry. These people are much smarter than the people tasked with enforcing the rules. Unless they get some of those same people and pay them a decent wage to do it, they will always be one step behind. I'm advocating a new approach because obviously the old way wasn't working very well. Continuing the same policy that doesn't work is the very definition of stupidity. Unfortunately, government has a very long record of this same sort of behavior. I'm just saying it's time to rock the boat and think outside the box for a completely different solution. Sadly, the kind of reform that might actually work will never occur.


you forgot ...and that you are from texas so we automatically hate you.. :)

haha...just stirring the pot

Kudos [?]: 319 [0], given: 2

CEO
CEO
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 3454

Kudos [?]: 919 [0], given: 781

Re: RIP, MBA [#permalink]

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New post 08 May 2009, 09:13
this thread has outlived its purpose. we all need to contribute just a little bit of restraint - seek a clarification instead of passing judgment.

I am not asking you to be meek - you can have strong and relevant opinions, and yet be nice to others.

Kudos [?]: 919 [0], given: 781

Re: RIP, MBA   [#permalink] 08 May 2009, 09:13

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