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Current Student
Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 82
Own Kudos [?]: 51 [0]
Given Kudos: 30
Location: Netherlands
Concentration: General Management, Finance
GMAT 1: 690 Q45 V40
GRE 1: Q168 V156
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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 2456
Own Kudos [?]: 1369 [3]
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Concentration: Operations, Strategy
Schools: Erasmus (II)
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Current Student
Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 82
Own Kudos [?]: 51 [3]
Given Kudos: 30
Location: Netherlands
Concentration: General Management, Finance
GMAT 1: 690 Q45 V40
GRE 1: Q168 V156
Send PM
Founder
Founder
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 37792
Own Kudos [?]: 74124 [1]
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Location: United States (WA)
GMAT 1: 750 Q49 V42
GPA: 3
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RSM, Bocconi or ESADE? (Msc Management) [#permalink]
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Expert Reply
Congratulations on making your decision!

Also, if you are going to try to get residency/citizenship, it is likely that The Netherlands will require language proficiency.

At the same time, any time i ever visited Amsterdam or Den Hague or Rotterdam, everyone always spoke perfect English.... P.S. For a while, Rotterdam was one of my favorite cities in Europe - i have not been in a super long time but I am certain you will have a great time!
Current Student
Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 82
Own Kudos [?]: 51 [1]
Given Kudos: 30
Location: Netherlands
Concentration: General Management, Finance
GMAT 1: 690 Q45 V40
GRE 1: Q168 V156
Send PM
Re: RSM, Bocconi or ESADE? (Msc Management) [#permalink]
1
Kudos
bb wrote:
Congratulations on making your decision!

Also, if you are going to try to get residency/citizenship, it is likely that The Netherlands will require language proficiency.

At the same time, any time i ever visited Amsterdam or Den Hague or Rotterdam, everyone always spoke perfect English.... P.S. For a while, Rotterdam was one of my favorite cities in Europe - i have not been in a super long time but I am certain you will have a great time!

Thanks!

I am aware of the immigration laws there and I think you need to stay there for 5 years without any hiatus to be eligible for Dutch residency. The Netherlands does not allow dual citizenship as well, and this makes decisions somewhat harder (Dutch passport is fantastic for travelling though). Honestly speaking I am aware that my chance is London is very slim, knowing that UK have great B schools and therefore makes no sense for those companies to recruit from RSM unless they need to cover the Benelux area. I conclude that the only realistic career path for me is to work in Netherlands.

May I ask what is the reputation of RSM in general among continental Europe's B schools in your opinion? I am kinda aware that they are sort of around two notches below the likes of HEC and OxBridge, but I hope you can give me your two cents anyway. I will spend my whole savings for this degree and is somewhat worried on what I can get from this.



Sent from my SM-G935F using GMAT Club Forum mobile app
Founder
Founder
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 37792
Own Kudos [?]: 74124 [1]
Given Kudos: 19897
Location: United States (WA)
GMAT 1: 750 Q49 V42
GPA: 3
Send PM
Re: RSM, Bocconi or ESADE? (Msc Management) [#permalink]
1
Kudos
Expert Reply
RSM is a big of a fallen angel. Erasmus was a strong brand with good reputation. Many knew of it and many probably still remember it but it has not fared well in rankings in the last 10 years (for some reason). It is recovering however, and can definitely get up a number of spots by the time you graduate (It improved by 9! last year). I would let the employment and average GMAT scores serve as the measurements of its success (I am not familiar with either) but traditionally among more seasoned folks (who likely will be recruiting/hiring you), it should ring a bell in Amsterdam, London, and Paris.


jxav wrote:
bb wrote:
Congratulations on making your decision!

Also, if you are going to try to get residency/citizenship, it is likely that The Netherlands will require language proficiency.

At the same time, any time i ever visited Amsterdam or Den Hague or Rotterdam, everyone always spoke perfect English.... P.S. For a while, Rotterdam was one of my favorite cities in Europe - i have not been in a super long time but I am certain you will have a great time!

Thanks!

I am aware of the immigration laws there and I think you need to stay there for 5 years without any hiatus to be eligible for Dutch residency. The Netherlands does not allow dual citizenship as well, and this makes decisions somewhat harder (Dutch passport is fantastic for travelling though). Honestly speaking I am aware that my chance is London is very slim, knowing that UK have great B schools and therefore makes no sense for those companies to recruit from RSM unless they need to cover the Benelux area. I conclude that the only realistic career path for me is to work in Netherlands.

May I ask what is the reputation of RSM in general among continental Europe's B schools in your opinion? I am kinda aware that they are sort of around two notches below the likes of HEC and OxBridge, but I hope you can give me your two cents anyway. I will spend my whole savings for this degree and is somewhat worried on what I can get from this.



Sent from my SM-G935F using GMAT Club Forum mobile app
Current Student
Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 82
Own Kudos [?]: 51 [1]
Given Kudos: 30
Location: Netherlands
Concentration: General Management, Finance
GMAT 1: 690 Q45 V40
GRE 1: Q168 V156
Send PM
Re: RSM, Bocconi or ESADE? (Msc Management) [#permalink]
1
Kudos
bb wrote:
RSM is a big of a fallen angel. Erasmus was a strong brand with good reputation. Many knew of it and many probably still remember it but it has not fared well in rankings in the last 10 years (for some reason). It is recovering however, and can definitely get up a number of spots by the time you graduate (It improved by 9! last year). I would let the employment and average GMAT scores serve as the measurements of its success (I am not familiar with either) but traditionally among more seasoned folks (who likely will be recruiting/hiring you), it should ring a bell in Amsterdam, London, and Paris.


jxav wrote:
bb wrote:
Congratulations on making your decision!

Also, if you are going to try to get residency/citizenship, it is likely that The Netherlands will require language proficiency.

At the same time, any time i ever visited Amsterdam or Den Hague or Rotterdam, everyone always spoke perfect English.... P.S. For a while, Rotterdam was one of my favorite cities in Europe - i have not been in a super long time but I am certain you will have a great time!

Thanks!

I am aware of the immigration laws there and I think you need to stay there for 5 years without any hiatus to be eligible for Dutch residency. The Netherlands does not allow dual citizenship as well, and this makes decisions somewhat harder (Dutch passport is fantastic for travelling though). Honestly speaking I am aware that my chance is London is very slim, knowing that UK have great B schools and therefore makes no sense for those companies to recruit from RSM unless they need to cover the Benelux area. I conclude that the only realistic career path for me is to work in Netherlands.

May I ask what is the reputation of RSM in general among continental Europe's B schools in your opinion? I am kinda aware that they are sort of around two notches below the likes of HEC and OxBridge, but I hope you can give me your two cents anyway. I will spend my whole savings for this degree and is somewhat worried on what I can get from this.



Sent from my SM-G935F using GMAT Club Forum mobile app

Can't agree more, I found several 10 years old+ discussion pages and it even tops HEC in terms of prestige 10 years ago. I think B schools competition has been more intensive in the past 10 years and RSM has not bode well with the competition. RSM's placements and marketing have not been great and it seems a recent change in management has changed some things for the better. FYI average GMAT for Msc in RSM is 650 according to their 2016-2017 official brochure. I may be enrolling here but lets be objective, RSM's placements & salary have not been too stellar compared with European B schools of similar level according to the reports (ESSEC, Bocconi, etc).

This fallen angel stuff definitely involve a variety of factors from RSM's own internal management to Netherlands' circumstances (economy, policies, etc). Im not too familiar with EU countries companies, policies or economies but logically speaking it is very difficult to compete with B schools that originated from stronger economies such as UK (not sure about France and Netherlands comparison) as they have more 'decent local jobs' and MNCs (ofc English being the universal language helps intl students as well). In the end students aim for better career prospects, I think RSM being located in Netherlands is already a disadvantage as compared to its competitors. Anyway this is getting off topic, thanks a lot for your tips!

Sent from my SM-G935F using GMAT Club Forum mobile app
SVP
SVP
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 2456
Own Kudos [?]: 1369 [1]
Given Kudos: 641
Concentration: Operations, Strategy
Schools: Erasmus (II)
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RSM, Bocconi or ESADE? (Msc Management) [#permalink]
1
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jxav wrote:
Hi there,

Sorry for an awfully late reply. I decided to accept RSM offer and have started learning Dutch.

I looked through their career website and some linkedin and concludes that it seems a lot of decent internships/jobs requires Dutch proficiency to a certain degree. I dont mind on putting a lot of effort on learning Dutch, but I cannot guarantee a working level proficiency within a year unless I am being exposed by Dutch on a daily basis. I heard most Dutch in Rotterdam kinda reluctant to speak Dutch with foreigners as well.

I searched through the LinkedIn and RSM websites, and it seems most graduates that obtain decent jobs are mainly EU citizens. I conclude that Its either the international students do not put enough effort to learn Dutch, the level of Dutch required in workplace there in general is high or there might be some other factors such as some bias to EU citizens (or a mixture of everything). I wonder if you can shed me some light on this regard?

Thanks a lot for your previous info btw!


Hi jxav

I'm happy to help. I'm happy to help. I'm somehow linked to the Netherlands and RSM :) I may see if I apply to the MBA program for Jan 2018.

I have many friends from country who work for Dutch companies. They are engineers who work in Project management field, Petroleum field or IT. They have been there for years now and enjoying their lives with families and kids. Most of them reside in Rotterdam, The Hague or Amsterdam. Most of them, if not all, does not speak Dutch at all but one of them decided to do so for future careers and lives with kids in schools. BY the way, he study Dutch for free. There are some centers in The Hague who integrate immigrants in the community. You can clearly consider this as option when you go to Rotterdam.

When I decided to search within The Netherlands, I searched a lot and let my friends ask their Dutch senior management and the reply was one: RSM is the management destination in the Netherlands, something I assured when I contacted other schools there but their reply and program was not compared to RSM. However, RSM has certainly fallen along the years compared to other schools in Europe. The competitiveness among business schools are tough. Also, within 2008 crisis, countries suffered a lot and lot of its schools did as well. Last Feb 2017, I had F-2-F meeting with the Dean of RSM as he is a professor in an EMBA program in my country in partner with RSM. He was very humble. We spent 1.5 hrs talking about many things. I liked him also because we share same field supply chain and operations management field as I'm consultant. They are aware of the problem and they have plan to overhaul the school as I understood. Today for example, they issues new mission statement. I have seen new things in it.

Coming to the salaries for your master, I do not have reliable info about students with Msc. But you mentioned that good job goes to EU citizens. I do not know but it may be true for the WE that those students possess. But you still young and can establish yourself in a first job and you career will evolve with time. I asked my friends also in and assured the same range of salaries in MBA level for both local and immigrants and so I may assume the same for entry. The Netherlands work system provide lawful privileges to new immigrant such as salary tax free for 8 years, paid vacation (in other countries you need to negotiate this vacation), good health care system and others. By the way, you mentioned 5 years to get the Dutch passport but you do not know that there is a new law under discussion to make it 7 years.

From career report, I can see that RSM feeds the consulting fields such Bain and Deloitte and BCG. Your master will help you but I advise you to take further step and prepare early for case interview, if you have time. You can check the following in GMAT club:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/down-on-cons ... 43294.html

https://gmatclub.com/forum/rhyme-s-guid ... 63411.html

If you you still need any resource or ask any question, please PM directly. I can refer to my friends there and get back to you.


Good Luck
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