Russian applicants

Question

Hello! Me and my friend want to apply to US B-School. My TOEFL score is 90, GMAT 660 (Q51 (yeah!

), V28(:())). His results are very similar. On what BS in CA shall we look for? If I want to enter the Berkeley Haas, should I improve my GMAT? Where we will take an interview? If we want to study together, how can we increase our chances? Thank you for your answers!

P.S. Sorry for my english...

riverripper · Answer

I dont know a lot about schools requirements for the TOEFL, but some do have a minimum. Also a low verbal for internationals can cause problems, they want to ensure that you can communicate with you classmates.

Audio · Answer

I'm not an expert, but a 90 TOEFL seems to be on the low side, especially combined with a 28V. I know Harvard strongly discourages applicants with a TOEFL lower tan a certain level to apply. 

Plus your GMAT could go through the roof if you made some progress in English. You could easily get 700+ with a decent verbal. So I would recommend you to work on your English and ace the GMAT. My 2 eurocents...

kwam · Answer

I think that all UCs have the same TOEFL requirements, something around 68 (at Haas), but bear in mind that this is the rule for the university, and perhaps they use TOEFL as well to compare candidates. I think that they would also target the scores that other schools target which is around 100. Your score is good, but with a 10 points improvement you can virtually apply to all schools in the world. I see you have a very good quantitative score, why not study more for the TOEFL - as I think you will apply only next year, right? - and then with better english skills, retake the GMAT? I did that in my time and that worked! https://mba.haas.berkeley.edu/apply_01.html#TOEFL https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/x10127.xml

Markovich · Answer

And if I apply now and then retake the GMAT in the end of january, will they take my new results? Or, maybe, I can prove my ability to communicate on the interview? I haven't got a lot of speaking experience, but I'm going to visit US as a tourist at February or March, so I'll improve my vocabulary and speaking.
Toefl requirements spread from 80 (most common)..87 (Berkeley)..90 to 100 in Stanford.
And what about other questions?

kwam · Answer

If you aim Haas, then my answer is: please retake both. Because of its very small class Haas is the hardest elite school to get into, with stats of Ultra elite ones.

About sending later new scores, that's a very common question, see here for instance:
https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/t57681

Markovich · Answer

I want to begin to study in fall'08.. Is it possible?

I CAN improve my english.. It's not too hard for me, so, I think, I can score about 100-105 on TOEFL just at the end of January. And I can retake GMAT, for me quantative section was very easy. But won't it be too late?

kwam · Answer

https://mba.haas.berkeley.edu/fall2008.html

3rd deadline is Jan/31, so you need your scores before that, because ETS takes 2-3 weeks to send, I don't think you'll be abble to have your new TOEFL score. GMAT it's possible.

BUT, you still have all application essays and requirements, which are very time demanding.

Mar/12 is the 4th deadline, which I wouldn't recomend you, well only if you are sure you will get into. I don't know Haas policy with reapplicants, if they like or not, so check that out.

If I were you I'd apply next year with better conditions, and I'd apply to other schools. But hey, I'm just considering your scores, if you have a fantastic career path and very interesting community services, forget about everything I wrote

kwam · Answer

The problem here is that: you can show them your communication skills, only if they invite you for an interview...

Markovich · Answer

But I can send new scores after deadline, can't I? I want to write all essays and get recommendations in two weeks, so it's ok with them. For me it's MUCH better to apply in this year..

I think that my career path is fantastic enough.

nervousgmat · Answer

Markovich,

I am Russian but live in the U.S., so I believe I have some perspective on applying to b-schools in this country. Here is my profile:

https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/t56921

First thing I can recommend is not to rush with your applications. You stated that you wanted to submit your application in a two-week time-frame. That is extreme, especially given the time it takes for even a native speaker to write good quality essays. Based on what I saw from your posts, your grammar needs some polishing. I would recommend hiring a consultant to look at your essays and correct your grammar, which again will take some time. In addition, to show that you researched the school and know exactly why Haas is the best fit for you given your career goals, you need to do some research about the school, talk to alumni, etc. Again, you don't have time to do that to apply for Fall 2008.
Second, you have no guarantee that you will score higher on the GMAT or TOEFL the second time around. You are taking a huge gamble relying on higher scores AFTER submitting your applications. Third, why CA? Why Haas? Why Fall 2008? Have you researched b-schools in the U.S. at all? I don't mean to sound harsh but you sound like a person who decided to go to b-school yesterday, write essays today for a school that you only heard of because you want to go to "cool" California with your buddy and be accepted. That is just not going to happen.
I would contact helg and R.E.D. who are members of the GMATclub and who also happen to live in Russia. They will tell you just how hard it is to be accepted to top schools in the U.S. and how much time it really takes to finish one application.
I realize that my tone is almost accusatory but I mean well. I just want to shake you/pour cold water on you, so that you realize the lightness with which you are approaching the application process.
Feel free to PM me if you need some advice or have some questions, and I will be happy to help you.

Meanwhile, I have posted tips on how to improve verbal here:

https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/t50635

I hope you'll find them helpful in your quest to improve your verbal score.

walker · Answer

Thanks a lot for your post! 
I'm from Ukraine and also have the same verbal problem, mainly in SC and RC. Thanks again.

nervousgmat · Answer

I'm glad you found it helpful, walker!
Are you applying to b-schools for Fall 2008 intake?

bsd_lover · Answer

Great post nervous. Markovich, Unfortunately you have missed the bus this year my friend. If you want to maximize your chances my suggestion to you:
- Study for pure verbal for 2-3 months with your friend
- Really kick butt in GMAT (if you guys can get 51 again and get your verbals upto even 35 , you'll probably get 700+ in gmat)
- By then you can easily crack 100 in TOEFL as well. 

Apply to either a January start in 2009 - such as INSEAD, HEC or Columbia. Or apply for 2009 start, you'll have plenty of time for producing convincing essays and can target, well pretty much any school if you start on August 2009. 

I have spent months on essays and have been rejected twice in the process. Believe me its not fun. Also you should spread your bets, its not always that people end up in their first choice schools, so you should at least apply to 2-3.

Good luck.

Markovich · Answer

Thanks a lot for your posts!
I think that I have a chance to apply this year. And I shall use it. 
First, for me it's better to study not in Berkeley, but this year, then in Berkeley next year. Applying to Berkeley is a top-goal for me, but I'm ready to study at any other good school.
Second, I think I can improve my GMAT score just now, I'll take the test at the end of January. I am shure that I will score 51 (is it max?) quant, and I'll try to do my best in verbal, because now I know my problems in verbal section and I can solve them now. TOEFL is not a problem.
So, there is only one bottleneck - essays. But we will work on them, to make them the best essays B-schools ever read! )))

bsd_lover · Answer

I like your spirit and determination. Good luck.

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