Before John won the Lottery, he was a poor locksmith.

Question

Before John  won the Lottery, he was a poor locksmith .

a) won the lottery, he was a poor locksmith.
b) had won the lottery, he was a poor locksmith.
c) won the lottery, he had been a poor locksmith.
d) won the lottery, he were a poor locksmith.
e) wins the lottery, he was a poor locksmith.

There are two events which are being stated in the above sentence

1) John winning the lottery
2 John being a poor locksmith.

In the above sentence it clearly mentions that John was poor before winning the lottery. Hence use of simple past to denote that Jack was a poor locksmith appears to be correct to me. But the correct answer is C. Please let me know where I am going wrong.

arirux92 · Accepted Answer

I'm not sure about the OA :

Manhattan's rule on past perfect states :

1. Past Perfect is used to clarify or emphasize a sequence of past events. The earlier event should somehow have a bearing on the context of the later event.
2. The words "before" and "after" indicate the sequence of events clearly and emphatically enough to make the use of the Past Perfect unnecessary.

Apart from the above there are more other situations mentioned in MGMT guide in which use of past perfect is not required even when two actions have occurred in the past and one before the other.
1. If both the actions are performed by the same subject OR if the time sequence is already obvious then we do not require past perfect.
e.g. Antonio drove to the store and bought some icecream 
2. Main clauses linked by AND or BUT do not require the past perfect. The reason is that in such case we are not emphasizing the order or time sequence here.
e.g. Antonio drove to the store and Cristina bought some icecream

Using past perfect requires us to add extra words. So when unnecessary we don't use past perfect. Grammatically it is not incorrect, but GMAT also tests concision.

ravisinghal · Answer

Hi,

Past Pefect is used when there are two events in the past and the former event should use Past perfect and the latter event should be then a simple past tense.Thats the most commonly tested reasoning in GMAT.
Here in this case Former event was :- John being a poor locksmith ,that is why ..we should use past perfect 
 latter event :- John won the lottery.

Hope this explains !!

quantumliner · Answer

arirux92 , So are you saying that Option "a" is the correct answer in this case?

arirux92 · Answer

I believe so. But this is a very debatable topic and I doubt you will have to make this choice in the actual gmat where no other thing is different bw options.

Abhishek009 · Answer

Please find here what Mike has to say -

usage-of-pastperfect-212322.html#p1635028

From MGMAT

clarification-between-aristotle-prep-and-mgmat-sc-in-tense-126678.html#p1036036

From Veritas

clarification-between-aristotle-prep-and-mgmat-sc-in-tense-126678.html#p1036612

Hope this helps...

MODS please do the needful...

PS : More discussion on the topic needed , experts please guide..

aartiydv09 · Answer

As per my understanding, in sentences which have words such as "before" or "after" that clarify the sequencing of the events, the earlier event could take simple past or past perfect and the later event will take simple past.
Here I find both A and C as valid answers. Could you please help me understand if I am going wrong somewhere?

sayantanc2k · Answer

When the sequence is clear because of the use of "before", then past perfect should NOT be used. Thus, C is wrong. A is the only correct option here - changed OA.

margerysimkin · Answer

I also have been in this locksmith business from past three years. I also have seen many ups and down but never have thought to quit my job for even once.

GBSlocksmithBris · Answer

I had guessed either A, or B, to be correct. Does statement in any way suggest how John was a poor locksmith? Or is it taken for granted that the word "poor" in this text relates to his monetary status rather than his ability as a locksmith because of the mention of the lottery winnings? Also if you were trying to make a statement about his skill level as a locksmith as a pose to his wealth would you be inclined to mention so? Or would you use a different set of words altogether?

AbhISB2021 · Answer

Before John   won the lottery, he was a poor locksmith.
  
What is wrong in the above sentence?

As per Aristotle SC book the correct sentence is:
Before John won the lottery, he had been a poor locksmith.

But as per MGMAT,
"The words  "before"  and  "after"  indicate the sequence of events clearly and emphatically enough to make the use of the Past
Perfect  unnecessary ."

which one is correct? and if both are correct where I am going wrong?

AndrewN · Answer

Hello,  AbhISB2021 . You have to be careful about following absolute rules. In the sentence at hand, I lean more toward the MGMAT view, based on what I have observed in correct answers to official questions. This does not mean the Aristotle SC book is poor in quality, but you have to adapt your understanding of grammatical rules and semantics to the question at hand. Look for anything in any of the five answer choices that is least defensible, get rid of that answer choice, and then see how the others correct that issue. The deeper you delve into what  must  be correct, the more dirt you will kick up over nothing.

It is good that you are seeking advice. Best of luck with your studies.

- Andrew

fauji · Answer

Given sentence has time marker "Before" which makes the sequence of events clear. Hence Past perfect is not required.
Answer :  Option A.

Kinshook · Answer

Before John  won the Lottery, he was a poor locksmith .

a)  won  the lottery, he  was  a poor locksmith.
b)  had won  the lottery, he was a poor locksmith.
c) won the lottery, he  had been  a poor locksmith.
d) won the lottery, he  were  a poor locksmith.
e)  wins  the lottery, he was a poor locksmith.

A is more concise than C.

IMO A

ashu2503 · Answer

The answer given in Aristotle SC for this is (C). So is that wrong?

Posted from my mobile device

Before John won the Lottery, he was a poor locksmith.

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Before John won the Lottery, he was a poor locksmith.

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