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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of

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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Aug 2012, 14:51
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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .


(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2012, 21:17
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betterscore wrote:
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself


Since there is ongoing confusion regarding this question, let's discuss it.

Sviatovin is a text describing events in the life of Prince Sviatov. We don't know when the text was written. The events described in Sviatovin actually took place in 1165. Hence we can say that the text was written in or after 1165. No assumptions here. The text also has diagram which shows Prince Sviatov's father. His father died in 1167 so the argument is concluding that the text must have been written in or before 1167. What is the assumption? That had his father not been alive at the time the diagram was made, the diagram would not have shown him. That the diagram identifies the family composition as it was at the time the text was written and the diagram was drawn. This is what C says and hence is the answer.

E is certainly not an assumption. When you negate an assumption, the conclusion cannot hold. If we negate E, we get that Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father. This makes our conclusion even stronger (in fact, foolproof). If Sviatov's father wrote it, then Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2012, 02:16
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whenever the conclusion is referring to some statistic , data or diagram. We must understand that those figures have been assumed to be correct for author to make conclusion.

Hence C. :wink:
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Aug 2012, 21:22
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C is the best answer .The entire argument is based on the assumption that the details provided are true and that the father was living at the time and that diagram depicts correct information.When any of this is found not be true ,the argument falls apart .
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Aug 2012, 02:26
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(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts - Out of scope - Incorrect
(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible - Giving accurate report of Sviatov would not help predict when the text was written - Incorrect
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written - Sviatov's fater died in 1167 and composition of family if assumed true would help pin point the year when the text was written - Correct
(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years - Gives a vague idea - Incorrect
(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself - Gives a generalised theory about the author of the text. - Irrelevant - Incorrect
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Dec 2012, 03:46
(However events) in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living.

Can someone mark the subjects and verbs and tell me the meaning...seems really odd structure
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2012, 21:22
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sujit2k7 wrote:
(However events) in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living.

Can someone mark the subjects and verbs and tell me the meaning...seems really odd structure


The structure is similar to this:

In the event of a fire, the fire alarm, which is located in the main hall, will go off.
In the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text, his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living

Subject - the fire alarm/his father
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Sep 2013, 11:01
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
betterscore wrote:
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself


Since there is ongoing confusion regarding this question, let's discuss it.

Sviatovin is a text describing events in the life of Prince Sviatov. We don't know when the text was written. The events described in Sviatovin actually took place in 1165. Hence we can say that the text was written in or after 1165. No assumptions here. The text also has diagram which shows Prince Sviatov's father. His father died in 1167 so the argument is concluding that the text must have been written in or before 1167. What is the assumption? That had his father not been alive at the time the diagram was made, the diagram would not have shown him. That the diagram identifies the family composition as it was at the time the text was written and the diagram was drawn. This is what C says and hence is the answer.

E is certainly not an assumption. When you negate an assumption, the conclusion cannot hold. If we negate E, we get that Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father. This makes our conclusion even stronger (in fact, foolproof). If Sviatov's father wrote it, then Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.


Hi Karishma ,
Sorry for opening this thread and asking following silly questions .
I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B
I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly .
Thnx.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Nov 2014, 03:00
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
targetdec31 wrote:
Hi Karishma ,
Sorry for opening this thread and asking following silly questions .
I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B
I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly .
Thnx.



You don't need to take a call. Whatever the argument gives you has to be taken as true. The argument says "the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living."
So Sviatovin describes some events which occured in 1165. The picture that accompanies identifies his father as still living. So the picture must have been made prior to 1167 if the diagram accurately represents the family composition. Hence Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.


I got confused with the wording "accurately represents the family composition" and rejected C.
IMO, family composition is the members of the family, that means if the diagram says that Prince Sviatov's father had 3 brothers but actually there were 5!! In this condition the diagram is wrong i.e. is is not the accurate representation of the composition of the family. Need more clarification for the OA!!
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Nov 2014, 21:01
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scofield1521 wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
targetdec31 wrote:
Hi Karishma ,
Sorry for opening this thread and asking following silly questions .
I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B
I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly .
Thnx.



You don't need to take a call. Whatever the argument gives you has to be taken as true. The argument says "the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living."
So Sviatovin describes some events which occured in 1165. The picture that accompanies identifies his father as still living. So the picture must have been made prior to 1167 if the diagram accurately represents the family composition. Hence Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.


I got confused with the wording "accurately represents the family composition" and rejected C.
IMO, family composition is the members of the family, that means if the diagram says that Prince Sviatov's father had 3 brothers but actually there were 5!! In this condition the diagram is wrong i.e. is is not the accurate representation of the composition of the family. Need more clarification for the OA!!


In arriving at the conclusion (Sviatovin was written between 1165 and 1167), we have assumed that the picture is accurate. The picture shows his father alive so we say that his father must have been alive when Sviatovin was written. We have assumed that the picture was showing the truth. In case we are told that the picture is not accurate, then can we arrive at the conclusion that Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167. No. Then all we can say is that it was written after 1165 - but when exactly, we wouldn't know.
So we have assumed the accuracy of the picture - that the painter wouldn't have lied by painting the father alive even though he wasn't. It doesn't matter whether the painter included everyone because it is hard to say who is part of the family and who isn't - the exact composition of a family is very subjective - nuclear family or joint family or extended etc. Accurate depiction only means that whoever is shown alive at that time was actually alive.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Nov 2014, 22:47
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sidhu09 wrote:
(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts - Out of scope - Incorrect
(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible - Giving accurate report of Sviatov would not help predict when the text was written - Incorrect
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written - Sviatov's fater died in 1167 and composition of family if assumed true would help pin point the year when the text was written - Correct
(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years - Gives a vague idea - Incorrect
(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself - Gives a generalised theory about the author of the text. - Irrelevant - Incorrect




" Somehow i'm still thinking about the answer choice "B". If author is intended to provide a accurate report then conclusion holds OK. If we negate it, then it means that text as well as drawing is not accurate so can not conclude predict the time of text.

Pleas help!
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Nov 2014, 22:05
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sach24x7 wrote:
sidhu09 wrote:
(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts - Out of scope - Incorrect
(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible - Giving accurate report of Sviatov would not help predict when the text was written - Incorrect
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written - Sviatov's fater died in 1167 and composition of family if assumed true would help pin point the year when the text was written - Correct
(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years - Gives a vague idea - Incorrect
(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself - Gives a generalised theory about the author of the text. - Irrelevant - Incorrect




" Somehow i'm still thinking about the answer choice "B". If author is intended to provide a accurate report then conclusion holds OK. If we negate it, then it means that text as well as drawing is not accurate so can not conclude predict the time of text.

Pleas help!


The argument gives us clearly "the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165"

So the events that the text describes happened in 1165 so the text couldn't have been written before 1165. Whether the exploits described are perfectly accurate, doesn't matter. We know that the exploits described did take place and that they took place in 1165.
If the exploits described are not exact, still the picture could be accurate.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2015, 05:09
betterscore wrote:
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself


Quote:
Why is option A ruled out ? If life of Prince is the subject of other books then there is a very realistic possibility that the facts presented in the Sviatovin are just taken from the other books . Please explain.


An assumption is necessary for the conclusion. Is it necessary that there should be NO OTHER text on Price Sviatov? Even if there is, isn't it possible that Sviatovin was actually written between 1165and 1167? Even if the text plagiarised other texts, it could still have been written between 1165 and 1167, right? Then (A) cannot be the assumption. If we negate (A), the conclusion can still hold.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself

Others beside B and C, are vague or out of scope.

We're left with two choices- B and C.

In Critical reasoning, my main rule, one that I would live and die by, is to stick to the keywords in the stimulus. If anything appears within the answer choice that seems a bit farther from the keyword in the stimulus e.g. (for this question, keyword we're looking for is 'events' in the stimulus, but translated to 'exploits' in answer choice 'B'. That JUMP from 'event' to 'exploit' is too big to digest and should be a cause for concern straight away - unless there is NO BETTER choice at all - which I doubt would be the case. Live by this rule, and you'l start seeing patterns everywhere. 'keywords' is the key!!

All the best.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Apr 2017, 23:03
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betterscore wrote:
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself


OG2017, CR583, P522

Medieval Text
 
Step 1: Identify the Question

The fact that the question stem appears before the argument indicates broadly that this is a fill-in-the-blank argument. These arguments can fall into any of the regular categories of arguments. Examine the end of the argument to determine which type this one is.

The language assuming that at the end of the argument indicates that this is a Find the Assumption question.

Step 2: Deconstruct the Argument

S is an old text. Nobody knows who wrote it or exactly when it was written. It does describe events that occurred in 1165. It also describes the father as still alive, and this father died in 1167. Therefore, the author concludes, the text must have been written between these two dates, 1165 and 1167—assuming that what is true?

Step 3: Pause and State the Goal

On Assumption questions, the correct answer will contain information that the author must believe to be true in order to draw his or her conclusion. What must this author believe to be true in order to claim that the text was written between 1165 and 1167?

Step 4: Work from Wrong to Right

(A) Whether any other texts were written about Prince S does not impact when this particular text may have been written.
(B) The accuracy of the exploits in the text does not indicate when this text was written.
(C) CORRECT. The author does assume that the diagram indicating that the father was still alive is accurate. If this diagram was not accurate, then the father may have been dead, indicating that the text may have been written after 1167.
(D) Whether there are other texts that can be accurately dated does not indicate when this text may have been written.
(E) The author does not need to assume anything about who wrote the text in order to draw the given conclusion.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2017, 07:08
Please someone help me with this Question. I am stillnot convinced with C. According to me B is a better assumption. I did not get how is C the ans!...GMATPrepNow Brent please guide. GMATNinja
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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Please someone help me with this Question. I am stillnot convinced with C. According to me B is a better assumption. I did not get how is C the ans!...GMATPrepNow Brent please guide. GMATNinja


Hi startjumprun ,

Notice that the conclusion is saying the text was written between 1165 and 1167.

This is based on the premises that It depicts information about 1165 events and it shows that the father was alive at that time.

Now, the information it is showing may be incorrect, right? So, what I mean is let's say the person it is showing as a father is not actually his father. He could be someone else who dies many many years later and thus, it weakens the conclusion that this text was written between 1165 and 1167.

So, Assuming that it represents family structure accurately prevents our conclusion from getting broken down. This is what option C is doing.

Let me talk about option B. It is saying author provided accurate report about his exploits. Even if it is accurate. These exploits have no relation to when the book was written because the main reason we said it was before 1167 was that his father died that year. But exploits won't tell us when the father died. Hence, this option is 100% incorrect.

We need to find out something that proves the relation between the death of the father and the time when the text was written. That would be our assumption.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jul 2017, 10:00
C is the clear winner. if we assume this, then we get the conclusion right.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Oct 2017, 02:24
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
sujit2k7 wrote:
(However events) in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living.

Can someone mark the subjects and verbs and tell me the meaning...seems really odd structure


The structure is similar to this:

In the event of a fire, the fire alarm, which is located in the main hall, will go off.
In the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text, his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living

Subject - the fire alarm/his father


In the given question, there is no comma before 'his father'. Therefore, it is confusing.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2018, 08:06
sach24x7 wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
targetdec31 wrote:
Hi Karishma ,
Sorry for opening this thread and asking following silly questions .
I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B
I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly .
Thnx.



You don't need to take a call. Whatever the argument gives you has to be taken as true. The argument says "the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living."
So Sviatovin describes some events which occured in 1165. The picture that accompanies identifies his father as still living. So the picture must have been made prior to 1167 if the diagram accurately represents the family composition. Hence Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.


Hi Karishma,
[color=#0072bc]" Somehow i'm still thinking about the answer choice "B". If author is intended to provide a accurate report then conclusion holds OK. If we negate it, then it means that text as well as drawing is not accurate so can not conclude predict the time of text.

Pleas help![/color]


Yes, I too am still unable to eliminate option 'B'. It includes what option 'C' is stating. Hence I see it as more correct answer.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of &nbs [#permalink] 09 Aug 2018, 08:06

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