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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of

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AnthonyRitz
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   20 Sep 2022, 10:32
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jabhatta2 wrote:

If (B-variant) was given, then we cant say if the book was written AFTER 1165 specifically


At the very minimum, can't we say that the book wasn't written before 1165, since the book describes events that "occurred in 1165"? I mean, unless the author was psychic, or has specific foreknowledge, or wrote about events and then caused those events -- theoretically possible, but totally unfounded in the argument -- the description had to come after the events being described.
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avigutman
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   20 Sep 2022, 11:01
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Who is proscribing the year 1165?

Is the text itself proscribing that the events (described in the text) OCCURED in 1165
OR
Is the text just describing events. Then we historians LATER ON are MAPPING those events to the year 1165 ?

Who is doing this 'proscribing' of 1165 ?

Can we say or we can't say ?

I thought it was the LATTER (based on SC logic)

Yes, jabhatta2, it's the latter. But, as AnthonyRitz explained, it's irrelevant. I mean, how would you react if you found a text that appears to have been written in 1910, that describes in detail the events of World War II? The text itself doesn't say that these events took place in 1939-1945, but we all know that they did. Wouldn't you question how a 1910 text could possibly describe events that hadn't yet happened? Does it really matter whether the text itself mentions the years 1939-1945?

Take another look at the beginning of the argument:
Quote:
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165

What was your reaction, when you took a pause at that point? Did you not infer that the text must have been written no earlier than the year 1165? If not, that was your first mistake.
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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   21 Sep 2022, 05:53
Hi avigutman AnthonyRitz - thank you so much for your inputs.

What both of you said in the posts just above make sense. - the book was definitely written AFTER 1165 (that cannot be disputable) - I did not make that inference. I understand the logic for this now

The only thing questionable is : was the text written PRIOR to 1167

While we are only left with (c) so we have to pick (c) -- however, would you agree on these inputs on (C) ?

-- Traditionally most GMAT assumptions are necessary assumptions. (C) seems to go over-board

Here is why :

(C) is is suggesting two things

(i) mom / dad / brother / sisters /grandmom / grand-dad / grand-mom / great grand mom / great grand-father / children / wives / cousins = EVERYONE IS ALL listed accurately.
(ii) LIVING / Deceased STATUS of EACH ONE is listed accurately as well.

(C) is suggesting both the above bullet points.

However, I think only DAD and the living /deceased status of DAD specifically is necessary for this argument.

If mom / brother / sister /grandmom .... is listed incorrectly and THE LIVING STATUS of mom / brother / sister / grandmom is listed in-accurately as well --- it doesnt hurt the argument.

Thoughts ?
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avigutman
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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 21 Sep 2022, 10:57
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Would you agree on these inputs on (C) ?

-- Traditionally most GMAT assumptions are necessary assumptions. (C) seems to go over-board

If you conclude that the text was written no later than 1167, and your only evidence is a diagram, then, yeah, your argument requires that the diagram be accurate.
It's true that we only need one little part of the diagram to be accurate, jabhatta2, but the answer choices aren't granular enough so as to question the accuracy of each part of the diagram separately.
Negation test: if we find out that the diagram does NOT accurately represent the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written, then the entire logic behind the conclusion (that the text was written no later than 1167) crumbles.

Originally posted by avigutman on 21 Sep 2022, 09:33.
Last edited by avigutman on 21 Sep 2022, 10:57, edited 1 time in total.
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AnthonyRitz
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   21 Sep 2022, 09:59
jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi avigutman AnthonyRitz - thank you so much for your inputs.

What both of you said in the posts just above make sense. - the book was definitely written AFTER 1165 (that cannot be disputable) - I did not make that inference. I understand the logic for this now

The only thing questionable is : was the text written PRIOR to 1167

While we are only left with (c) so we have to pick (c) -- however, would you agree on these inputs on (C) ?

-- Traditionally most GMAT assumptions are necessary assumptions. (C) seems to go over-board

Here is why :

(C) is is suggesting two things

(i) mom / dad / brother / sisters /grandmom / grand-dad / grand-mom / great grand mom / great grand-father / children / wives / cousins = EVERYONE IS ALL listed accurately.
(ii) LIVING / Deceased STATUS of EACH ONE is listed accurately as well.

(C) is suggesting both the above bullet points.

However, I think only DAD and the living /deceased status of DAD specifically is necessary for this argument.

If mom / brother / sister /grandmom .... is listed incorrectly and THE LIVING STATUS of mom / brother / sister / grandmom is listed in-accurately as well --- it doesnt hurt the argument.

Thoughts ?


Yeah I'm not convinced that this is the typical necessary assumption question, but even if it was, imagine negating C:

Quote:
the diagram DOES NOT accurately represent[] the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written


Then I'd say the family tree showing the father alive gives no reason whatsoever to assume that Sviatov's father was actually alive when the book was written. And therefore the conclusion is, if not wrong, at least without any basis in the argument. I'd consider that a good enough basis to pick this answer.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   10 Oct 2022, 04:23
''in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living''

isn't this a premise and we are doubting the premise in C]?
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   10 Oct 2022, 07:27
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himanshu0123 wrote:
''in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living''

isn't this a premise and we are doubting the premise in C]?


Ah, no, actually, I don't question that at all.

It is undeniably true that "in the diagram... his father... is identified as living" (emphasis added). I don't question what the diagram shows. I question whether the diagram is accurate. These sorts of fine distinctions are the bread and butter of GMAT critical reasoning, so it's important to practice picking out the little wiggle words like "identified" that create such gaps!
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ArnauG
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink] New post   20 May 2023, 12:42
The argument in the passage relies on the assumption that:

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written.

The argument assumes that the diagram accompanying the text accurately reflects the family composition during the period when Sviatovin was written. If this assumption is false and the diagram is inaccurate or represents a different time period, then the conclusion drawn about the time of Sviatovin's composition would be invalid. Therefore, establishing the accuracy of the diagram is crucial for determining the timeframe of Sviatovin's writing based on the information provided.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of [#permalink]
20 May 2023, 12:42
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