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GMATNinja

To be honest, it's not worth memorizing this kind of nitpicky, idiomatic rule that is very unlikely to show up on your GMAT. Instead, it's better to think through the logic of the sentence, and eliminate the options that don't clearly express the author's intended meaning.

From a meaning-based perspective, "as opposed to" just works much better here. The author's intention is to provide a contrast concerning the city's commitment -- (D) clearly shows that the city is committed to the public realm and not to the private realm. (E), on the other hand, doesn't provide this clear contrast -- instead, it (ungrammatically) informs us that the public and private realms are opposites of one another, without connecting this statement back to the intended contrast.

Because (D) clearly expresses the author's intended meaning and (E) does not, (D) is the winner.

I hope that helps!

hi GMATNinja, and GMATRockstar
AndrewN,MartyTargetTestPrep,

I haven't yet gotten the meaning that the public and private realms are opposites of one another in E, for me, there is no meaning difference between structures representing a city’s commitment to a public realm, opposite of a private one and represented a city’s commitment to a public realm, as opposed to a private one,

furthermore,
(E) as much community centers as they were purely religious edifices,
I don't think "they" is ambiguous, because it is clear that "they" refers the cathedrals, instead of "community centers".

thanks in advance
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Fdambro294
My exact question.

I didn’t really see the pronoun ambiguity referred to in the official answer.


Whether it’s cathedrals or edifices or community centers, aren’t they essentially the same thing for purposes of this sentence?

A is as much B as it is C

If we use “it” to refer to A, does it matter if we refer to B or C or A?

Seems as if they are equivalent......


If any experts have any further thoughts on the pronoun ambiguity, I would love to hear them.

Hello Fdambro294,

I am not sure whether your doubt still persists. Here is my take on it anyway. :)

Frankly, I also do not really see any pronoun ambiguity in Choice A because the plural pronoun "they" can logically refer only to the plural noun "cathedrals" because the context of the sentence indicates the same. The sentence clearly says that cathedrals were both community centers and religious structures.

I would rather look for other errors to eliminate the incorrect answer choices.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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zoezhuyan

I haven't yet gotten the meaning that the public and private realms are opposites of one another in E, for me, there is no meaning difference between structures representing a city’s commitment to a public realm, opposite of a private one and represented a city’s commitment to a public realm, as opposed to a private one,

furthermore,
(E) as much community centers as they were purely religious edifices,
I don't think "they" is ambiguous, because it is clear that "they" refers the cathedrals, instead of "community centers".

thanks in advance

Hello zoezhuyan,

Allow me to help you with this one. :-)

The sentence intends to say that the structures represented a city's commitment to a public realm. The commitment was not to a private realm. This is the meaning conveyed by Choice D, and this meaning is logical as the sentence describes the nature of the commitment.

In Choice E, the phrase "opposite of a private realm" is describing "a public realm". The phrase "opposite..." is no more describing the nature of the commitment.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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GMATNinja, EMPOWERgmatVerbal

Dear experts,
Could you elaborate where I am wrong. When the modifier is not essential we can drop it. Consequently, appositive that provides additional information can be eliminated.

(D) as much community centers as purely religious edifices, structures that represented a city’s commitment to a public realm, as opposed to a private one

Does that locution make sense now?

Thanks beforehand.
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GMATNinja, EMPOWERgmatVerbal

Dear experts,
Could you elaborate where I am wrong. When the modifier is not essential we can drop it. Consequently, appositive that provides additional information can be eliminated.

(D) as much community centers as purely religious edifices, structures that represented a city’s commitment to a public realm, as opposed to a private one

Does that locution make sense now?

Thanks beforehand.

Thanks for your question BLTN!

Let's take a look at option D with the non-underlined parts added in:

The cathedrals of the Middle Ages were as much community centers as purely religious edifices, structures that represented a city’s commitment to a public realm, as opposed to a private one.

If we were to eliminate what you crossed out (the appositive/non-essential information), what we're left with should still make sense:

The cathedrals of the Middle Ages were as much community centers as purely religious edifices as opposed to a private one.

Hmm...this doesn't work, does it?

Why is that?

It's because the phrase "as opposed to a private one" is ANOTHER modifier. This time, it's modifying what comes right before it (public realm). This isn't a common sentence construction you'd run across, to be honest. However, it is a good example of how in rare circumstances, you can have a modifier that "modifies the modifier."

So - if we cut out BOTH modifiers, what we're left with SHOULD make sense:

The cathedrals of the Middle Ages were as much community centers as purely religious edifices.

That works!

You can also check out our explanation in page 2 of the comments to see how we tackled it. :)

As always, feel free to tag us at EMPOWERgmatVerbal if you have any other questions!
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GMATNinja egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal
The word "one" is never used as a pronoun, rather it is used to denote a single element from a group. Even Manhattan SC has dedicated one complete section on this rule, and the same rule has been followed on many official GMAT questions.
So how this rule has not been followed on this question?
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GMATNinja egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal
The word "one" is never used as a pronoun, rather it is used to denote a single element from a group. Even Manhattan SC has dedicated one complete section on this rule, and the same rule has been followed on many official GMAT questions.
So how this rule has not been followed on this question?
Hi BankerBro,

Are you sure they say that one cannot be used as a pronoun? Such usage is well established in English.
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GMATNinja egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal
The word "one" is never used as a pronoun, rather it is used to denote a single element from a group. Even Manhattan SC has dedicated one complete section on this rule, and the same rule has been followed on many official GMAT questions.
So how this rule has not been followed on this question?
I'll echo Ajitesh here. It's not hard to generate examples in which "one" functions as a pronoun.

For instance:

    "Relying on invented rules is likely to cause one to struggle on SC questions." :)

Here, "one" is referring to a theoretical person. That's fine.

Or:

    "Tim really wanted to purchase a Groovy Girl doll for his kids, but could not for the life of him figure out where to find one."

Now, "one" is referring to a "Groovy Girl doll." That's also okay.

So if you see "one" in an option, rather than asking whether the usage violates a "rule," just ask yourself if the construction is clear and logical. If it is, don't treat it as a concrete error. If the usage is confusing, but another answer choice that omits "one" is clearer, then it's reasonable to use this as a decision point. It's as simple as that.

I hope that helps!
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I have a query in option D & E.

How to understand the usage of ''structures'' followed by comma in the sentence. I know that VERB+ED, VERB+ING modifiers can modify the subject of the preceding clause. But how can ''structures'' refer back to cathedrals?

I thought it is a fragment or separate IC clause.

Please help resolve my query
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VIGHNESHKAMATH
I have a query in option D & E.

How to understand the usage of ''structures'' followed by comma in the sentence. I know that VERB+ED, VERB+ING modifiers can modify the subject of the preceding clause. But how can ''structures'' refer back to cathedrals?

I thought it is a fragment or separate IC clause.

Please help resolve my query
It's like this:

Tendulkar is a Marathi, a former Indian batsman who broke many records.

Note that "a former Indian batsman who broke many records" is not an Independent clause.

The structure is:

Phrase ("a former Indian batsman") + a Dependent clause ("who broke many records")

Such structures serve the function of Phrases, English grammar.

Also, you could as well consider that "a former Indian batsman" is modifying "a Marathi" (which also makes sense because "Tendulkar" is "a Marathi").
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VIGHNESHKAMATH
I have a query in option D & E.

How to understand the usage of ''structures'' followed by comma in the sentence. I know that VERB+ED, VERB+ING modifiers can modify the subject of the preceding clause. But how can ''structures'' refer back to cathedrals?

I thought it is a fragment or separate IC clause.

Please help resolve my query

Hello VIGHNESHKAMATH,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe we can help resolve your doubt.

Here, "structures that represented..." and "structures representing..." are dependent clauses that function as modifiers, so there is no sentence fragment or run-on sentence error.

In these cases, the dependent clause refers back to the subject of the independent clause it modifies.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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VIGHNESHKAMATH
I have a query in option D & E.

How to understand the usage of ''structures'' followed by comma in the sentence. I know that VERB+ED, VERB+ING modifiers can modify the subject of the preceding clause. But how can ''structures'' refer back to cathedrals?

I thought it is a fragment or separate IC clause.

Please help resolve my query
Looks like your question has been answered, but our post from earlier in the thread might also help.

Also, using a comma-separated noun phrase (i.e. "structures that...") to modify a noun before the comma is actually quite common on the GMAT. Here's one example that comes to mind.

I hope that helps a little!
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ExpertsGlobal5 AjiteshArun DmitryFarber

Can you further explain why there is no comparison ambiguity in choice D? After reading through the forum, I still can't understand why we can't interpret the sentence to mean "cathedrals were community centers as much as purely religious edifices (were community centers)".

Also, why is there no ambiguity to what the "structures that..." modifier is modifying? From what I've learned, Noun+Noun modifiers can modify basically anything in the preceding clause such as a noun, an action, or the entire clause. Therefore, why can't we interpret "structures that..." to modify "religious edifices" instead?
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ExpertsGlobal5 AjiteshArun DmitryFarber

Can you further explain why there is no comparison ambiguity in choice D? After reading through the forum, I still can't understand why we can't interpret the sentence to mean "cathedrals were community centers as much as purely religious edifices (were community centers)".

Also, why is there no ambiguity to what the "structures that..." modifier is modifying? From what I've learned, Noun+Noun modifiers can modify basically anything in the preceding clause such as a noun, an action, or the entire clause. Therefore, why can't we interpret "structures that..." to modify "religious edifices" instead?

Hello jlo1234,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe we can resolve your doubts.

Option D utilizes the idiomatic construction "as much A as B"; thus, since "community centers" is a noun phrase, "purely religious edifices" must be as well, meaning the phrase cannot mean "purely religious edifices (were)".

Further, here "structures that..." is a dependent clause that functions as a modifier; in these cases, the dependent clause refers back to the subject of the independent clause it modifies.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Can you further explain why there is no comparison ambiguity in choice D? After reading through the forum, I still can't understand why we can't interpret the sentence to mean "cathedrals were community centers as much as purely religious edifices (were community centers)".

Also, why is there no ambiguity to what the "structures that..." modifier is modifying? From what I've learned, Noun+Noun modifiers can modify basically anything in the preceding clause such as a noun, an action, or the entire clause. Therefore, why can't we interpret "structures that..." to modify "religious edifices" instead?
Hi jlo1234,

With as much... as, there is always scope for ambiguity, because as much as doesn't always coordinate clauses. This is easier to see if we take something other than a noun.

1. He spoke as much about politics as his friend. ← This is ambiguous, but it's reasonable to read this as "he spoke as much about politics as he spoke about his friend".

2. He spoke as much about politics as about his friend. ← Repeating the preposition removes the ambiguity.

3. He spoke as much about politics as his friend did. ← Adding a verb at the end removes the ambiguity.

Here are a couple of examples with only nouns/gerunds.

4. The introduction was as much a part of his speech as the conclusion. ← As you pointed out, something like this would technically be ambiguous, because the second half is supposed to be read as "as the conclusion was".

5. She is as much a friend to me as a mother. [link] ← Reading this as "She is as much a friend to me as a mother is a friend to me" leads to an unlikely meaning. This is supposed to be read as "she is my mother, but she is also my friend".

Although when we see only a noun at the end, the more common interpretation is 'not-clause', the broader point is that ambiguity isn't an absolute error, and we shouldn't treat it as one. Instead, we should look for other, better entry points before taking a call on the basis of ambiguity (or redundancy, or usage of the passive...). So what we need to check is whether the GMAT has given us a better option than the one we're about to mark, not whether that option is perfect. English, like other languages, certainly isn't. :)
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jlo1234
why we can't interpret the sentence to mean "cathedrals were community centers as much as purely religious edifices (were community centers)".

From my earlier post:

A comparison is ambiguous only if it allows for more than one LOGICAL interpretation
A PURELY religious edifice is -- because of the usage of purely -- a building with only ONE purpose: RELIGION.
A building with only ONE purpose cannot also have a SECOND purpose: to serve as a community center.
Thus, the red statement above is not a logical interpretation.
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GMATGuruNY

A comparison is ambiguous only if it allows for more than one LOGICAL interpretation
Hello GMATGuruNY Sir, if we look at this sentence:

Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any contemporary German dramatist.

This is a wrong sentence and the explanation provided is: A dramatist cannot be produced.

Since as per logical interpretation, a dramatist indeed cannot be produced (which is quite obvious), this should not have been provided as a reason to eliminate this answer choice.

Please help.
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