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goobersmooches
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 30 Mar 2010, 12:17
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Count me in on this thread.

760/3.3 ug gpa (top 2 US public)
5.5 years WE (strategy for global hotel company & marketing strategy agency)
27 M

Wharton - ding w/ interview
Booth - ding w/o interview

I've heard Wharton likes reapplicants and will be reapplying round 1 this year. I will also be applying to other schools TBD.

Going through the application process is a great learning experience - and somethnig all of us reapplicants have going for ourselves.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 30 Mar 2010, 13:51
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Thanks enny, maybe I'll see you at Darden if I decide to visit for my applications next year...

Riverripper, do you mean that applying at 30 is not a clear weekness? I really don't know how adcoms welcome reapplicants. shoud on change the stories in the essays or what?

My first step will be retaking the gmat. I need it to strenghten my app.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 30 Mar 2010, 14:03
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Riverripper, do you mean that applying at 30 is not a clear weekness?
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Clearly I'm not riverripper, but I would think that as long as you can make a good case for why you need an MBA at this point in your career, it doesn't really matter whether you're 25 or 30 or 35. There're schools that prefer younger candidates, like HBS and Stanford, but I would think that you would fine with other b-schools.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 Updated on: 30 Mar 2010, 14:59
Originally posted by 2012MBAmaybe on 30 Mar 2010, 14:45.
Last edited by shadow on 30 Mar 2010, 14:59, edited 1 time in total.
removed link to comply with GMATClub policy
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Hi Guys,

Some cause for hope...

760 GMAT, Engineer in Aerospace at a small no-name company, but I did spend 1 year in the UK and a couple months in China, both for work. 2.8 (yes terrible!) undergrad at a state school (2.8 at state school!).

Year1:
- I applied for class of 2010 at Chicago. Got interview, Dinged.
- At this point I had been volunteering with a local high school for about a year, but not heavily.
- After the ding, I took a class at a local community college to offset that poor undergrad GPA (4.0, top grade in class).

Year2:
- I applied early decision to Columbia, round1 to MIT, and round2 to NYU. Dinged at all, no interviews.
- After the dings, I stepped up my volunteer at the high school to lead the program.
- After the dings, I took 2 more classes at a local community college (4.0 in each, top grade in class in each).

Year3 (this year):
- Before applying I started helping a buddy with his startup. This was HUGE. We went from nothing to a small S-corp with patents pending, a couple hundred -grand of equipment, and big ideas. By December of 2009 we had sales and were operating at a slight profit. Again, talking about this in essays/interview I think was HUGE to separate me from other people.
- Continued leadership role volunteering with local high school.
- Accepted! to Kellogg's MMM program.
- Accepted! to Chicago Booth.
- Dinged at Stanford.
- Didn't even submit other apps after hearing from Kellogg and Chicago.

Year3 I also got an admissions consultant and the dude who helped me was great. I actually contacted him right after I got dings from Year2. He was the one who suggested to get involved in some sort of entrepreneurship to separate myself, and I think it was hugely helpful. I talked to him, he encourage entrepreneur, I did that for 6 months, then got back to him and we started writing essays.

So....if you're willing to work at it, I'm confident you'll make it eventually.

Haha, maybe I suck for taking so long to get in...who knows. 28 years old now.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 Updated on: 22 Oct 2016, 13:15
Originally posted by username123 on 31 Mar 2010, 16:38.
Last edited by username123 on 22 Oct 2016, 13:15, edited 1 time in total.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 31 Mar 2010, 17:03
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username123

would you mind sharing what admissions consultant you used and the cost?
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you'll need to send him/her a private message, i don't think we're allowed to "advertise" on this board
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 31 Mar 2010, 17:11
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2012dreams
username123

would you mind sharing what admissions consultant you used and the cost?
you'll need to send him/her a private message, i don't think we're allowed to "advertise" on this board
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the forum doesn't let recently registered members post links until they have sufficient posts, or have been a member for a sufficient amount of time. this is to prevent people from signing up for the forum with a new account, posting a BS shill testimonial, and then dropping a link for their test prep service / consultant / whatever. if you purposely try and circumvent the rule by putting in extra spaces in the link, then that link will be removed if it's in violation of the rules.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 08:34
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Hi Guyz..
Feeling like an outsiders surrounded by lots of intelligent people (U will figure out reason subsequently). It's sad that guyz with great GMAT scores are dinged.. Sad.!!
I am also dinged from two schools, waitlisted from the third one and waiting result from fourth school (but i am not optimistic for that..!!). The biggest flaw in my application is GMAT score, I scored only 600 (Q49, V 23) even my career goals were not very much clear.!!!!
Now, I have decided to reappear for GMAT and improved verbal section so that atleast i have chance to apply in Top B Schools. I don't want to go in Tier III schools hence won't apply in those.
Wish u guyz good luck for next admission year...!!!
Cheers & Ciao....
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 08:55
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Hopping on board with this thread too, dinged from UVA and UNC and waitlisted at Duke. I'm also a *younger* applicant, 24 and graduated '07 from undergrad.

I think my biggest weakness, aside from being at my current job for less than 6 months at the time I applied, has been my profession - consumer lending/sales. In my current field, a high school education is essentially enough for employment. However, I was in a management training program at my previous job (same industry), and have good opportunities and the company I'm with now for leadership.

With my GMAT and GPA just being average (710, 3.4), I either need something to help stand out from the crowd, or look at possibly 2nd tier schools.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 09:38
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luangm, wow man ur application is impressive
23 year old, and you hold cfa with all that experience, seriously how did u pull this off??? :good
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 12:53
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EC's and volunteer are great to have, but what I feel the big thing that business schools are looking for is this:

1. what are you going to do with an MBA?
2. why are you going to be successful with an MBA?

volunteering and EC's are fine, but i'd highly doubt they're (or the lack thereof) are the reason you didn't get in where you wanted. If you've got a good GMAT score and good grades and all that, I'm guessing you didn't show either a) what you want from an MBA, and/or b) why that school is the best fit for where you're at. I reapplied this year to Anderson and Marshall (dinged both '09) and got into both ('10) and I think a big part of my acceptance this year is due to having a very singular focus on what my end goal was. I wanted the adcom to know *exactly* what I want to do post-MBA, and I think that came across. I also worked my tail off (2 classes, better GMAT, promotion, etc) so that definitely helped.

For those who may not know yet what they want to do post-MBA, I'd suggest taking some time to figure that out before reapplying. But take heart, reapplying does work, and there's no harm in working another year! And always remember: you don't *need* an MBA to do anything :)
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 12:57
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Agreed. I had basically no EC's. This isn't undergrad. They won't hurt of course but unless you've built something from the ground up I don't think they garner a whole lot of attention. It's all about selling your story.

Posted from my mobile device
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 14:33
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Applied to 7 in the top 15 - not a single call for interview! The horror.

Stats: M/25/Indian-CS Engg/710/UG: 7.7/10 from top 10 Indian school, Masters - 3.7 Top 10 CS School in US
Work exp: 2 years High-tech R&D for an education company in the SF/Bay area

I did run my essays through more than 3 of my friends and some family - thought I had my goals clearly defined. Maybe I need to get professional help next :-??

Recommenders were quiet helpful too. I did get a slightly bad review in my first year, but came to a good review in the next, specifically asked them to highlight this - showing that this dude can turn things around quite well (was doing this a boo boo?)

Very good ECs from schools and even currently. Most leadership and managerial experiences come from this, none from work (its an independent tasks kind of workplace )

Thinking of changing job to a product manager kind of a role this year. Thought that the current workex gave me some differentiating weight, but clearly it did not. Also ready to do some certificates like CAPM, CABM or even CFA - but am interested in none of these fields in the long term. (entrepreneurship focused).

Any of these seem redundant? Any better suggestions?
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 15:13
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Applied to 7 in the top 15 - not a single call for interview! The horror.

Stats: M/25/Indian-CS Engg/710/UG: 7.7/10 from top 10 Indian school, Masters - 3.7 Top 10 CS School in US
Work exp: 2 years High-tech R&D for an education company in the SF/Bay area

I did run my essays through more than 3 of my friends and some family - thought I had my goals clearly defined. Maybe I need to get professional help next :-??

Recommenders were quiet helpful too. I did get a slightly bad review in my first year, but came to a good review in the next, specifically asked them to highlight this - showing that this dude can turn things around quite well (was doing this a boo boo?)

Very good ECs from schools and even currently. Most leadership and managerial experiences come from this, none from work (its an independent tasks kind of workplace )

Thinking of changing job to a product manager kind of a role this year. Thought that the current workex gave me some differentiating weight, but clearly it did not. Also ready to do some certificates like CAPM, CABM or even CFA - but am interested in none of these fields in the long term. (entrepreneurship focused).

Any of these seem redundant? Any better suggestions?
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I would really hate to say this, but I would also concider retaking the GMAT. For IME (Indian Male Engineer) a 710 would not stand out. Also 2 years is on the lower end for an engineer :D
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 15:32
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HBS2011
In a asimilar boat to you

28/M/ Nigerian. Working in a small IB in London. Numbers are decent 3.5 GPA ( BSc + MSc)/ 720/4 WE

Given what I do, it only really makes sense to apply to M7 schools - but results have been abysmal:

HBS - no love at all
Wharton - Decent Interview but nothing
Chicago - R1 - straight ding.
CBS - want me to do the january option


Funny thing is, in my wharton interview, interviewer alluded that I may be too good for bschool so i thought I had a good shot only to be disappointed. Columbia interview was similarly positive until result. am i doing something spectacularly wrong as i know people with my background but lesser stat get in?

what i think i did wrong
Maybe I need to apply to lower ranked schools?
Im looking to remain in finance ( was obvious in my essays) so maybe i need to change goals etc?
Did not visit schools
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From reading your post, I think one thing that might have affected you was your tone. While your stats and background are impressive, the fact is that many applicants at top 20 schools have impressive stats. In fact, as you must have observed, many extremely qualified applicants have been dinged across the board. I assure you that had you visited other schools and had one-on-one with students, you'd walk away feeling underqualified because the talent pool at top schools is intimidating. My suggestion to you is to exude "quiet confidence": work really hard on your essays, show your skills but bear in mind that the competition from very qualified folks is fierce. Make sure you visit school and learn as much as you can about the schools. Your essays needs to show fit, which varies by school.

Last point: we all agree that rankings matter, however, within a range, they are relative. Bear in mind that not all graduates of T5/T10/T15 programs are doing great post-MBA. Spread out your application "wings" and be ready to work really hard because at the end of the day, while the utility of your school brand cannot be underestimated and will open doors, your worth is what will take you far in our globalized inter-dependent market.

This was my first time applying so I spread out my applications to a number of BW top tier schools starting from # 1 (target, will-make-do-with, and safety schools). I got some admits, some dings and a waitlist. That way, I was able to choose what was best for me after considering the many variables involved that we all consider....

Good luck
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 21:44
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Hey guys, many helpful (although sometimes conflicting) comments so far. Thanks!

I'm trying to gather some suggestions on my "Goal" for next year.

This year I applied with my stories about Environmental Protection businesses in China (est. $1 Trillion by 2030) and an anticipated Director role (which is basically business development as I have a strong network there) to my consulting firm's Shanghai Office after graduation. My recommendation letters from my supervisors highlighted those points with strong supports. And I've conveyed most of my ideas through the essays and interviews.

Arguably my future role is more about Marketing / Business Development / General Management type.
But is this a partial reason why I got dinged after interview at the top Finance schools (Booth & Wharton)? That I didn't show why I need an MBA from a Top finance school to do a BD/GM job?
And maybe a WL from Kellogg JD/MBA is that I didn't show why I need the JD? Arguably JD is very useful for my lobbying role for environmental change in China, since more regulations, more businesses for my firm.
And of course with my firm's work, people in China can enjoy a better standard of living (Compared to current horrible environment in Beijing and Shanghai), which is important to me personally (as my entire family are living there).

I have always believed to tell your true stories and I have told the truth with supports from recommenders. But it seems it's pretty difficult to show "Fit" to these top tier schools with heavy focus on IB/PE/HF/VC and MC, especially when you are not in those fields in the first place.

So I'm really puzzled...Should I "lie" about why I need an MBA? I could certainly talk a lot about "I'd like to switch a career to Equity Research Associate in the Mining and Metals or Oil and Gas sectors, and a Wharton MBA will help me get the training and contacts I need to become a successful Analyst in the future etc.", but working 16 hr days is not really something to look forward to post MBA. I have many close friends (Econ UG classmates) who are in IBs and Sales and Trading, and all told me the horror-stories about the 72hr no-shut-eye experiences.

Keeping in mind that the salary is not the question here. A $100,000 pay (or 700,000 RMB) in China is equivalent to a $300,000 pay in Canada, and maybe a $500,000 in NYC due to the huge difference in Cost of Living.

So guys, Please help me here? :beat Am I just really not "fit" for the best schools? Which T20 school is more "fit" for my background and goal? Should I settle for Rotman this year? I've already go through an interview with their dean and is pretty much a "in". But Rotman doesn't carry any weight at all in China. T7/Yale/Duke/Princeton/UC Berkeley etc. does.

And should I "Lie" about my intentions just to get into Wharton/Booth? I LOVE Wharton Campus and its network opportunities, and for Booth...well...it is THE "Chicago School" after all...

Thanks!!!
elevinty
luangm, wow man ur application is impressive
23 year old, and you hold cfa with all that experience, seriously how did u pull this off??? :good
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No I dont have CFA charter. I dont have the four years of experience. only exams, which is the easy part. sry for the confusion. I dont think anyone under the age of 25 (aside from couple of geniuses who got PhDs at 18, but again, they dont need CFA) is capable of pulling CFA charter off, you need a UG degree, 4 yrs of WE in finance and pass all exams.
Did Lv 1 in Dec. 07 after grad, Lv2 in June 08, Lv3 in June 09.
Did SOA 1/P in March 09, SOA 2/FM in May 09, SOA 3/MFE in Nov. 09.
Worked since May 07, so three yrs WE. Did Masters full time while working in 08, Graduate 09.
Hours are horrible. Head to work at 7am, finish at 6pm, grab a hotdog on the way, go to class at 6:15pm, class ends at 9:15pm. (I picked mostly night classes). Go home, shower, crush, repeat for one year.
Do research, homework, group project work etc. on Sat. & Sun.
Literally NO time for ECs, which is prob. why I got dinged :(
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 21:53
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Also want to mention I'm visiting Kellogg next Monday and Tuesday to show my interest and hope to get off the WL...
Visited them in Feb. in a cold snowy weekend, so didn't put my name down at the admission office. Although I talked to quite a few students. Regret not visiting before R2 deadline. Big Horrible Mistake. :beat

Any Kellogg student around can gave me some advices in person? I'll buy you :beer: till you go under :twisted:
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 01 Apr 2010, 23:19
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If your posts are any indication, your biggest problem is career schizophrenia. You don't need to have finance as a goal to get into wharton/chicago/ or anywhere else...but you do have to have clearly defined goals, a logical progression, and a clear "story". You do engineering, but you are taking the CFA exams? but you might do marketing? or general management? ...It's just all over the board. Age is a factor, but it's a factor because with age comes clarity. If you don't end up going anywhere this year, I would spend the next several months laying down your track. How you got here, where you want to go, and how an MBA will help you get there. Don't even mention the CFA exams if you have no desire to do finance. They aren't going to give bonus points for passing difficult financial exams if they have no bearing on your career goals, no more so than if I got some kind of IT certification (i know nothing about IT).

It's not about lying, it's about showing schools that you are a marketable product. The MBA is a networking/refresher degree, not a career maker. You have to show them where they fit in, not make them think you are relying on their program to dictate your path.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 02 Apr 2010, 05:02
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merkin
If your posts are any indication, your biggest problem is career schizophrenia. You don't need to have finance as a goal to get into wharton/chicago/ or anywhere else...but you do have to have clearly defined goals, a logical progression, and a clear "story". You do engineering, but you are taking the CFA exams? but you might do marketing? or general management? ...It's just all over the board. Age is a factor, but it's a factor because with age comes clarity. If you don't end up going anywhere this year, I would spend the next several months laying down your track. How you got here, where you want to go, and how an MBA will help you get there. Don't even mention the CFA exams if you have no desire to do finance. They aren't going to give bonus points for passing difficult financial exams if they have no bearing on your career goals, no more so than if I got some kind of IT certification (i know nothing about IT).

It's not about lying, it's about showing schools that you are a marketable product. The MBA is a networking/refresher degree, not a career maker. You have to show them where they fit in, not make them think you are relying on their program to dictate your path.
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Getting higher up in an Engineering Consulting firm is no different from getting higher up in a bank.
All you do all day is just to find clients and write proposals / pitch books. (The marketing/BD part) You stop doing the grunting work since you can train younger guys to do it. (The GM part)
None of my firm's directors are doing an "Engineering" role anymore, but its the businesses that they bring in that keeps the firm very profitable. I'll be doing the same thing in China.

But I will consider just knock out anything to do with finance next year. Thanks for the suggestion.
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The "Going nowhere" Thread 2010 02 Apr 2010, 05:56
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luangm

No I dont have CFA charter. I dont have the four years of experience. only exams, which is the easy part. sry for the confusion. I dont think anyone under the age of 25 (aside from couple of geniuses who got PhDs at 18, but again, they dont need CFA) is capable of pulling CFA charter off, you need a UG degree, 4 yrs of WE in finance and pass all exams.
Did Lv 1 in Dec. 07 after grad, Lv2 in June 08, Lv3 in June 09.
Did SOA 1/P in March 09, SOA 2/FM in May 09, SOA 3/MFE in Nov. 09.
Worked since May 07, so three yrs WE. Did Masters full time while working in 08, Graduate 09.
Hours are horrible. Head to work at 7am, finish at 6pm, grab a hotdog on the way, go to class at 6:15pm, class ends at 9:15pm. (I picked mostly night classes). Go home, shower, crush, repeat for one year.
Do research, homework, group project work etc. on Sat. & Sun.
Literally NO time for ECs, which is prob. why I got dinged :(
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It's seems like you're really smart but you're just collecting accolades without purpose. Why even take the CFA if you have no interest in finance? Seriously. You probably shouldn't even mention it on your application, it might confuse the adcom. I think merkin is right. I think you might suffer from lack of career clarity. You DEFINITELY don't need to lie and tell Wharton/Booth that you want to get into finance to go there. You just need to think about what it is you want in your career and convince them that Wharton/Booth is a great place to make that happen. If you think these two schools are only about finance then you've got the wrong idea and I'm not sure why you're applying to them anyways.
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