The people who get into H/S/W

Question

There was a post written by Alex (MBA Apply) that I found interesting... what do the rest of you think?

https://mbaapply.blogspot.com/2007/07/wh ... o-hbs.html

Do you feel that if H/S/W was the best thing to happen to you, then you probably have very slim chances?

dabots · Answer

heres my problem with his assertion

for those blue chippers, if getting an mba isnt the greatest thing thats happened to them, then a previous achievement was

so for that previous achievements, would alex say the blue chippers had slim chances of accomplishing each of those achievements?

at some point you are going to have your greatest achievement, theres no reason it cant be getting into h/s/w

you have to start somewhere

ncp · Answer

I think the post is very hollow. Alex tells us that if you are not superman(I was going to say president, but with GW around, I cant use that anymore) by age 26 and dont come with a degree in princeton, you basically have no chance at H/S/W. Thats bullshit. To some extent I can understand how schools will look at these so called blue chips favourably, but it is ridiculous to pigeon hole people based on their under grad. 

Alex then downloads his verbal diarrhoea by asserting that a stint in the vietnamese or israeli army is not considered on par with that in the US army. Crap!

No wonder Ozmba is pissed! or was it some one else who was unhappy with alex's services.

kryzak · Answer

Wow... that was a depressing article. Pretty much shot me down since I'm 30 now and will be 31 when I matriculate. I hope he's wrong.

I think this author completely ignored/invalidated the engineering/sciences people. I mean, Stanford has up to 20% of their class from engineering/science background, so it's not like if you don't do consulting/IB/Big-4 (whatever they are), you have no chance. I think his point would make more sense if the article was ONLY for applicants who have the business background (probably 60% of the class profiles?) and want to get into H/S/W.

In the end, I really don't think any of us NEED the brand of H/S/W. We all should go for the school that will provide the best fit and education/networking. I want to go to Stanford because I like the curriculum, it's close to home, and it's strongly linked to the Silicon Valley tech companies, not because of the name. While the article is a bit one-dimensional and harsh, it does have some truth in the statement about "if getting into H/S/W is your greatest achievement, then your chances may be slim". :shock:

pelihu · Answer

I didn't read the article, but the logic is flawed. Certainly, there are superstars there are out there that don't need the HSW brand; but even if all of those superstars skip business school and conqueor the world on their own, there will still be people remaining who believe that business school can help them get ahead. So in essence, the no matter how many superstars there are out there, there will always be people who can benefit from the experience and name brand of a degree from HSW. And let's be serious, the benefits of such a degree are pretty substantial. The number of people out there that would not benefit from such a degree is miniscule.

adcxaway · Answer

Well, if you wanted to go into IB/MC/PE/etc .. it would so happen that H/S/W would offer the greatest networking opportunity for those industries, not to mention that the number of hires for those industries are higher than other schools. So, would that be saying that you're going there for the career opportunity or for the name?

kryzak · Answer

adc, what you say is true, sometimes the "brand" cannot be separated from the education and opportunity. The two seem to be linked and won't be separated any time soon. 

All I was saying is, probably too many people want to go to H/S/W just for the "name", not caring what they want to do with the business degree. I guess from reading other posts, the adcoms are very good at catching those "rubber stamp" type people nowadays, so hopefully people who actually show a "need" for the opportunity (not just the name, but all the other benefits that comes with it) can get in. 

Anyway, I'm a little ticked at the author for his very limited and shallow treatment (not to mention somewhat offensive) of this topic, but there are still some truths in what he says (not his main point, but other things he mentioned in tangent).

lepium · Answer

I could relate to what Alex wrote, but without actually considering myself a superstar (not even close). 

Before you bash me, let me explain why I relate: the most important thing that happened to me was working and living for 3 years away from home in a very different culture. It was a life changing experience in many ways, and I still consider it the most important thing that happened in my life so far, above getting into H (or K or Ross). 

At the same time, I'm sure that I'm not a superstar and I will need B-school to progress, and mostly, to get the guts to venture on my own sooner rather than later. 

The few other people which I have met who have got into H have had similar experiences, i.e., they would probably not consider getting into H the highlight of their lives so far (regardless of how happy we all are about the outcome of the application). 

So I agree with a part of Alex's post. I won't comment on the bluechip portion, as I'm closer to the other category. 

L.

riverripper · Answer

If I apply and get into any of the above school and thought it was the highlight of my life...well lets just say my wife would murder me. I think it would be an amazing accomplishment and a great opportunity but i still think it falls below a bunch of other things I have done in my life.

That is probably the truest statement in the article because if you have never accomplished anything you feel is significant then you will have little chance of getting in. Part of the application is talking about your accomplishments and making them at least seem impressive. It would be hard to convince someone that this is true if you don't believe it yourself.

kidderek · Answer

In my lifetime, I've met quite a few Harvard/UPenn/Stanford alum. They are some of the most arrogant and obnoxious people I've ever met. More so than not, and definitely more so than me (and I'm pretty cocky). 

Am I being scared of being rejected or preemptively being a sour grape? Maybe. But it doesn't change the fact that my encounters with these alums have been terrible. 

So what's my point? What's the big deal? So you get better connections at HSW, but at what sacrifice to your character?

To quote the great Derrick Coleman, "WHOOPDEE D4MN DOO!"

I can honestly say, I'd rather go to Anderson than Harvard. Am I crazy? (I mean no offense to those matriculating at HSW) I just think I'm getting older and I know what I want and what I don't want. And I'm realizing the hoopla over HSW is overrated.

seanpatin · Answer

One question I have is where he talks about how there are a significant number of "Average Joes" at these schools, but in proportion to other B-Schools, he says they have significantly less. I would like to see the statistics on this, just to compare what percentage of students at HSW come from public schools rather than Ivies or other elite schools. Does anyone know if they are available? I would ask an adcom at the schools, but it seems likely they would either refuse to make it available or that they don't keep track of it. Of course, we could just have someone scour the campuses and question people, although we would likely miss a few. But, I guess this whole situation somewhat intrigues me, although it causes me some worry too since I went to a good state school, but nothing exceptional.

ncp · Answer

I'll be interested to hear what those experiences are. Can you quote a few of them without mentioning actual names and places.

Hjort · Answer

As mentioned above, the author is correct about one thing- any of the top schools want you to bring more to the table than the fact that you were selected by the school. Alas, the same could be said for virtually any selective process- the most difficult to enter nightclub wants you to bring more to the club than the fact that the bouncer let you in the front door. The ultra prestige jobs wants you to have more to offer on your first day of work than telling eveyone else who works at the firm that you work there as well. 

While I know I harp on this concept, I see very little point in the narrow minded worship of Harvard, Stanford, and Penn/Wharton as a set of schools. If we look at the production of these three schools on a gross and per capita basis, HBS is far and away the leader. Stanford and Wharton are similar to one another on a gross basis and once we look at this on a per capita basis Wharton finds itself in a cluster of other schools including the "minipowerhouses" Dartmouth and UVA.

kryzak · Answer

Thank you Hjort for your words of wisdom. I came into the b-school app process not really caring *that* much about names, other than the whole Ultra-Elite and Elite clustering. But all these crazy articles and some forums out there have almost gotten me to believe that my life will be over if I don't get into H/S/W. I'm glad that your comment has brought me back into the sane world.

I must say, I'm one of the very few people who just won't apply to Harvard because I don't like the city, culture, or the curriculum. Part of me wants to apply to see if I can get in, but the other part just thinks it's a waste of time since I probably won't go there, unless I don't get into any other schools (I'm probably one of the very few people who would debate over choosing Harvard or UCLA, and would definitely choose Berkeley or Stanford in a heartbeat over Harvard, no offense to HBS people).

aceman626 · Answer

agree with most of your sentiments. HSW is great, the best schools out there, but seriously not much better than any other top school. The students there, while very smart, aren't smarter or better than other kids from other schools. I know this for a fact, I know so many HSW folks I can't even count. 

The HSW people, well they are just like you and me, maybe a little more prepared. For example, they're like "i might apply to bschool in 2 years, so let me join some organizations and get positions, etc" whereas most working people wouldn't bother with any outside of work activities. They're the ones when in college were like "well i wanna get into harvard in the future, so let me stay in and study my ass off for this final instead of going out with friends, so I can get a high GPA" while for most folks like me, I didn't even plan on going back to school so I was like fuk it, i'm gonna party and have fun. 

THAT'S ABOUT IT. REALLY. 

They do SEEM more successful/richer, since the HSW network and brand-name will carry them more. But they're really not any smarter or better, just slighly more prepared, and a lot more lucky. Seriously, a lot of it has to do with luck. It's a well known fact that 80% (or some such) of applicants to H/S actually qualify for the school, they just can't take everyone. They accept around 10%, but it could've easily been any of the other 70% depending on a number of insignicant things (such as diversity, etc) that have nothing to do with an applicant's quality. 

Another example. I know a lot of HSW kids who went to real **** undergrads (maybe minority compared to IVY undergrads, but still significant) that I wouldn't even name. IF they didn't go to grad school you wouldn't think they're smart at all. You might even think they're dumb cuz their undergrad school is so ****. But somehow they pulled off a great application (kudos to them) and get into HSW for bschool. Now all of a sudden they're geniuses? No way.

riverripper · Answer

People choose undergrads for a variety of reasons though. Personally I put less stock in the name of a school someone went to because I have met idiots from Princeton and geniuses didn’t even go to college. So the same probably holds true for grad schools. Someone may go to a weaker school because it’s a state school and they can afford it or they may go because of family concerns. I personally wouldn’t judge people by where they go or what they do. But I am sure that companies will and your future boss just may.

That said I went to a no name school since I wanted a very specific and small major and the program is generally regarded as the best in the country for that major. This time around when going for an MBA which tens of thousands of people get each year (not <300 like my UG) I realize that name means a lot more. I read about how grads from top schools now are getting 2 or 3 offers and that is impressive to the writer since at a lower school they usually get 1 or 2 for a top student. I had 9 offers by winter of senior year because there were so many jobs and so few people. It’s the nature of supply and demand...because there are tons of MBAs and a limited pool of top jobs you need that edge. So if you want to work at some highly regarded company then you need that name on your resume and it needs to be at a school they recruit from. The alumni network also is a very important piece of the puzzle. Chances of an executive at a fortune 500 company being from a top 10 school are a lot better than him having an MBA from the University of Phoenix online.

aceman626 · Answer

You are not getting what i'm trying to say. I'm sayin, a guy from lets say Chico State undergrad, you wouldn't think much of him. You wouldn't think he is so awesome, so much smarter than you, in a situation you can only dream of, has opportunities not open to anyone else. Fact is, that's a pretty bad school. Sure some people go there maybe becuase they are poor, or because it's close to home, etc. But those are the minority. Most people go there because they can't go anywhere else. Now, the same guy busts his ass and ends up at HBS, while commendable, that doesn't automatically increase his IQ by 50 points. He doesn't automatically become better than you. Now why would you all of a sudden think he's so awesome, way out of your league, , etc, ie how people generally perceive HSW grads? I'm just giving an example of how HSW grads can be regular folks like you an me.

lepium · Answer

Before starting I stress "the few" people I have met (about 4). 1) Co-pilot in a local WRC team for a couple of years. 2) Founded (together with some college buddies) a charity to help educate poor kids with outstanding success. 3) Huge accomplishments at work. 4) me. :lol:

MBAbot · Answer

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The people who get into H/S/W

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