Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the

Question

Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.

A) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,

B) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
 
C) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
 
D) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie and commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt it
 
E) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, which had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

Chets25 · Accepted Answer

C is the correct choice. Reason why B is not correct because the time line of events is clearly stated in the sentence and we need not use past perfect tense 'HAD', in fact using simple past will be more precise. Hope it helps. If it does, please give kudos

Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie,
commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,
was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.

First Clause : Production of the Ford Model T commenced in 1908
Second clause: was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.

We must have conjunction to join two clauses, and this is the main flaw of choice A: Choice C fixes this issue

A) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,

B) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

C) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

D) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie and commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt it

E) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, which had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

pulkitaggi · Answer

I have a doubt between option B and C. Because their is a reference of another verb ( "discontinued"), which happened after the commencement of production, and because commencing of production is a discrete time frame- we should use had commenced.

And that is why I preferred option B over C. But OA mentioned is C . Why?

And that is why I preferred option B over C. But OA mentioned is C . Why?

Scorpi0n · Answer

We should use parallel structures with "and".

As far as I know, past perfect is not used with "in + year". It is used in the simple past.

sobby · Answer

Hi  GMATNinja 
Need help in eliminating A .I thought "commenced" here is used as participle ..so marked A as answer ... if all fluffs are removed the sentence with option A will look like this

Production of the Ford Model T commenced in 1908 was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.

tanvi9 · Answer

unsure between b and c
although I haven't started with my sc prep yet...

broall · Answer

A) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,
 The sentence is like: Production of the Ford Model T ... commenced in 1908 ... was not discontinued until...
This structure is awkward 
 
B) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
 "had commenced" is incorrect since we dont't need past participate tense here. 
 
C) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
 CORRECT. "which" refers to "the Ford Model T". "commenced" is parallel to "was not".  
 
D) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie and commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt it
 This choice is wordy and awkward. "it" is ambiguous 
 
E) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, which had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
 This sentence is like: Production of the Ford Model T ... and was not discontinued until ...
This choice lacks main verb.

arvind910619 · Answer

Imo C
which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
we need and to make it a proper sentence other wise the phrase  was not discontinued until nearly two decades later,  modifies the presidency of
Theodore Roosevelt.
and connects two sentences together .

arvind910619 · Answer

Hi experts i have question regarding  B colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and 
I know had is wrong in B but what does colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie modifies is it production or Ford Model T.
Please explain .
Thanks in advance .

stoor0777 · Answer

Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.

A) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,
(connector error)

B) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
(modifier and past perfect tense errors)

C) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
(Correct)

D) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie and commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt it
(modifier error)

E) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, which had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and
(modifier and past perfect tense errors)

abhimahna · Answer

Hi sobby , A has double verb mistake for a single subject. It says Production of the Ford Model T commenced in 1908, was not discontinued until .... Whenever you join two verbs referring to a single subject you must use a conjunction(such as and. but, yet, etc. ) to connect them. But the same is not the case in the above sentence. Hence, A is out. Hi arvind910619 , Colloquially here is referring to the Ford Model A. There is no problem with this. The main problem is with the usage of 'had'. I hope that makes sense.

Leo8 · Answer

Production  of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie,
   commenced in 1908 , during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, 
   was not discontinued  until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.

First Clause :  Production of the Ford Model T commenced in 1908 
Second clause:  was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending.

We must have conjunction to join two clauses, and this is the main flaw of choice A: Choice C fixes this issue

A) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt,

B) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

C) which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

D) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie and commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt it

E) colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, which had commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, and

sevenplusplus · Answer

In my understanting, "had" + (past participle) is used to describe an event in the past which occurred "before" another event "in the same clause". Here there are two clauses connnected using "and".

sobby · Answer

hi  abhimahna

Thanks , I understand that point ...but my doubt is how to know whether "commenced" is verb or participle ..i marked A just because i thought it as participle...
i thought ..Production of the Ford Model "was commenced "....as production can't commence by itself...

Thanks in advance

pulkitaggi · Answer

Hi sobby , I also used have the same issue, while understanding whether the Verb ed is the Past tense verb or participle. Though I have figured out way to solve this, it may not be very full proof. But this method has now trained my ears in such a way that I am making much less mistake in these types of question. So what I do now is that whenever I see a Verb+ed word I first consider it a verb and try to see is this sentence making sense without the use of rest of the sentence, If yes then it should be a verb. Other wise its a modifier. Eg. In this question - Production of the Ford Model T , which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie, commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt. This sentence makes complete sense in itself. Secondly- The fluff " which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie " modifies ford model , so if "commenced" was a modifier it should modify ford model only - this does not make sense. ( A noun modifier separates from its noun, only when another vital modifier separates same noun. Otherwise, what we are doing is that the first modifier is modifying Model T, and second modifier is modifying production) In case we need to modify the Production, the sentence should have been- "Commenced in 1908, production of ford model T, which was colloquially known as the Tin Lizzie , was not discontinued ........" Some of the Question which helped me were- ( You can find these question on Gmatclub- try solving them- You will understand what I am trying to say, check these question out. ) - The increased popularity and availability of televisions has led to the decline of regional dialects, language variations which originate from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated by geographic isolation. - The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which was determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times. If you like this Post please give kudos!! :-D

pulkitaggi · Answer

Hi  abhimahna ,

Please let me know if I am wrong-

In my understanding-   Which  can also modify Production, as " of the ford model" is a prepositional phrase ( and a vital modifier) separating "which..." from its actual noun. But what I learned was that in cases like these instead blindly following the rule, understand the meaning.

- If the "WHICH...." does not make sense with the noun in "OF PHRASE..." but makes clear sense with the  noun before "of phrase" - Then the touch rules can be violated. And the sentence is grammatically correct.

- If the "WHICH...." makes sense with   both  the noun in "OF PHRASE..." and the noun before of phrase- Then the which phrase can modify any noun depending on the context of the rest of the sentence. ( But preference will be given to Noun before of phrase)

- If the " WHICH..." makes sense with  only  the noun in " of phrase..." and fails to make any sense with the noun before of phrase- T hen Touch rule is used. . And the third case is used in this case.

And for option B similar issue - Colloquially, can refer to  production  or  Model T . But it does not make any sense to modify production. Hence It clearly modify Model T. I believe the Option B is wrong because of the use HAD only. the AND separates two clauses completely and hence I cannot consider the verb in first phrase as pre-requite Verb for using Past perfect.

Lets discuss over this topic more- It will really help me. My paper is already scheduled. And in case you liked this post please give KUDOS.

pulkitaggi · Answer

Hi sevenplusplus , That was right ON target answer. It really makes sense. Thank you. Because I can write 2 sentences completely separately- - Production of the Ford Model T commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt. - Production of the Ford Model T was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge. The 2 verbs has no relation with each other. mikemcgarry Sir, Can you confirm this? I hope you see this post before 11th july :wink:

( I dont want top make mistake in my actual paper) :-D

abhimahna · Answer

Hi sobby , The double comma rule says when we remove the stuff between two commas, the sentence should make sense. Look at the sentence below: Production of the Ford Model T commenced in 1908, during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, was not discontinued until nearly two decades later, during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, who stimulated competition in the automobile industry by lowering corporate taxes and encouraging consumer spending. Now, what do you think? Is commenced still a verb-ed modifier? No, right? This is the main problem with option A. Key rule to remember is : Before coming to a conclusion whether the such words are verbs or modifiers, make sure you remove the unnecessary stuffs. Hi pulkitaggi , Whatever you said is 100% true. Since 'which' cannot refer to production here, it must refer to the noun of 'of phrase'. Same goes for coloquiclly. I have corrected my post above. It must refer to the ford model. There is an exception to the use of past perfect. Whenever the sequancing of two past events is clear, we should always avoid using past perfect form. In this sentence, we are clear that Production of the Ford Model T commenced in 1908 and it was not discontinued until nearly two decades later . Notice the underlined words. It is clear that discontinue is happening after the commencement. Hence, using past perfect in such cases is not preferable. Does that make sense? Feel free to ask 'n' number of questions.

pulkitaggi · Answer

Hi  abhimahna ,

Thanks for the prompt reply.
if the " it was not discontinued.... " phrase was not followed by that underline words, I should have used " Had commence..". ( Just clarifying)

And

Is generally wrong? even if we separate two clauses with AND we should take inconsideration the time frame?

abhimahna · Answer

Again, I would say no. discontinued tells that that something has already started. Obviously, we cannot discontinue anything unless we start it. Did you get what I am trying to convey? So, again the usage is properly telling us the sequencing. I think I have seen such question where we were separating two clauses using and but the sequencing was shown using past perfect. Dude, honestly speaking don't learn any such rules. It will harm you. You should always go for the meaning of the sentence and POE for such sentences. All the best.

Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the

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Production of the Ford Model T, which was colloquially known as the

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