NYU Stern (full scholarship) vs Ross (50% aid) vs Kellogg (no aid)

Question

Hi All,

I am an applicant from India and was fortunate enough to get 3 great decisions, however now am in a dilemma as to what to choose. I am a career switcher aspiring to get into management consulting post MBA. This preference is more a result of a lack of clarity w.r.t. my future plans rather than an extremely strong inclination for consulting. Hence while it is my first preference, I am not closed out to IB/ finance roles and business roles in tech firms.

Ross: 
+ I enjoyed interacting with their alums and current students as much as Kellogg's
+ Strong and consistent placements into consulting and tech
+ Good support system for candidates interested in consulting
+ Very strong community vibe (strongest by a decent margin among the schools I am considering)
+ Strong alumni base in India/ across the world (alums are extremely supportive and helpful as well I have heard)
+ Has been a school on the upswing for many years now, and it's showing in all rankings
- Not as selective as Stern or Kellogg (I could be wrong here - but going by acceptance rates and the relative caliber of people who seem to break into these schools)
- The Michigan brand is not as strong as NYU or Kellogg (outside the US)
   If Ross increases their aid basis the Stern offer, would it be worth considering? (I read somewhere that they have a policy wherein they do not change $$ decisions, but I am tempted to try)

Stern: 
+ Full ride hard to pass-up, NYC location
+ Since I am not 100% certain on post MBA plans, NYC might offer more options to explore (too much exploring can be counterproductive though)
+ Is generally placed in the tier above Ross when it comes to selectivity and perception (the Tuck/ Yale tier)
+ Strong brand, slightly more recognizable than Michigan
+ As a dean's scholar, might have en edge with companies visiting the campus
+ This might be a function of me not having researched Kellogg/ Ross professors well, but Stern has a some very well known names: Sundararajan, Dolly Chugh, and legends like Galloway and Damodaran
- My interactions with the Stern community (which is strong in its own right) have been the least appealing among the 3 schools
- Historically a weak school when it comes to consulting placements, although things seem to be changing (latest placement report mentions ~30 MBB placements, not far behind Ross as %age of total batch size). Counter-intuitive thought, but with lesser number of people gunning for consulting, it might be a level playing field vis-a-vis Ross
- Alumni network not as strong as Ross/ Kellogg's in India, but in Europe/ SEA - probably matches or betters Ross' - especially in finance and tech jobs
- Probably not a valid concern, but in rankings etc, their performance seems to be consistent/ going slightly down

Kellogg: 
+ Don't need to list the positives perhaps
- No money. Don't think the increment in brand is worth $150K or $70K (comparing with Stern and Ross aid)

Thoughts?

BeePen · Answer

What gmat you have ?

ks2305 · Answer

760

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Nikhil · Answer

Tagging a few for their inputs

bb 
 billionaire 
 jessepinkman 
 FuturePM91 
 souvik101990

bschooled7 · Answer

Hey there! First of all, congratulations on the offers. A full-ride to NYU Stern is no mean feat, you should be proud!

If I were you, I'd lean towards Stern. A full-ride is an opportunity for you to set aside worries about being in debt and focus on exploring career paths for the next two years. This holds true even considering the high cost of living in NYC. Although, from what I hear, MBB positions are tougher to come by at Stern as compared to Kellogg. I was seriously considering Stern until a few conversations with current students/ alumni. While every person I spoke with knew OF someone who'd been hired by McKinsey, Bain etc., either as a full-time employee or summer intern, most people interested in Consulting seemed to have ended up with a Tier 2/ 3 (/4?) firm. For what its worth, I also spoke to some international students who knew of other non-US citizens who'd received MBB offers. But on the whole, plum/ elite gigs seemed few and far between. The people I spoke to seemed to stress the culture and fit more than anything else during our conversations. To me, personally, that's always a bad sign. It usually indicates that career outcomes aren't up to par. But hey, at least everyone's "nice"!

Kellogg is an amazing school. The career office is widely known to be one of the best in the business. But I know of a few international students in my circle who ended up not being able to get an offer to work in the US and subsequently ended up in **** gigs in other parts of the worlds. That would be my biggest risk if I were to consider picking Kellogg. It has very little brand value outside the US and maybe certain parts of Asia. Should you have to return to India for some reason because of visa issues, you'd basically be competing with grads from Tier 2 (think anything outside HSW, IIM-A/-B and quite possibly even LBS and Insead) business schools for Consulting and Investment Banking jobs. The situation is even worse if you want to transition from Banking to PE eventually. Bottom line being this: Kellogg is a fantastic school. M7, great career office, culture etc. But given visa issues, the downside risk for an international student with a full-ride to Stern as an option is definitely not worth it.

Ross, on the other hand, is an option you should consider carefully. It places really well in tech, which means its a lot easier for an international student looking for an employer who'll sponsor their H-1b. The culture is also very unique. I also recall being told that some larger American corporations, especially the old guard of corporate midwest, recruit exclusively at Ross. Yes, you'd be paying 50% of the total tuition out of pocket, but lower cost of living could offset much of that.

There's no right or wrong answer when it comes to picking schools in the same, or even adjacent, tiers. All factors considered, including the potential risk of not being able to work in the States post-MBA, its up to you to decide where you'd be happiest spending the next two years. I spent a lot of time thinking about what alumni community I was most interested in being part of for the next 4-5 decades when it came to picking a school. Perhaps its something you'd want to spend time thinking about as well. Wish you best!

ks2305 · Answer

Thank you! Great insights and my own research tallies in with what you have mentioned about Kellogg and Stern. One question though: what about Ross vs Stern for MBB placements? Factoring in for the cost of living, I'll be shelling out $50-55k more at Ross as compared to Stern, but are their consulting placements good enough to justify that additional cost and have a slightly inferior brand on the CV (as compared to Stern back here in India and EU/ Asia).

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bschooled7 · Answer

ks2305  I am not sure, tbh. But for what its worth, people I know who went to Ross ended up at companies like Ford (their leadership dev program), Walmart, Intel and Google. I don't know of anyone who's done MBB coming out of there. It makes me think MBB recruitment at Stern is better?

NTSpike · Answer

If Ross doesn't offer more money I would choose Stern. As an International I would worry most about minimizing my downside should work visa plans not pan out. Ross and Stern will be very comparable, especially considering you have a full tuition scholarship and are a Dean scholar at Stern. That being said, Ross was previous #1 choice. I loved Ross. Reach out to consulting students at each school and ask if they can get the consulting clubs placement data.

Also, while Stern may look worse on paper for consulting placements, I've heard time and time again that MBB chances at all T15 target schools are practically the same as it's all up to you and your case/interviewing skills after you secure the first round interview. With a full tuition scholarship and a 760 GMAT, you have as good of a chance as anyone to get that first round interview at Stern.

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ks2305 · Answer

Thanks for the advice! Makes sense.

billionaire · Answer

Hello ks2305 Yes you were fortunate enough to get 3 offers from 3 great schools, congrats on that

Yes Damodaran is at Stern, I would certainly take his class

Yes Stern is very strong in Finance, I would agree with all pros you mention and disagree with your notion of importance of your perceived interaction with Stern community. I am sure you will find there life long friends if you decide to attend. For me Stern is clear win here and would take their offer without a doubt. Stern and NY gives you much more opportunities and possible routes/specializations and Stern is also much more stronger and better known brand in Asia/Europe which seems to be very important to you. You can try to leverage your position with Ross, however I personally would not choose Ross over Stern even with equal scholarship, but that's just me

Kellogg and Ross does not worth $150K/70k when you have full ride with Stern, in my book. I would definitively put that dean's scholar accolade on my CV if I were you

Good Luck with final decision

ks2305 · Answer

billionaire  thank you so much for a decisive response. Leaning heavily towards Stern and this does solidify that decision!

JohnJohnJ · Answer

Look at the employment reports. Now Kellogg is traditionally very good at Consulting, Stern at finance and they’re all racing to get superiority at tech. Look at median salaries, offered/accepted %, and industry wise distribution. 
You need to go to a school which has strengths in all areas, consulting, finance, tech,... because when I was went to get an MBA, I wanted to major in Finance but mid way I fell in love with marketing, so I was lucky to be in a school which had solid marketing employment. So make sure you’re at a school which is superior in all areas and you get the best exposure and find a job in the line of business you like.

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bb · Answer

If you are international, I would strongly consider Stern's offer with full scholarship. That covers the worst-case scenario of not getting an H1B lottery (it is a lottery that does not care which school you attended). I think Ross is a great school but not $70K better than Stern and I don't know that Kellogg would be $150K better than Stern. You really have to have good reasons to turn down that much aid, esp if you are going to be borrowing most of it.

P.S. My vote went to Stern but it is not my life either. When I was going to Bschool, i bought the most expensive Laptop - i spent more than I ever have since then - over $2,500. I see all the other students making the same decision wanting a great machine, great phone, and great school. I am not regretting that $2,500 laptop but I did not really need it, and I could have gotten away with a $1,500 one, easily, but could not know that back then, esp not without buying that expensive laptop. Same is here - you don't know what you are really getting until you experience it.

JohnJohnJ · Answer

I'll give you some numbers from their employment reports

Kellogg has the second highest number of CEOs among Fortune 500 companies. However, trailing numbers aren’t a good indicator of a future state. Kellogg has a 3-month employment offer is 95%, look at the % of the graduating class going to consulting, tech and finance median salaries NYU has a 3-month employment offer is 95.4%. In addition to the full-time program - Stern also has a tech MBA, so you should consider that in your calculation. Remember, year-end salaries are higher in finance and tech compared to consulting because consulting has a smaller year-end bonus. Now, I’m not an expert at this-but employment reports should be your golden source of data. I feel employment reports are the best indicator of a schools ability to create value. Rankings (US News, FT, Bloomberg... use some weird surveys and untraceable data collected), M7 and Ivy are a scam, only employment reports make sense. (Be careful of some schools scamming by showing lower % of offers accepted to drive up the median salary)

ks2305 · Answer

Thank you everyone for your insights. Really appreciate the response on this post. Heading to Stern (which was my inclination to begin with, and got solidified after speaking to a number of alums/ current students and reading the feedback here). I would also admit, that my thoughts on the Stern community not being strong were probably misplaced, as I spoke to ~7-8 people from Stern in the last few weeks, and some of them could not stop talking about the community and life in NYC.

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