Bear with me on this long post. I’ve come a long way in the past nine months. When I applied to seven schools last year for the Class of 2010, I was accepted at USC and waitlisted at Columbia, NYU, and UCLA. The waitlist thing didn’t work out and I decided that USC wasn’t for me. I was strongly encouraged to reapply by the adcom at CBS (and did so), only to be denied before I submitted a single Round 1 application. Holy $%^!! I thought I was in trouble. Fortunately, I was able to keep focused on my apps and was extremely fortunate to be accepted at 3 of the 4 schools that I applied to in Round 1. That leaves me with the difficult decision that I am faced with today. Where to go to school… But first, a brief professional background and bit on my post-mba goals to provide some color. I have five and a half years of experience working in the financial services industry. Most of that time has been spent at a F500 company (somewhere around 110-130, before we were acquired in 2008). My background is in financial analysis and credit risk management. I spent the first couple of years of my career working in a financial planning role/budgeting/forecasting role as my company implemented very large scale (and expensive!) capital projects and initiatives. I also put together feasibility studies that focused on NPV for these projects and initiatives . Later on, I built proprietary credit risk models and played key roles in launching several successful new business lines. Due to the economic and financial challenges that my company faced, I’ve bounced around to a number of different roles since mid-2007, working across a number of business lines as well as with regulators to ensure our stabilization and liquidity position. My company was acquired last year and I have since been working with the acquirer’s transition teams to integrate the businesses and strategies across the two companies. Oh yeah, I won’t miss an opportunity to mention that I’m a CFA Charterholder. I’m interested in going into the investment management industry (in a research role). I’m mostly drawn to equities, so I can see myself working anywhere from a large mutual fund (think Fidelity, T. Rowe, Putnam) to a small to midsize investment advisory firm. I’d prefer to come back to the west coast (ideally SoCal) after graduation, but am certainly open to being in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. for 2-3 years post grad. Anyway, enough about me, and on with the show. Johnson Strengths Cayuga Fund - $14 million long/short hedge fund run entirely by students. This will undoubtedly be a big boost to my chance of success landing a job in the industry, particularly if I can land a spot on the fund in my first year. I’ll get a lot of practice doing stock pitches, as well as have the prestige of being on the fund (assuming I get selected). Job Placement – Cornell "on paper" puts the most students in investment management positions (~20 students/yr). They only have 2 firms that come on campus, but the students make regular treks to NYC and Boston. Students still land jobs at Fidelity, Wellington, T Rowe, and American Century, year after year (in addition to other sell-side and smaller buy-side shops). Immersion Program – in the second half of the first year you take a number of treks to Wall Street, get valuation workshops from industry experts, have guest speakers coming to classes to talk about the asset management industry and capital markets, and spend a lot of time networking with industry pros. Johnson Weaknesses Fit - I wasn’t blown away by my trip to Ithaca. The class I sat in sucked. It was a core strategy course and it was downright bad. I sat in a core strategy class at CBS and Duke, and Cornell’s wasn’t even close. Boring as heck, professor was not very engaging. Also, the students didn’t seem as outgoing, friendly, and social. I know my experience is limited in terms of time and interaction, but as I’ll discuss below, I was blown away with how cool/friendly/outgoing the Ross kids were (as well as the kids at Duke and Darden). I plan to go the admitted students’ weekend to see if this was a fluke, as it could’ve been. This is perhaps the biggest reason as to why I’m not convinced about going to the school, even through from a job perspective (as mentioned above), this school makes the most sense. Also, location wise, Ithaca is the smallest of the three college towns and will probably be the biggest shell shock moving from Los Angeles. Tiny west coast network - small class size coupled with few kids going to the west coast (where I ultimately want to end up, either after graduation or 2-3 years out. On campus recruiting – Only two investment management firms are coming on campus. Students still land jobs, but I know from others that success rate is about 10000% greater (I believe pelihu said that) for on-campus recruiting as opposed to self-directed recruiting. Rankings - Historically, the lowest ranked program among my three choices. I’m not a rankings whore…but I can’t avoid this as it does permeate my thoughts Ross Strengths Fit – seriously, I believe this school is undoubtedly the best “fit” from a social standpoint. I’ve become enamored with Ann Arbor. The ability to become connected to Michigan football, basketball, and hockey is unbelievable. I’m a huge sports fan. Furthermore, the students are just so damn cool. Everyone I talked to on my visit was really cool. Ironically, most people were talking about other things besides school, such as what volunteer event that they were helping to organize or where they were going for drinks on Thursday, etc. Sure I’m there for the education (and I’m not saying Ross kids aren’t), but I’m really drawn to the social environment and feel like I’m one of them, as opposed to a visitor. MAP – Multidisciplinary Action Program. I’ll be spending the last quarter of my first year doing a consulting project (no classes). About half of these are international based projects. The work ranges from strategy development, new product launches, etc. at blue chips such as Microsoft and Dow Jones to start-ups and new ventures. Great experience from a professional and personal standpoint. Responsive alumni network – I’ve reached out to probably 5-6 alums already and all of them have gotten back to me (and I’ve even prefaced my emails saying that I was accepted at other schools!). Also the largest MBA, BBA, and university-wide alumni network of the three schools. Strongest west coast presence - Ross places about 80 kids on the left coast each year vs. about 20-25 from Cornell + Darden) Rankings – historically the highest ranked school. Again, I’m not a rankings whore, but tough to avoid the topic. Ross Weaknesses Minimal placement in asset management – historically place about 3% of the students in asset management roles (about 10-12 students). They have alums at many of the places that I am interested in working at (TRowe, Fidelity, Wellington, American Century), but not droves of them. Typically it seems like there are maybe 1-3 alums at the firms that I am interested in (I know this because they give admits access to the admitted students). The minimal placement, in my mind, is the biggest reason that I am struggling with going to Michigan. If their placement and alumni presence were on par with Cornell, my decision would be a no brainer. On campus recruiting – Similar to Johnson, Ross only has 2 companies on campus (American Century and Deutsche Bank Asset Management). I’d be happy at either of those two firms (and from talking to a 1Y student, both of those companies took 1Y students for internships), again, the number is a little problematic, though. Maize and Blue Fund – the fund is pretty rinky dink. It’s around $100,000, although I don’t know the details of how the fund runs. Students are looking to build this out and get more funding, although this has been in the works since 2005. Darden Strengths General Management - Perhaps the strongest general management program (can’t even test out of any classes!). I’ve been focusing on finance since undergrad and am looking to broaden my skill set. Students - based on my experience, not quite as cool as the Michigan kids, but pretty darn close. I can definitely see myself fitting in well here. The social interaction among first years, both academically and socially is pretty close to perfect. Also given the interaction that the case method requires in class and outside of class, you REALLY get to know your classmates. First Coffee also helps build a strong, collaborative environment. Alumni network – second highest giving rate next to Tuck, I believe. Darden alums are generally known to be super friendly and supportive of current mba students Weather – I’m from Southern California, meaning Charlottesville will provide for the easiest transition from what I’m used to (70-degree LA winters ) Case Study? – I’m not necessarily for or against this. I know it’s a lot of work and that I’ll end up being better prepared to communicate effectively and work well in teams with people with different backgrounds/personalities. For that, I’ll place this in the positive bin. Moderate placement in investment management – Darden places more students than Ross does, but less than Cornell does. However, a few more firms are on campus (maybe 4-5). I know that they have alums at T Rowe and Fidelity among others (as well as some bigwigs at Capital Group and TCW, the two largest shops in LA). Darden Capital Management – very similar to Johnson’s Cayuga Fund. Broken down into four funds with different styles. The students have virtually full discretion. Somewhere around $4-$5 million in assets under management. You get course credit in the second year if selected to participate, although you still can go to meetings and make pitches as a first year student. Darden Weaknesses Rigor of first two quarters - Although all top maybe programs are tough for the first few months, Darden is amongst the most rigorous (albeit things are better than they were in the ‘90’s). This may potentially make things a bit more difficult in terms of recruiting (which for me will be mostly self-directed, not on-campus), putting together my stock pitches, etc. Rankings? - Somewhat teetering on the outskirts of the Top 15 in businessweek and US News rankings… Friends, I seek your opinions. Also, if you think that I am leaving off any major advantages or disadvantages, I welcome your comments. Many thanks for everything that g-club has done to contribute to my success. -ryguy

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Battle Royale – Johnson vs. Ross vs. Darden

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Where should ryguy go to school?

Cornell (Johnson)

Michigan (Ross)

Virginia (Darden)

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GoBruin

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04 Mar 2009, 15:42

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Praetorian

GoBruins

isa

My one cent

are you that cheap?

are you this stupid?

Sorry Praet, it's an on going joke I have with Isa, i.e. girl who managed to only spend 5 bucks on her tour of wharton including airfare, cab fare, and lunch.

Did not mean it to get out of proportion.

isa

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04 Mar 2009, 16:05

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GoBruins

No worries all! Let's get back to helping ryguy pick a school.

dghazer

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04 Mar 2009, 16:37

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I voted for Michigan so you can help me with my finance homework.

dharmabum

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04 Mar 2009, 16:56

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Go Blue!

nomsg7111

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04 Mar 2009, 20:06

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If you plan on coming back to the west coast, I vote either Cornell or Michigan. Being a California native I grew up hearing about Cornell (probably more a result of its "ivy league" status). I've never heard about Virginia until much later (first looking at the top public school rankings in us news); I feel Virginia is more of an east coast biased school, similar to USC in so cal. A very good school, but it seems like it'd be better to attend if you know you want to stay on the east coast.

I'll probably be attending Michigan next year, and I am 100% sure I will be coming back to the west coast. So heres crossing fingers they place well out here

Toubab

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04 Mar 2009, 21:13

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Go to UVA. Let's face it - all those "brand names" are substantially equal. But...

Have you ever been to Ithaca, for god's sake? I'd rather spend two years in New Haven than that place. And that's saying something.

Michigan is nicer, but it's still a little like living above the Arctic Circle for nine months out of the year.

Charlottesville rules. You'll love it. WAHOO WA!

nink

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04 Mar 2009, 23:03

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You already seem to know each school inside out, whether it's Ross, Darden or Cornell.

It's a good idea to ask the others for opinions and any other information that you haven't considered yet. However, you must realize that the final decision lies with you.

Regardless of what we say and what we want you to do, this is your life we are talking about. You must make a decision for yourself, unbiased from our opinions.

After all, this is a huge investment in terms of money, time and effort. You get to go to business school only once.

If driving a Hyundai makes you happy because you will be worry-free from high insurance premiums and etc, then ignore the Ferraris and drive the Hyundai. If you think Ferrari is a once in a life time opportunity kind of vehicle, then forget everything else and go for the Ferrari.

Regardless of where you choose to go, our role is to come here and congratulate you. (and support you all the way) In the end, go with your gut feeling and decide for yourself and ONLY yourself.

billyjeans

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04 Mar 2009, 23:54

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so..nink,
what if hyundai give u $60k cash back...what do you do?

maverick2011

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05 Mar 2009, 07:17

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Personally, I'm with bostonsparky on the fit thing; that is, I think I could adjust to any of the top schools' cultures/locations and have a blast. If you really feel uncomfortable at one school, then definitely rule it out. I think Cornell’s admit weekend will clear that up for you though. For me, the decision is mostly about career opportunities.

A quick example that seems relevant to your situation: I tentatively plan to target IB. Kellogg and Booth are at the top of my list (behind HBS and Wharton). Just looking at those two programs, there are two schools of thought with respect to IB recruiting:

1) Chicago is a core finance school, so you will have more opportunities to break into IB there, especially during down economic times.
2) Kellogg is not a core finance school; but since it is still a top program, banks will not drop it from their recruiting list. They will probably take less people compared to the core school, but there will be less people going for those spots.

Cornell is the Chicago in my example. Darden and Ross are the Kellogg in my example. Since I haven’t made the choice yet (mostly because I haven’t been admitted to Chicago yet), it’s hard for me to say what I’d do in your situation. I think I would probably choose Cornell unless you hate it during the admit weekend though. It seems to have the best name in the IM industry. It also seems to have the best curriculum and programs (Cayuga fund, Immersion, etc) for your interests. I wouldn’t worry too much about the lack of west coast presence right now. I think you should focus on the short term goal when picking a school.

All that being said, I’ll tell you what people keep telling me: “you can’t make a wrong decision, so just go where you would have the most fun.”

solaris1

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05 Mar 2009, 08:18

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How can you agree with bostonsparky, discount "fit," and yet still believe in just going to the place where you would have the most fun? Inherent contradiction there, no?

"Fit" is, after all, all about comfort and consequently also (subjective) happiness.

maverick2011

All that being said, I’ll tell you what people keep telling me: “you can’t make a wrong decision, so just go where you would have the most fun.”

maverick2011

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05 Mar 2009, 08:47

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solaris1

How can you agree with bostonsparky, discount "fit," and yet still believe in just going to the place where you would have the most fun? Inherent contradiction there, no?

"Fit" is, after all, all about comfort and consequently also (subjective) happiness.

maverick2011

All that being said, I’ll tell you what people keep telling me: “you can’t make a wrong decision, so just go where you would have the most fun.”

I said that's "what people keep telling me," not that I will make my decision that way.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting fit. In fact, I also said "If you really feel uncomfortable at one school, then definitely rule it out." Everybody is going to have a different opinion on "fit." I'm pretty adaptable to different environments, so it is less important to me than it is to some other people. So to answer your question, I don't believe I was being contradictory.

bostonsparky

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05 Mar 2009, 10:24

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maverick2011

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting fit. In fact, I also said "If you really feel uncomfortable at one school, then definitely rule it out." Everybody is going to have a different opinion on "fit." I'm pretty adaptable to different environments, so it is less important to me than it is to some other people. So to answer your question, I don't believe I was being contradictory.

Yeah I think it's a case where most of the top-15 schools are very flexible in terms of what you want to get out of them. The student bodies are so diverse and options so abundant that you are really going to struggle to try to find something that's not available. Perhaps if you've lived your whole life in cities and hate cold weather, maybe Tuck's not a good idea, but I am starting to roll my eyes when I see people say stuff like 'well I talked to this one person from NYU, and he/she seemed really weird, but I talked to someone from Columbia, and he/she was so cool! I fit so much better there!'

wonderhaven

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05 Mar 2009, 15:09

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Congrats ryguy - excellent results - and a nice choice to have to make!

When it comes to rankings, I think these schools are about as equal as it gets - generally top 15, sometimes top 10.

I voted Cornell! The reason being Cornell's national and international brand recognition which may not be something you are concerned about now. However, we are probably going to change careers/ job functions several times over the next 30 years of our working lives - maybe for you - from working for a mutual fund to starting your own business to .. whatever. In my opinion Cornell has the strongest brand which makes a difference 10 years later(however this need not be of concern to you if you attended a "brand" undergrad).

Under Cornell "weakness" what struct me most was your dislike of the class you attended - there are good and bad Profs at every school - the class I attended at Cornell was really interesting - really depends on the Prof., so don't base your decision on this.

You know the schools well and it's good you're attending DJ. While at DJ try staying a day longer to speak to Profs / attend a few classes that are in your field of interest. Just might change your mind about the school particularly "fit". I'd attend all the admit weekends if possible before deciding.

Good luck!! You can't go wrong with any of these great schools.

wonderhaven

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05 Mar 2009, 15:21

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also, are you sure you would enjoy Darden's reliance on the case method considering you are going into finance?

glettian

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05 Mar 2009, 15:39

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I was actually really impressed by the Strategy professor whose class I sat in on. She was very engaging, humorous, asked questions that made students think, very good-natured. The class itself had a lot of laughter, discussion, many people engaged/asking questions...it was a positive experience I felt.

refurb

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05 Mar 2009, 16:22

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bostonsparky

I am starting to roll my eyes when I see people say stuff like 'well I talked to this one person from NYU, and he/she seemed really weird, but I talked to someone from Columbia, and he/she was so cool! I fit so much better there!'

My thoughts exactly! Sure you want to see if you fit, but how much can you really know before you attend?

After talking to 4 or so alumni from both Duke and Tuck (and plenty of current students) I've gotten a lot of different opinions on each school's culture. There has been some overlap between answers, but my sample size is obviously very limited.

RF

ryguy904

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Schools:CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden

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05 Mar 2009, 16:24

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wonderhaven

also, are you sure you would enjoy Darden's reliance on the case method considering you are going into finance?

wonderhaven- I appreciated your comments in the previous post. +1

As far as the case method goes, I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it (in fact I said this in my interview). I may love it, I may hate it. At the end of the day, what I do know though is that I will be better prepared to express my opinions in a clear and concise manner in front of highly educated people, many of whom will have their own differing and conflicting opinions. Furthermore, my background is in finance and I have the CFA charter, so I don't think I'm personally going to learn much groundbreaking new finance material in an of these MBA programs. Sure I want to take some cool finance electives, but what I am looking to do is stretch myself in areas outside of my comfort zone (e.g., strategy, marketing).

In regards to finance specific courses/cases, they are pretty comprehensive. For instance, in valuations courses, the cases walk through financial statements and have students try to decipher company value based on an actual case (for instance amazon or apple). They walk through the same LBO models that the banks use for M&A and IPO deals (e.g., VISA IPO, or Time Warner AOL merger). So it's not as if Darden students are at a huge disadvantage (in fact I'm sure Darden students say that they have an advantage as compared to other non-cased based schools) for finance courses.

Tarmac

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05 Mar 2009, 18:05

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Is the Cornell brand really better than Michigan, especially with anyone who even knows a spit about business schools? Maybe in a pub (even that is debatable), but not in a job search.

I voted Michigan.

I could not survive 2 years in Ithaca. No way...

glettian

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05 Mar 2009, 18:32

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Cornell is an Ivy League school and will always have the best "brand name", IMO....

And no, I am not torqued from the BW forums :lol:

oziozzie

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06 Mar 2009, 00:17

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Just my 2 cents..

I'm an international and noone has ever heard about u of michigan in my country, whereas cornell is highly regarded due to its ivy league position.