Bear with me on this long post. I’ve come a long way in the past nine months. When I applied to seven schools last year for the Class of 2010, I was accepted at USC and waitlisted at Columbia, NYU, and UCLA. The waitlist thing didn’t work out and I decided that USC wasn’t for me. I was strongly encouraged to reapply by the adcom at CBS (and did so), only to be denied before I submitted a single Round 1 application. Holy $%^!! I thought I was in trouble. Fortunately, I was able to keep focused on my apps and was extremely fortunate to be accepted at 3 of the 4 schools that I applied to in Round 1. That leaves me with the difficult decision that I am faced with today. Where to go to school… But first, a brief professional background and bit on my post-mba goals to provide some color. I have five and a half years of experience working in the financial services industry. Most of that time has been spent at a F500 company (somewhere around 110-130, before we were acquired in 2008). My background is in financial analysis and credit risk management. I spent the first couple of years of my career working in a financial planning role/budgeting/forecasting role as my company implemented very large scale (and expensive!) capital projects and initiatives. I also put together feasibility studies that focused on NPV for these projects and initiatives . Later on, I built proprietary credit risk models and played key roles in launching several successful new business lines. Due to the economic and financial challenges that my company faced, I’ve bounced around to a number of different roles since mid-2007, working across a number of business lines as well as with regulators to ensure our stabilization and liquidity position. My company was acquired last year and I have since been working with the acquirer’s transition teams to integrate the businesses and strategies across the two companies. Oh yeah, I won’t miss an opportunity to mention that I’m a CFA Charterholder. I’m interested in going into the investment management industry (in a research role). I’m mostly drawn to equities, so I can see myself working anywhere from a large mutual fund (think Fidelity, T. Rowe, Putnam) to a small to midsize investment advisory firm. I’d prefer to come back to the west coast (ideally SoCal) after graduation, but am certainly open to being in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. for 2-3 years post grad. Anyway, enough about me, and on with the show. Johnson Strengths Cayuga Fund - $14 million long/short hedge fund run entirely by students. This will undoubtedly be a big boost to my chance of success landing a job in the industry, particularly if I can land a spot on the fund in my first year. I’ll get a lot of practice doing stock pitches, as well as have the prestige of being on the fund (assuming I get selected). Job Placement – Cornell "on paper" puts the most students in investment management positions (~20 students/yr). They only have 2 firms that come on campus, but the students make regular treks to NYC and Boston. Students still land jobs at Fidelity, Wellington, T Rowe, and American Century, year after year (in addition to other sell-side and smaller buy-side shops). Immersion Program – in the second half of the first year you take a number of treks to Wall Street, get valuation workshops from industry experts, have guest speakers coming to classes to talk about the asset management industry and capital markets, and spend a lot of time networking with industry pros. Johnson Weaknesses Fit - I wasn’t blown away by my trip to Ithaca. The class I sat in sucked. It was a core strategy course and it was downright bad. I sat in a core strategy class at CBS and Duke, and Cornell’s wasn’t even close. Boring as heck, professor was not very engaging. Also, the students didn’t seem as outgoing, friendly, and social. I know my experience is limited in terms of time and interaction, but as I’ll discuss below, I was blown away with how cool/friendly/outgoing the Ross kids were (as well as the kids at Duke and Darden). I plan to go the admitted students’ weekend to see if this was a fluke, as it could’ve been. This is perhaps the biggest reason as to why I’m not convinced about going to the school, even through from a job perspective (as mentioned above), this school makes the most sense. Also, location wise, Ithaca is the smallest of the three college towns and will probably be the biggest shell shock moving from Los Angeles. Tiny west coast network - small class size coupled with few kids going to the west coast (where I ultimately want to end up, either after graduation or 2-3 years out. On campus recruiting – Only two investment management firms are coming on campus. Students still land jobs, but I know from others that success rate is about 10000% greater (I believe pelihu said that) for on-campus recruiting as opposed to self-directed recruiting. Rankings - Historically, the lowest ranked program among my three choices. I’m not a rankings whore…but I can’t avoid this as it does permeate my thoughts Ross Strengths Fit – seriously, I believe this school is undoubtedly the best “fit” from a social standpoint. I’ve become enamored with Ann Arbor. The ability to become connected to Michigan football, basketball, and hockey is unbelievable. I’m a huge sports fan. Furthermore, the students are just so damn cool. Everyone I talked to on my visit was really cool. Ironically, most people were talking about other things besides school, such as what volunteer event that they were helping to organize or where they were going for drinks on Thursday, etc. Sure I’m there for the education (and I’m not saying Ross kids aren’t), but I’m really drawn to the social environment and feel like I’m one of them, as opposed to a visitor. MAP – Multidisciplinary Action Program. I’ll be spending the last quarter of my first year doing a consulting project (no classes). About half of these are international based projects. The work ranges from strategy development, new product launches, etc. at blue chips such as Microsoft and Dow Jones to start-ups and new ventures. Great experience from a professional and personal standpoint. Responsive alumni network – I’ve reached out to probably 5-6 alums already and all of them have gotten back to me (and I’ve even prefaced my emails saying that I was accepted at other schools!). Also the largest MBA, BBA, and university-wide alumni network of the three schools. Strongest west coast presence - Ross places about 80 kids on the left coast each year vs. about 20-25 from Cornell + Darden) Rankings – historically the highest ranked school. Again, I’m not a rankings whore, but tough to avoid the topic. Ross Weaknesses Minimal placement in asset management – historically place about 3% of the students in asset management roles (about 10-12 students). They have alums at many of the places that I am interested in working at (TRowe, Fidelity, Wellington, American Century), but not droves of them. Typically it seems like there are maybe 1-3 alums at the firms that I am interested in (I know this because they give admits access to the admitted students). The minimal placement, in my mind, is the biggest reason that I am struggling with going to Michigan. If their placement and alumni presence were on par with Cornell, my decision would be a no brainer. On campus recruiting – Similar to Johnson, Ross only has 2 companies on campus (American Century and Deutsche Bank Asset Management). I’d be happy at either of those two firms (and from talking to a 1Y student, both of those companies took 1Y students for internships), again, the number is a little problematic, though. Maize and Blue Fund – the fund is pretty rinky dink. It’s around $100,000, although I don’t know the details of how the fund runs. Students are looking to build this out and get more funding, although this has been in the works since 2005. Darden Strengths General Management - Perhaps the strongest general management program (can’t even test out of any classes!). I’ve been focusing on finance since undergrad and am looking to broaden my skill set. Students - based on my experience, not quite as cool as the Michigan kids, but pretty darn close. I can definitely see myself fitting in well here. The social interaction among first years, both academically and socially is pretty close to perfect. Also given the interaction that the case method requires in class and outside of class, you REALLY get to know your classmates. First Coffee also helps build a strong, collaborative environment. Alumni network – second highest giving rate next to Tuck, I believe. Darden alums are generally known to be super friendly and supportive of current mba students Weather – I’m from Southern California, meaning Charlottesville will provide for the easiest transition from what I’m used to (70-degree LA winters ) Case Study? – I’m not necessarily for or against this. I know it’s a lot of work and that I’ll end up being better prepared to communicate effectively and work well in teams with people with different backgrounds/personalities. For that, I’ll place this in the positive bin. Moderate placement in investment management – Darden places more students than Ross does, but less than Cornell does. However, a few more firms are on campus (maybe 4-5). I know that they have alums at T Rowe and Fidelity among others (as well as some bigwigs at Capital Group and TCW, the two largest shops in LA). Darden Capital Management – very similar to Johnson’s Cayuga Fund. Broken down into four funds with different styles. The students have virtually full discretion. Somewhere around $4-$5 million in assets under management. You get course credit in the second year if selected to participate, although you still can go to meetings and make pitches as a first year student. Darden Weaknesses Rigor of first two quarters - Although all top maybe programs are tough for the first few months, Darden is amongst the most rigorous (albeit things are better than they were in the ‘90’s). This may potentially make things a bit more difficult in terms of recruiting (which for me will be mostly self-directed, not on-campus), putting together my stock pitches, etc. Rankings? - Somewhat teetering on the outskirts of the Top 15 in businessweek and US News rankings… Friends, I seek your opinions. Also, if you think that I am leaving off any major advantages or disadvantages, I welcome your comments. Many thanks for everything that g-club has done to contribute to my success. -ryguy

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Battle Royale – Johnson vs. Ross vs. Darden

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Where should ryguy go to school?

Cornell (Johnson)

Michigan (Ross)

Virginia (Darden)

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RahlowJenkins

Current Student

Joined: 15 Dec 2008

Last visit: 10 May 2010

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Schools:HBS(08) - Ding. HBS, Stanford, Kellogg, Tuck, Stern, all dings. Yale - Withdrew App. Emory Executive -- Accepted, Matriculated, Withdrewed (yes, I spelled it wrong on purpose). ROSS -- GO BLUE 2011.

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Kudos: 182

09 Mar 2009, 11:22

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Go to Darden. I hear it has the hardest first year. It'll give you practice making decisions on your own. (Said with tongue firmly in cheek and in the best spirit of teamwork and forum ettiquette) (and yes, I spelled that wrong on purpose)

ryguy904

Current Student

Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Last visit: 10 Sep 2013

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Location: Sunny So Cal

Concentration: Investment Management

Schools:CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden

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Kudos: 216

09 Mar 2009, 11:32

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YihWei

Plus we may make our first Big Tournament since 1998 (stop laughing), so March might actually be exciting around campus, haha. Go Blue!

I think you mean the NCAA tournament (aka The Big Dance). :-D

ryguy904

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Location: Sunny So Cal

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Schools:CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden

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09 Mar 2009, 11:45

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pguard

The closer march madness gets...the more I favor Ross. Michigan is an unreal sports environment and I think it could add a lot to your bschool experience. If it remains a very close call professionally/educationally, Ross gets my vote.

I TOTALLY hear what you are saying. As a sports buff, I'm definitely drawn to Michigan's historic sports program. My undergrad university has made the NCAA tourney once in its history (and it happened to be when I was attending). I painted my face several times during the home games that year. Our football team also got cut in my junior year...

And for what it's worth, Cornell did make the tourney already...

Did you see this?? Who'd have guessed the Cornell kids were such fanatics.

https://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3960269

IHateTheGMAT

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09 Mar 2009, 12:46

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I vote for Michigan and I don't feel like going through the hassle of explaining why.

Yahsek

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Location: Ann Arbor, MI

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09 Mar 2009, 12:49

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ryguy904

YihWei

Plus we may make our first Big Tournament since 1998 (stop laughing), so March might actually be exciting around campus, haha. Go Blue!

I think you mean the NCAA tournament (aka The Big Dance). :-D

It's been so long since we've made it that I forgot the real name. I do, however, know the NIT, haha.

:cry:

pguard

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09 Mar 2009, 13:02

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While the big dance is relevant right now, Michigan makes its mark between September and January. I'm talking about tailgates starting at 2:00am the morning of an 11:30 kickoff when its freezing outside.

Although, there was the fab five...

glettian

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13 Mar 2009, 14:10

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Ryguy does the update to your avatar mean you've narrowed it to Cornell and Ross?

ryguy904

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Location: Sunny So Cal

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Schools:CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden

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13 Mar 2009, 14:18

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glettian

Ryguy does the update to your avatar mean you've narrowed it to Cornell and Ross?

Yes it does.

Darden is a great school and I really have enjoyed my interaction on-grounds, with students, alum, and faculty. However, at the end of the day, I believe I'm going to fully commit to one thing or the other: best social environment/fit or best job prospects (and I haven't decided that yet). For me, Ross is #1 in fit and Cornell is #1 for investment management job placement. Darden comes in #2 in both of those categories and I feel as if I'd be settling on both accounts. That said, I still have a lot of love for Darden.

FormerArmyDude

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Updated on: 25 Oct 2023, 17:08

Originally posted by FormerArmyDude on 13 Mar 2009, 15:02.
Last edited by FormerArmyDude on 25 Oct 2023, 17:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Franklin

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Location: Ithaca, New York

Schools:Cornell University - The Johnson School

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15 Mar 2009, 06:58

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My suggestion would be Cornell. I must admit I don't know as much about Michigan but I did visit the campus with my sister who planned to attend law school there. Incredible campus! My impression of UMich is that it is a great general management program.

I don't want to divulge too much about myself but here's a little background to provide context on "why Cornell": I'm currently a graduate student at Cornell and have been waitlisted for the MBA program. My background is in real estate, I have a law degree from top state school, and I'm interested in finance.

Although I believe both schools to be incredible, I really think Cornell is a perfect fit for what you want to do. Cornell is somewhat known for general management so if you want to improve that skill set you can do that. But what I really think distinguishes Cornell is its finance program. I believe it to be one of the most underrated in the country. I have taken several finance courses through the Johnson School and must say the course content is challenging and the professors are incredible. One of the professors I have taken a class from trained under Aswath Damodaran who is highly regarded in valuation. You've already mentioned the Cayuga Fund so you know about that.

One thing that I have noticed (attending state schools all my life) is that Cornell's network is vast. In addition, the alumni stick together. There are so many Cornellians out there in a myriad of fields. I have found that throughout my internship search that Cornellians bend over backwards to help a fellow Cornellian. Maybe Michigan's alumni is just as great but I'm not as familiar with UMich's alumni network.

Finally, Cornell is a top university and part of the Ivy League. While sports may not be the focus of the school it's still really fun. Hockey and basketball are just a blast.

I think your decision may ultimately come down to fit. Maybe you should visit Cornell again. I'm originally from California and I love Ithaca. It certainly isn't for everyone but this place has grown on me. I hope this helps.

If you have any questions please let me know.

Franklin Delano Bluth

lsuguy7

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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

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Schools:Ross Class of 2011

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15 Mar 2009, 18:10

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I love Arrested Development...it's not easy being white it's not easy being brown

ryguy904

Current Student

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Location: Sunny So Cal

Concentration: Investment Management

Schools:CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden

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13 Apr 2009, 09:39

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Decision Made.

I appreciate everyone's throughts and feedback. If I have some time in the near future, I'll write a post with my experiences and thoughts on the application process.

gclub is a great place.

Rubashov1

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Schools:Kellogg '10

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13 Apr 2009, 10:02

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I voted for the winner!

(I guess I really should have voted in the 2000 and 2004 presidential campaigns

isa

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Concentration: Healthcare, Strategy, MC

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13 Apr 2009, 10:03

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congrats on finalizing the decision!! 8-)

zmfatla

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Schools:Ross '11

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13 Apr 2009, 10:51

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Let me be the first Rosser to say congrats! Looking forward to meeting you this fall. GO BLUE!

bherronp

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13 Apr 2009, 11:14

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Did you come out for GBR? I was sad to have missed it (was in the Netherlands on MAP).

ncp

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13 Apr 2009, 19:35

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Congrats on your decision. See you in the fall!

ryguy904

crosscountry09

Joined: 25 Jan 2011

Last visit: 14 May 2015

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Location: Washington D.C.

Schools:UVA Darden; Cornell-Queen's Johnson School,

GPA: 3.2

WE 1: Dean's List

WE 2: Air Force Officer 11 Years

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Kudos: 7

04 Feb 2011, 15:00

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IHateTheGMAT

GoBruins

not even gonna bother. Before tucker here gets into it. UCLA has higher GPA. SAT I've already made the case before.

Your SAT argument holds no weight. The UCLA averages are below the 25th percentile at USC in all 3 subject areas (math, writing, critical reasoning). GPAs are comparable (3.7 vs 3.78 unweighted) and UCLAs are all from grade inflated public high schools in California (believe me I know, I went to one of them).

These stats are not relevant to the discussion on MBA programs

crosscountry09

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Schools:UVA Darden; Cornell-Queen's Johnson School,

GPA: 3.2

WE 1: Dean's List

WE 2: Air Force Officer 11 Years

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04 Feb 2011, 15:06

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zmfatla

Let me be the first Rosser to say congrats! Looking forward to meeting you this fall. GO BLUE!

Congrats! I think you made the right decision for you.

MBAbot

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08 Jan 2016, 12:51

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