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Updated on: 02 Nov 2010, 21:51
Originally posted by Praetorian on 30 Oct 2010, 04:23.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 21:51, edited 47 times in total.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 21:51, edited 47 times in total.
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Chicago Booth Master Thread
Contents
| Full Time MBA Stats | |
| Average Class Size | 550 |
| Average Work Experience | 5 Years |
| Average Age | 28 |
| Average GMAT | 714 (80% fall in the 660-750 range) |
| % International Students | 36% |
| % Women | 35% |
Rankings
Chicago Booth belongs to the Ultra Elite Cluster(Ranking Systems) of Full Time MBA Programs based in the United States.
- Columbia (coming soon)
- Harvard (coning soon)
- MIT (coming soon)
- Northwestern (coming soon)
- Stanford (coming soon)
- Wharton (coming soon)
- Completed application
- Three Essays
- Professional resume
- Two letters of recommendation
- Unofficial transcripts from all post-secondary educational institutions
- GMAT score report
- TOEFL or IELTS score report (international applicants)
Chicago Booth requires applicants to submit three essays.
Quote:
Chicago Booth requests two letters of recommendations. The recommender should know you well and offer specific examples of performance and contributions to the organization. Further, the content and substance is more important than the title of the recommender.
- One professional recommendation from a supervisor. A letter from a current supervisor is preferred. If you work for a family business or you own your own company, the letter should be from a client or a bank that does business with you.
- There is no preference for source of second letter of recommendation. The second letter should add new and valuable insights to your application. The letter can be professional in nature or from an organization, club or volunteer project with which you are associated.
- Provide a written letter of recommendation
- Rank the applicant with respect to his peer group
- Other Guidelines:
(a) Evaluate the applicants strengths,
(b) Recommend areas of development (including efforts taken by the applicant to show improvement),
(c) Evaluate team skills and leadership ability
(d) Evaluate the applicant's initiative, curiosity and motivation.
(e) Any other matters we should know.
Booth offers two options for campus visits:
- Daily Campus Visit Program This is an informal half-day program. You may sit in on a class, attend an Admissions information session, get a tour of the Charles M. Harper Center, and have lunch with current students.
- Chicago Booth Live
These are full-day events held on a Friday and allow to you to spend a day as a Chicago Booth student. You will engage students and faculty in the classroom, and meet new friends at a reception called "Liquidity Preference Function."
Directions to Campus
The campus is located minutes away from downtown Chicago. Visitors can travel using a cab, bus, or train. Allow 30 - 45 minutes for parking.
Accommodation
- After an applicant submits their application, the application is first verified to make sure it is complete.
- Approximately half the applicant pool is invited for an interview each year.
- For applicants invited to interview, they can interview with an Admissions Fellow (second year students) on the Chicago Booth campus or they can interview with an alumni in the city they live.
- In response to questions from applicants, the admissions committee has clarified that Booth has no preference for interviewing with second year students on campus or with alumni off campus.
Booth provides extensive support for obtaining an internship:
- Full Day Conference: Alumni and other top professionals share experiences on their respective career paths and current roles.
- Flexible Curriculum: You can take tcourses you feel you'll need for success before your internship begins;
- Corporate Events: Over 150 corporate events where you can learn about internship opportunities.
- Student Mentors: student mentors provide career advice and information about what to expect during an internship.
Chicago Booth 2009-2010 Internships
- 100 percent of students attained an internship; 80 percent of these positions facilitated through Chicago Booth.
- 76.8 percent of internships were based in United States.
- Outside the United States, Western Europe and Asia were most popular locations. In Asia, Hong Kong and Shanghai were the top cities, while London and Paris were the most popular European locations.
- Companies included A.T. Kearney, Apax Partners Worldwide, Bain & Company, Credit Suisse, Cisco, Diageo, Dow Corning, Harrah's, IBM, Kraft, Procter & Gamble, Yahoo, T. Rowe Price, and United Airlines.
- Functions included brand/product management, business development, private client services, strategic planning, consulting, investment research, and private equity.
Chicago Booth 2009-2010 Internship Report
- More than 250 firms participated in on-campus recruiting at Booth.
- Over 87% of graduates had job offers within three months of graduation.
- 48 percent of International Students accepted positions in the United States.
Chicago Booth 2009-2010 Employment Report
Chicago Booth Alumni Club
List of Booth Alumni - Wikipedia
Booth Alumni at Boston Consulting Group
Booth Alumni at Deloitte
GMAT Club Members at Booth
dabots
kwam
rhyme
Office of Admissions and Financial Aid
The University of Chicago Booth School of Business
5807 South Woodlawn Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60637
Tel: 773.702.7369
Fax: 773.702.9085
[email protected]
Useful Links
Apply
Chicago Booth Blog
Chicago Booth - First Year Class
Curriculum
Chicago Booth Discussion Forums
Chat Center
Considering Booth - You Tube Channel
Early Career Enrollment
Employment Reports
Full Time MBA Program
Frequently Asked Questions
History
Interviewing at Chicago Booth
Letters of Recommendation
MBA Podcaster- Day in the Life at Chicago Booth
Visiting Campus
Essays
Accepted.com Essay Analysis
Clear Admit Essay Analysis
Stacy Blackman Essay Analysis
Walker's Guide to Slide Presentation
GMAT Club Chicago Booth Applicant Threads
2011 Applicant Thread
2010 Applicant Thread
2009 Applicant Thread
2008 Applicant Thread
2007 Applicant Thread
Comparisons with Other Schools
Poets and Quants:Chicago Booth vs. Northwestern Kellogg
Booth vs. Kellogg
Booth vs. Haas
Booth vs. Wharton
Chicago Booth Blogs
Official Blog: Booth Insider
Chicago Booth Marketing Group
Mothers at Booth
Applicant and Student Experiences
GMAT Club member kwam's application experience
Adam Markus - Interview with a Chicago Booth Student
Interview Experiences
Clear Admit- Chicago Booth Interview Experiences
Updated on: 02 Nov 2010, 19:50
Originally posted by Praetorian on 30 Oct 2010, 04:23.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 19:50, edited 3 times in total.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 19:50, edited 3 times in total.
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Chicago Booth Full Time MBA Program
| Full Time MBA Program | |
| Length of Program | 21 Months |
| Courses per Quarter | 3-4 Years |
| Total Course per Quarters | 21 |
| Campus Location | Harper Center, Chicago |
The Chicago Approach, Full-Time MBA
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjQrfoOl8r0[/youtube]
Curriculum
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUgaz7Xo6iI[/youtube]
There are five major components that make up the core curriculum: foundation, breadth, general management, leadership, and electives.
- Foundation courses focus on developing analytical tools and knowledge that support the rest of the curriculum.
- Breadth courses cover the functional activities of business management and the environment in which firms operate.
- General Management examines the concepts and techniques required for effective management.
- Leadership training is the only required class. All students must take Leadership Effectiveness and Development (LEAD), where they'll work on key management skills such as negotiation, team-building, and giving feedback.
- Flexible Curriculum: Only one mandatory class called Leadership Effectiveness and Development that focuses on management skills such as negotiation, team-building, and giving feedback.
On the Curriculum:Quote: - Finance and economics are most popular areas of concentration. Entrepreneurship is the second most popular.
Useful Links
Chicago Booth Full Time MBA
Chicago Booth Global Initiatives Team
Curriculum
Experiential Learning
Student Life at Booth: Chat with First Year Students -Nov 2009
Student Life at Booth: Chat with First Year Students- March 2010
The Marketing concentration at Booth: Chat with Professor of Marketing Art Middlebrooks and others
Updated on: 02 Nov 2010, 20:24
Originally posted by Praetorian on 30 Oct 2010, 04:26.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 20:24, edited 13 times in total.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 20:24, edited 13 times in total.
Kudos
Bookmarks
Adcom and Student Perspectives
MBA Podcaster - Getting into Chicago Booth
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQsy14Yy7M[/youtube]
US News Interview with Booth Adcom
- Setting yourself apart: Self awareness is key to setting yourself apart in a competitive pool. Understanding your unique history and how that has shaped choices and plans is critical.
- Essays: Through essays, Booth attempts to not only understand how well an applicant writes, but how effectively they can convey thoughts and opinions.
- GMAT and GPA are important predictors of academic success. A mixed academic performance can be offset by a high GMAT score (along with an explanation of the variability in performance).
- There are no minimum work experience requirements. However, most candidates have at least two years of experience at enrollment. On average, students with two to nine years of experience are a great match for the Full Time MBA program.
- Choice is what distinguishes Chicago Booth from other schools. While Booth deos have a core curriculum requirement, the order, level of difficulty and teaching method is up to the student. Thus, students may design an program that builds upon their prior experience and education to give them the tools they need.
- 4000 positions are posted and 7000 on campus interviews are conducted for internships and full time positions each year.
- Some common applicant mistakes include silly mistakes such as not changing the name of schools from one application to the next and not answering required questions. The bigger mistakes include failing to understand themselves or the schools well enough to explain how they are a fit for Booth.
- An Archetypal Chicago Booth Student: Proactive, curious about the world, compelled to ask questions and explore alternatives.
Read the full interview here:US News Interview with Booth Adcom
Debunking the Top 10 Application Myths
Quote:
Accepted.com - Chicago Booth MBA Admissions Q&A
Quote:
GMAT Club member Kwam's Experience
Quote:
Adam Markus Interview with a Chicago Booth Student
Quote:
Chicago Booth Pros and Cons - Rhyme's perspective
Chicago Booth Pros - Rhyme's perspective
- The curriculum is flexible
- You can take classes elsewhere in the university
- You can take two courses Pass / Fail
- The name DOES open doors and it does command respect
Flexible Curriculum
So lets talk about the flexible curriculum a bit. The school really sucks at selling this. Two reasons. First, they lie about how flexible it is. Second, even though they lie, they still forget to mention why what IS true is actually interesting.
So, first off, raise your hand if you've heard "There's only one class required at booth!". Ok you can all put your hands down now, cause that's not true. Reality is here.
https://www.chicagobooth.edu/fulltime/ac ... index.aspx
Sure, LEAD is the only required class (if you can even call it that) -- but you DO have to take classes among the foundations and functions.
What that means is that you will have to take an accounting course, you will have to take a microeconmics course and you do have to take a stats course. As far as I'm concerned, getting to pick between Accounting I and Accounting II isn't flexible.
So lets say there are 4 required courses.
Nevertheless, the flexible curriculum IS cool. Here's why:
First, you get to know 2nd year students during your 1st year. This is good for a number of reasons. They know how to manage the reqruiting process and they provide a lot of great insights / help / cover letter reviews etc. They are also likely teh very people who will be reading your cover letter for the FT job in a year, so being friends with the new associate at company X certainly doesn't hurt. Third, if they end up in your study group, they know how to 'play the game' and have figured out how to prioritize tasks so that you dont' feel overwhelmed. This is a pretty big perk -- because honestly, without it, you aren't going to get to know 2nd years that easily.
Second, its flexbile not just in what kind of classes you take (e.g. I dont want to take that, I'll take this) but also in what order you take them in. That's cool. For instance, if you plan on recruiting for banking but havent a clue about finance, its nice that you can jump right into investments in your first quarter rather than have to be stuck taking accounting first. That helps when it comes time to interview because now you actually know *something* relevant to the subject. Similarly, if you plan on going into marketing, take marketing your first quarter and worry about takign statistics later. In fact, some people dont' do accounting until their LAST quarter on campus. (yes, accounting is that boring)
Third, the flexibility means you can have a kick ass schedule. Only want classes monday and tuesday ? Thats doable -- in fact, my final quarter at Booth I had that schedule. What a beautiful schedule -- no class Wed, Thurs or Fri. World's longest weekends. Its also helpful if you want to find a part time job (as some peopel do) because you can actually work two full 8 hour days if you want (and a number of people do in PE and VC)
Fourth, even the same classes -- say, introductory economics, are taught by different professors with different styles. One professor might prefer team oriented work like a final report while the other might be a more traditional midterm and final. Hate math? Don't take the one with the midterm and final. Hate teamwork? Try it with professor Y. Prefer a class that has no midterm at all? Take professor Z. Or if you want a class with 70% of your grade determined by homework? Try professor Q. Etc. You can really pick what YOU like and what YOu want.
Fifth, you can combine classes to craft a schedule that works. If class A is going to be heavy on reading, then dont' take two other heavy reading classes at the same time - combine a case-heavy class with a non-case based course. Combine a teamwork intensive class with one thats more individually focused.
You put this altogether and you get a VERY flexible curriculum that really lets you take what you want, when you want, with what professor you want. (I got all the courses I ever bid on). So thats a big pro at Booth. The school talks about it, but again I think they just don't do a great job of selling that.
Taking Classes Outside Booth
Some of the other related perks here is that you can take classes outside of Booth if you want (e.g. intensive chinese if you are a masochist) -- some people take classes in the law school as well (e.g. private equity law). I'm told the law school is crazy and its awful, but you can do it if you want. Similarly, you can take two classes pass fail and have them count towards your graduation requirements. Thats cool. Either because you can take something you know will be hard and just pass fail it, or because you can lighten the stress of a quarter you otherwise knew was going to be tough.
Brand Name
The name does open doors. I imagine thats pretty obvious -- but it really does. I like how when you mention you went to Chicago people's eyebrows go up -- they immediately assume you are smart (unless you are a PT who asks a corporate recruiter about consulting, then they and I both think you are an idiot).... and the cachet and almost 'table stakes' assumption about you is certainly a nice perk.
Chicago Booth Cons - Rhyme's perspective
Academics
First, there's really very little competition here. Sure, there are those people who *care* more about their grades and there are those that practically appear to be comatose in class -- and everything in between, but there's hardly a lot of competition. A couple of reasons for this. First, there are far more people who aim for a "B or a C" than people who aim for an "A or A-". So, right out of the gate, that reduces the competitiveness in class pretty substantially.
Second, much of what you do (with the exception of certain courses like accounting) is very team oriented. A lot of these team efforts begin to approach collusion instead of competition. For instance, if you have a 5 person team and say, 10 case writeups to do over teh course of a class, some teams will just say 'ok you do the first 2, i'll do the next 2, etc..' and you just cut your workload in a fifth. Professors don't much encourage that of course, it's sort of cheating the learning process a bit being that the whole idea of team oriented learning is taht you discuss (not that you just divy up the work).
Third, peeople just aren't like that -- its quite common for people to share cheat sheets for final exams ("oh i took that class last quarter, let me give you my cheat sheet for the final") or notes or other resources.
Fourth, and perhaps this should have been first, we have grade non disclosure. IT means that you cannot divulge your GPA to any recruiter until after you graduate. So (and this relates to my first point about most people not aiming for As) there's really very little incentive (outside of your own personal sense of accomplishment) to aim for As. I'm proud of my high honors but other than my parents, I'm not sure anyone cares.
Fifth, it takes EFFORT to get something lower than a C. I don't know of people who have -- although I know they exist. But honestly, you REALLY have to do nothing to get below a C. The overall difficulty of the academics are far overblown.
Sixth, part of it is just being smart -- pick your teammates well. People get reputations as 'idiots' or 'slackers' quickly, and those people won't find themselves in good groups. If on the other hand, you get the opposite reputation you'll find that people you barely know are trying to get you to join their group. Having the pick of the litter makes your life a lot easier. It's not always easy to cut out the weak ones and I've thrown a few really poor performers under a bus which I didn't like to do, but it was the right choice. By the time I got into my second year, I had all of the smartest folks in teh room pairing up on my team - most of whom (if not all) were smarter than I was.
The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. I was a <3.0 undergrad and I graduated with high honors from Booth. That either means I got smarter in the interim, everyone else got dumber, or people just dont' compete that much on academics. It seems unlikely that either of the first two things happened.
LEAD
LEAD is arguably the most overhyped utterly useless entirely worthless bag of garbage ever concieved by man. And that's me being polite. In all seriousness, I don't think I could create something more worthless if I tried.
The problems with LEAD are numerous. First, from the get go they tell you take it seriously, but then clearly set it up so that you don't have to. 50% of your "grade" in LEAD is attendance. Soemthing like 25% is just submitting the homework and the remaining 25% is discretionary. Keep in mind that LEAD is just a "pass fail" course. So in other words, if you show up, hand ANYTHING in (even if its a blank piece of paper with teh words 'i hate you' written on it) you've got a 75% in the class. How can you possibly fail? Moreover, how can someone tell you this is a capstone course that you should take seriously when the grading is set up this way?
You might not believe it, but there is always someone who DOES fail LEAD. If you find someone who does, take note -- they are the type of person you dont want in your study group.
To me, thats enough to kill it, but lets continue painting this pig, shall we? Now, a leadership development class, you would presume, would be taught by people with, well, leadership experience. Not so. It's taught by second year students. Now some of these people are impressive, but its hard to take a 22 year old analyst from Merrill seriously when they tell me how to be a CEO. I have undigested meat in my colon thats older than some of these people.
Its a farce of the highest order and one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. These people know nothing more about leadership than you do, some of them barely have more than a few years experience. Bring in a CEO to talk, or bring in someone who does this stuff for a living. But to purport that a 2nd year is somehow now qualified to teach ethics and leadership is insulting to my intelligence and to theirs. As for crisis management? Seriously? A 25 year old teaching you how to manage life crises? With what? Some 'johari window' or other such crap pulled from some framework? It's the equivalent of my attending swimming lessons at a local pool and then teaching a class on 'how to ditch an airplane in high seas and survive'.
Then there's the mock cases you do that are supposed to represent 'real life' situations...... just kill me now. The real life examples are so far removed from real life, they might as well be taken from the latest harry potter movie. How about this for a nice realistic situation you might find yourself in? *real case*. You play the CEO of a 5B dollar hospital. I play the CFO. Someone else plays the Private Equity buyer. The nurses at the hospital have been giving free medical care to some homeless people and the CEO and CFO are worried that if they sell to the PE buyer they firm will put a stop to it. Is it unethical to withhold that from the buyer? What should they do? Then you get together and pretend to debate it for 30 minutes. The key word here is pretend.... because here's the kicker: everyone already knows everything: everyone has read the same case, and everyone knows each others arguments ahead of time because they are all in the written case, so you just spend half and hour mentally regurgitating out crap you ALREADY KNOW to each other. (You aren't allowed to make up facts).
Worse, they tell you what the supposed personalities of each person are - so if the CEO is supposed to play hard and tough - are you supposed to be hard and tough? What if thats not the type of person you are? They also tell you what point of view you are supposed to argue. What if you don't agree with the supposed point of view you are supposed to take? How will this help you practice your skills by pretending to be someone else and pretending to adopt some viewpoint you don't actually have?
So here's how it goes: Nurse: "But its not that expensive!" (page 2 of case) CFO: "How expensive is it?" Nurse: "Uhm uh I don't know the case doesn't say". CEO: "Well I think its important for our community" (page 3 of case), other guy: "But its bad for our relationship with the PE guy" (page 4 of case)..... Third guy: "Well I don't actually feel this way but I'm supposed to say that I oppose telling the buyer...." (page 5 of case) . CEO: "Yea, ok, well uhm, I disagree) (page 6 of case, except you can tell he doesnt)
As if that didn't render the excercise entirely meaningless already, there's absolutely no evaluation of an outcome. There is never a 'right' answer. It doesn't matter what you decide. They don't even take a tally to see if you all come to a similar decision.
Here's how LEAD Should be. First, don't hand me the exact same case info as everyone else, because thats just retarded. Second, use something realistic. How about this: A member of your study group hasn't been pulling their weight and you arent sure how to deal with it. Or maybe you've started a new job and you arne't happy with your assignment, and want to take on more leadership, how do you handle that? Or maybe your new boss is doing something you are concerned about, who, if anyone do you tell? Now *thats* real, relevant, and unlike becoming the CEO of a fictitious hospital, probably something will happen to you in the next 5 years. Third, make the !(#!(#@ decision matter. In another course I took they actually had each game be zero sum - someone wins, someone looses, and although your grade isn't tied to the outcome you do see z-scores for everyone so you can see how you did.
You want to know who benefits? The people who teach the class - they get to get up in front of an audience 2x a week and practice public speaking, they get a large amount of one-on-one training with a real executive coach (he's older than 25). I honestly believe LEAD exists not for the students in the class but for the people selected to teach it.
so there's another con of the program.
Jobs
Jobs are a wierd beast -- in some ways its very uncompetitive and in other ways its hypercompetitive. A lot of it frankly, is just PERCEPTION.
On one side of the coin - people do help each other out -- I had an instance where I was walking to an interview and ran into a girl I knew who had just finished her own interview (for the same job). She mentioned to me that I should brush up on concept X and concept Y -- out of her own volition. I ended up with an offer from that company in part thanks to her heads up. I had that kind of thing happen more than once -- I made groups of people to practice cases with and we shared frameworks we developed amongst ourselves. To be completely transparent though, I have to admit that when others asked me for my frameworks, I wouldnt' share them. It's not because I'm competitive but its because I spent hours and hours building them and I wasn't about to just give that work away to people who couldn't be bothered to do it themselves. (I did share them with people I trusted however).
On the other side of the coin - you DO have the people on the other end of the spectrum as well. One guy showed up to a top 3 consulting firm recruiting dinner after having accepted a job offer in banking. Considering banking was his top choice a lot of people wondered why he didn't have the curtesy to cancel and give someone else a chance to go. He said he wanted to keep his options open. People like that don't make great impressions and I promise you it did him far more harm among his peers than it helped him -- he ended up loosing his FT job offer and I doubt a lot of people are going out of their way to help him.
Another fellow came up to me one morning and asked me if I had landed job X. I told him I didn't. He said "I did" and walked away. A few months later over drinks I complimented him by telling him: "I'm glad you got that job. I honestly think you were the better candidate and you seem happy. I know it came down to me and you at the end there and for what its worth, I think they made the right choice." His response? "Oh, I don't think they ever really liked you. I think they were just being nice to you." Another fellow that wasn't much liked to be sure.
These examples are the worst of them though - honestly, people aren't generally like this.
I honestly believe it FEELS more competitive than it is. The recruiting season at Booth (and at any other school) is a stressful time. You balance classes, activities, friends, family and job hunting in a short four or five week timeframe all the while acutely aware of who has what job. Word travels fast -- "Did you hear so and so didnt' get a 2nd round?" or "I heard they are only hiring four people this year" or "I can't believe she got an offer from Goldman, she can barely keep herself from walking into walls." You'll see friends get denied from dream jobs, you'll get 2nd rounds they don't (and feel bad about it) and vica-versa, you'll see some REALLY smart people struggle to find a gig, you'll also see some of the dumbest people you've ever met magically land gigs at top firms. You'll question your interests, etc. Imagine for a moment the stress of your MBA interview and waiting for a decision from the school -- now just repeat that experience a couple dozen times, except this time, if the answer is no, you don't just keep your old job and reapply next year -- this time, if the answer is no, you have no job and you just blew a couple hundred G. It makes the MBA admissions process look like a cake walk.
It's a stressful process and that tends to breed some degree of competition - no one wants to be the person without a job offer while all their friends are sitting on two or three. But that feeling that 'this is it' -- that this is the 'ultimate test', the 'end to all ends' is really more in your own head than anything else.
That stress effects different people in different ways - some people are perfectly content not interviewing on campus and holding out for their dream job till June. Others don't or can't.
So, is it competitive? Maybe. It certainly does feel competitive -- but I don't think thats a function of Booth, I think its just the nature of the game. I imagine you'd feel that stress at Wharton or Kellogg or any other school just as much as you would at Booth.
Now lets talk part timers.
For internships, only FT students can recruit. For full time jobs, PT students (provided they have a certain number of classes and have completed certain training) can recruit. Make no mistake about it, this will piss you off (even if half of them blow their chances within 10 seconds of opening their mouth). There is nothing more infuriating than some guy with a job he may or may-not have any real intention of leaving showing up to a recruiting event and monopolozing the recruiters time. You'll want to punch their lights out more than once.
I got my revenge one night at a recruiting dinner -- I showed up early and dressed business casual. All the part timers always overdo it and showed up in suit and tie. I'm calm and collected and drinking at the bar, and pretty soon I've got a semi-circle of these yahoos around me and frankly id prefer it if they just screwed off and let me finish my drink before the company representatives kicked thigns off. It then dawns on me they think I work for the company, so I turn to one of the guys, look him straight in the eye and say "So, what do you think are the 3 biggest challenges facing our firm over the next five years?" It was the most beautiful deer-in-headlights look I've ever seen. The guy practically crapped himself right then and there. You might think this was mean, but trust me, spend a quarter dealing with PT people showing up to every event you have and you'll be a little mean too.
The point is they are there - they will piss you off. The good thing is that they are generally pretty unpolished when it comes to recruiting and most of them blow their chances immediately.
Example - same night, same dinner. Halfway through the meal, this girl shows up, plops down next to me and apologies for being late. I'm thinking to myself, "Sweetie, 20 minutes is late, an hour into dinner is idiotic." Although she had probably already destroyed her chances, she gracefully stepped on mine after mine from taht point forward. She proceeds to explain that shes late because of "homework" but that she lives in a "really nice apartment just down the street" and that therefore it only took her a "few minutes" to walk over. Great, so you show up halfway through a meal because of homework? Yea, what a winner. As if that wasn't enough, she then interrupts the recruiter (sitting on my left, shes on my right) and proceeds to pepper her with questions. The recruiter, who was quite clearly in the middle of another conversation with the person to her left, is left in an uncomfortable position of trying to manage this. My conversation in the mean time is also cut short as this girl begins to talk across from me. As if this wasn't enough, she then starts to talk about how she's also perhaps interested in consulting (note: this was not a consulting company dinner) and starts asking me if I am thinking about consulting too..... in front of the recruiter. I deflected the question and spent the rest of the night hoping the flambe desert would accidentally set this girl on fire. In the end, the only person to get an offer from that firm was a FT student.
Another PT student recruiting for a consulting gig went to some event and commented to the recruiter "So hows the hiking thing going?". The recruiter was obviously perplexed -- how did this girl know she had started hiking? The rest of us were just confused. Turns out, I later discovered that the recruiter's profile on facebook was set to open and that this girl had basically gone e-stalking. You can bet that girl didn't get an interview.
So, does it make it 'harder' to land a job? I honestly don't know how much of a material difference it is, but it will certainly FEEL like it makes a difference. It helps that they seem to all have the sabotage switch soldered to an 'ON' position though.
If you ask me what the #1 thing that irritated me about Booth is, I'd tell you exactly this. To be fair, this situation isn't limited to just Booth, other schools have similar policies, although I think Booth makes it too easy for PT to show up.
ChiBus:Lessons from a Former and Future First Year
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Updated on: 02 Nov 2010, 07:31
Originally posted by Praetorian on 30 Oct 2010, 04:28.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 07:31, edited 7 times in total.
Last edited by Praetorian on 02 Nov 2010, 07:31, edited 7 times in total.
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Chicago Booth versus Wharton
Last year, I had the choice between both schools - I got accepted at both. It was a very tough choice, so I guess you have to break it down in elements and assign weights to each element. Visiting the school IMO won't give you an honest view of the school, since these visits are marketing tools usually. Also, welcome week-ends are not only marketing tools but they are organized in the same time for both schools (it was the case last year and I'm sure it was no coincidence).
Back to the elements:
- Academics: tough one. Both have their lot of great teachers - and I'm sure, their lot of **** ones too (I know Wharton does). Yes Chicago has an important amount of Nobel Prizes, but: 1. are they going to teach you? 2. if so, are they any good at teaching? Very often, the answer to these questions is no. I'd put them equal, despite the fact that Wharton's curriculum is quite demanding - I can't judge Chicago's curriculum (demanding vs. other business schools: my undergrad was 10000x times more demanding than this in terms of exams, but that's another debate).
- Program: the big debate here is cohort system vs. cherry picking your classes. You've seen in the Wharton thread what I think are the pros and cons of a cohort system (103-t66548?sk=t&sd=a&start=780). At Chicago you can choose ALL your classes. It's a very good thing if you have a good idea of what you want to do, but it's hard(er) too meet people I guess. To be honest the core system gives you a good base to tackle the electives in the second year, which is good, and there are certain great classes I would have never ever chosen if I had to cherry-pick (ethics with Donaldson for example, a real eye-opener), but I still think that Chicago's system is very nice. I don't know how you get to get close to people though in that kind of system, especially considering the fact that EC activities are not that extensive from what I gather (more on that later). So basically here it's up to you to determine what works best for you. It's a tougher call than I would have imagined: in the beginning I thought that cherry-picking was brilliant, but now I see all the advantages of a cohort system, which I didn't see before.
- Brand name: this was the element that made me favour Wharton over Chicago (the weight was heavy on this one for me). I still believe that Wharton has a big edge in terms of brand over Chicago, especially in finance and outside the US (and even in the US for that matter). Although I do agree that Chicago has the momentum atm in terms of brand. I think that if it goes on like that, in 10 - 15 years they'll be challenging H/S/W. But that supposes that Wharton doesn't react. But at the moment IMO Wharton is still the best financial school in the US. That has an impact on the financial recruiters IMO.
- Geography: well, NY and DC are 1 hour away and AC is next door (not sure if that should come into balance but just mentioning ). The close presence of NY is a poisoned gift: that means that it's very easy to go and visit Wall Street firms and show your face and motivation, but that also means that the companies EXPECT you to do it. The closed list events for NY have been announced apparently, and the rumour goes that the most successful ones (the ones that got in >6 events) are the ones that were constantly there visiting companies (I think it's a complete aberration but blame the game, not the player). For me, applying in London only, it didn't change anything. In terms of tourism, obviously NY's presence next door is super exciting.
- International students: both schools are pretty international, but I think Wharton has an edge here, which is nice. 45% of students in my class are international, which is unparalleled in an MBA program in the US. The flip side is that this international presence is skewed towards Asia (the Indian-friendly reputation is not a legend), but it's by no means a disadvantage of course.
- Sports: I'm only going to talk about Wharton here, I don't know how Chicago is. The indoor infrastructure is great here: the gym is great, the fitness centre is huge and has everything you want: basketball courts, a (great) golf simulator, a pool, etc. The outdoor infrastructure however is a true calamity: it is embarrassing that a university like Upenn only has one or two "multi-purpose" grass fields. I know that the university is in the middle of the city, but still, that's no excuse. That's actually my biggest complaint about the school.
- Infrastructure: Chicago clearly has an edge here. They have a brand new building dedicated to the MBA students. Wharton's Huntsman Hall is gorgeous and pretty new too, but we have to share it with the undergrads (there's a story behind this but I wont go into details) and it's clearly too small for 2 big programs like ours. It's tough to book study rooms and it's tough to find sports in the study lounges, especially in the buy periods. However, there are plenty of other places where you can go and study on campus (and even meet those fit girls from law), but it's annoying that you can't do it in your own building.
- Student groups: I'll comment here on the 2 EC activities where I had interaction with other schools: soccer and rugby. Basically in both we crush Chicago! More seriously, in both sports we have sent 2 teams every time to each tournament. I actually can't remember seeing Chicago at ANY of those tournaments. It's not a big sports school IMO at that would have been (if I had known) a big deal-breaker. I also know that we usually have good teams in financial competitions (from what I heard), but so might Chicago (I don't know). But globally, due to the sheer size of the program, you'll find that student groups are bigger, which makes it nicer.
I'd also like to take a minute here to tell the admits that the best thing they can do is JOIN THE RUGBY TEAM. It's the largest sport at Wharton and by far the most fun. Don't worry if you've never played, 80% of the team members didn't play before. It's great fun, there's a fantastic team spirit (on AND off the pitch) and it's a great alumni resource (the rugby team is a very close network inside the Wharton network).
- City: well here I think Chicago has an advantage. Philly is not nearly as bad as people thinks, but it's still not great. Chicago is a big, lively city. Although Philly has a lot to offer too: all major sports are present, decently sized city where you can do most things by foot (an exception in the US), a decent selection of bars, etc. But in terms of choice I'm sure that Chicago outclasses Philly. Plus Philly - although apparently it's getting better - is still a fairly dangerous city (the Centre City is safe though). I won't go into too many details (don't want to scare anybody off), but it's definitively a difference compared to Brussels for example (where I come from).
Finally I'd like to finish here with the Wharton Leadership Ventures: the leadership ventures are great (although overpriced) possibilities to visit places where you will probably never go again: Antarctica, Kili, Cotopaxi, etc. That is something that I definitively took into account when I decided for which school I was going to go to. Chicago has its own pre-term trips, but I don't think that the selection they offer equals Wharton's selection.
Academics
I agree with Audio in that both are well recognized, but I will advise that Chicago's exams are hard: EXTREMELY hard, and my undergrad was tough (Electrical Engineering in Telecommunication, integrals all over the place till my last day). And from the professors with prizes (Nobel or whatever) they do teach well, actually one of the most praised teachers is Kevin Murphy who will probably be a Nobel Prize a couple years from now, also these folks with prizes have to be good speakers, they had to defend their things to have their prizes. From talks with friends of mine at Wharton, the approach is different, but both will give you World Class education. If you can go to both places and watch a couple of classes. It is indeed a tough choice regarding here.
Program
I'm a chooser, and I wanted to start with challenging courses. The "challenge everything" from Chicago is present almost everyday, instead of taking a basic class in a topic I already know (and pay 5 grands for this) I can pick a more advanced class and go further, learn more. It can be overwhelming though, as with choices you need to think ahead and think wisely. Another thing that is good for career switchers is that while in other schools people are learning basic stuff and going for summer internship interviews, you may go learning more advanced things - this is what a second year told me. Just keep in mind that it means that you will work hard, especially if you're like me (I decided to push myself). Regarding that making connections, I believe that all depends on you, it doesn't matter if one goes to Chicago, or Wharton or anywhere else, to make connections it depends on you.
Brand name
Wharton still has a "heavier brand name" but The University of Chicago beats UPenn, in some countries - South America for instance - this makes a difference especially if you want to recruit for some rules and industries outside the mainstream. If you want to see what is better for you see the courses that each school offers, for me Chicago has an edge over every school for the thins I want to do after school (IM and Trading).
Geography
Chicago is isolated, no doubt about it, but for $150 bucks you can fly to NYC; however from Philly is much shorter and perhaps less expensive and by train. As Audio said location is sometimes a poisoned gift, I imagine how hard is to people in Columbia and NYU, they must go everytime to recruiters.
International students
40% in Booth, not that far from Wharton, and I can say it´s pretty balanced there, though Asians are majority, for natural reasons. I made good connections with people from all continents.
Sports
The structure is good, but honestly, I haven't had time to benefit from it, I used the swimming pool once and played basketball once. I have a friend who's into Ironman stuff, and he's been everydays at the Ratner Center: https://athletics.uchicago.edu/facilitie ... center.htm
Infrastructure
I just want to add that even though we share facilities with PT and Weekend MBAs, I think it's good, I used many times the Gleacher Center to study, and next quarter I will have a class downtown. There are plenty of space to study, though during exams sometimes it's hard to book rooms, but nothing that I would complain.
Student groups
Chicago is not a big sport school, everybody knows that Audio, stop remembering me though. I am participating in 5 groups - Investment Management Group, Hedge Fund Group, Latin American Business Group, Public Speaking Group and DSAC (The group that helps prospective students). I may join another one the Media and Entertainment Group. I'd say though that 3 is the max number, I'm participating more in the first 3 I listed. Other groups participate in challenges such as the IPO, Consulting, etc, and I know that a groups is in the final phase of a marketing thing with Mozilla.
City
Here Chicago has a BIG edge in my opinion, especially in Arts - my wife is a Fine Artist and only NYC beats Chicago. As Chicago is the "Midwest Capital" there are many options there in terms of bars, nightlife, restaurants, etc. Sports are not that good though, as the Chicago teams are not that good the the Phillies have just won the MLB. I've never had problem with Hyde Park, though people always advise not to go further south than campus. I was talking to rhyme a couple of weeks ago and I told him that Chicago is a city to live, not only study, for an urban person like me it's perfect. Also prices there aren't bad, actually comparing to my friends in Boston, Philly, NYC, Bay Area, Chicago is cheap. Some people don't care about 2 years, I do, 2 years will be, luckily, around 3.5% of my adult life for me and my wife this is a huge number. The weather is harsh, especially for a Brazilian like me, but hey I'd be screwed everywhere but California.
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Please review the thread here:Booth vs. Haas
