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(Un) Scientific analysis of gmatprep

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Repeating the GMAT Prep  [#permalink]

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New post 04 Dec 2009, 09:37
Hi,

I was wondering what your thoughts were on repeats with the GMAT Prep. I did the test 3 times now and I did achieve my all time highest in both areas (Q 47, V 31 - 630). On one hand, I am happy for the score gain/increase. On the other, I feel its just because I have seen repeat questions, predominantly in RC CR and PS. I did get my first Permutation question right (first time in my test taking experiences). Also, managed my time more effectively and cut my losses - wasn't as stubborn (feel that I can still improve on this). So, I will assume that given that I have seen some questions my true ability is like a 550? Is that a correct way to think about it?

Also, I have this "adaptive feeling" about the test... can anyone comment on this scenario?
First 5 questions - I get a Work problem wrong (quite simple, not THAT bad)
20 questions later - I get another work problem
towards end of exam - I get another work problem.

Essentially, I feel that that if I get wrong one type (work problem in this scenario) of question, I will probably see a harder one in the future of the test. I dont know if its me going crazy though...

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

All the best,
Jas
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Re: (Un) Scientific analysis of gmatprep  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2009, 23:24
aj1545 wrote:
bb wrote:

Fantastic GMAT Score - must be 750?


I got a 730 actually on the GMATprep. I have yet to take the second one and I am saving it for the week before my test (Oct. 10).

I have taken Kaplan twice and got 710 & 760. Manhattan = 730. Princeton = 710. I have traditionally performed well on test day so I am hoping that I get 700+. I think that my app will speak for itself as long as I can get in the game.

My exp with MGMAT CAT is different. In Q, I did not have a very long chain of corrects (the longest was 5). But the test kept feeding me 700+ questions since Q#4 onwards (and never fed me 500-600 level question).
In V, even after getting several wrong in the first 10, I had 9-correct-answer-long chain in Q#20-30 range and by that time I started seeing 700+ again. If their cAT algorithm is the same as gmac, then, the first few questions being very important may not hold true and one can recoup the losses by getting a long-correct-answer chain even after the first 10.
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Just how much overlap on GMATPrep  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Dec 2009, 18:23
I read timetrader's post on the GMATPrep and he said that it can be take one or two extra times for practice, but there might be some overlap. I was wondering just how much over lap is there if you take both tests again for the second time and for the third time. I took the first exam before I started studying to estimate how much work I'll have to do. Now I've studied for a couple of months, and would really like to see how much I've improved and how much more work I'll have to do. However, I would like to save a test to do a week before the test. If I do the second test now and uninstall the software and then reinstall, can I do both tests over again without seeing more than 10% overlap?
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Re: Just how much overlap on GMATPrep  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Dec 2009, 18:42
11MBA wrote:
I read timetrader's post on the GMATPrep and he said that it can be take one or two extra times for practice, but there might be some overlap. I was wondering just how much over lap is there if you take both tests again for the second time and for the third time. I took the first exam before I started studying to estimate how much work I'll have to do. Now I've studied for a couple of months, and would really like to see how much I've improved and how much more work I'll have to do. However, I would like to save a test to do a week before the test. If I do the second test now and uninstall the software and then reinstall, can I do both tests over again without seeing more than 10% overlap?


installing and reinstalling won't do anything..the program is stored in your registry..you would have to find a way to delete from the registry
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Re: (Un) Scientific analysis of gmatprep  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Dec 2009, 18:50
Best thing to do is the take an exam and don't review what you got wrong/right. You can review what you got wrong, as far as question number, but don't review the answers.
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New post 12 Dec 2009, 14:00
Is there a lot of overlap, when the two tests are taken for the second time?
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New post 13 Dec 2009, 04:34
What I read on this and other forums, you can take test 3-4 times easily without much overlap (i.e. 4-5 questions). GPrep has good amount of questions.
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New post 23 Jan 2010, 02:25
In general, I have notified an obvious correlation of getting a substantially higher score the less goofy I am on the first 9 questions.

The myth seems somewhat logical to me if I bring it into real life perspective. Although I know the logic and coding behind GMAC's software for determination of assessment, I think its somewhat common sense that initial assessments carry more weight rather than fine tuning one's ability past the first 1/4 to 1/5 of each respective section. Meaning the if then statements (obviously probably much more complicated in reality) matter more initially because thats a relative of how fast you can rise or fall in a mere few questions in the beginning. Kind like the phrase

initial impressions most?

Out of curiosity have any of you tinkered with the myth of the initial 5 or 8 or 10 questions on the GMAT Focus CATs? (Been hearing those are 2nd to none for Quant prep.
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New post 30 Jan 2010, 06:24
now it'd easier to contact Princeton (or who it may be) to probe the binary\statistical algorithm its based on... but must admit the dedication and energy on this thread... I could think some of they guys could become great security experts and the other bit more edgy evil minded could become hackers... :) :) :) :)

Nice read really.
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Re: (Un) Scientific analysis of gmatprep  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Feb 2010, 02:58
This was great analysis and effort devoted is highly appreciated.

What I believe is they have hired smart people as we pay a lot to give gmat lol.
So, they must have used complex algorithms or artificial intelligence programs to understand and mould the level of question anytime.

Eg. They will throw question randomly from level 550-650 first and based on first few question..say 4-5 or 7-8 they will guess the level. Though after every wrong/right ans level would have been varied.

Now algo had decided we are 650 level, now if we ans question above 650 level we will get actual + bonus mark( these marks are not actual marks, they might be anything used for analysis by the algo) and if we ans the question wrongly below 650 we lose actual + penalty mark. And side by side our initial level is also varied and they keep on throwing questions above/below depending upon our ans.
And these bonus/penalty marks must have been different for different level and number of question answered right/wrong in a row. So just by getting 4-5 right and then guessing a question will not harm.

Now its obvious number of question with difficulty level in their DB must be like this
750+ < 700+ < 650+ < 600+ < 550 +
So more the number of questions in a particular level we exhaust, more likely to have that level in the analysis.

I would like to request BSD to experiment this::: in quant we have 37 questions.. after every 4 right, ans one wrong and in total you will have around 9 wrong.
again after every 8 right, ans 2 wrong in a row and again you will have 9 wrong.
again after 2 right one wrong, 6 right one wrong and again you will have total 9 wrong.
Just compare the results.

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New post 13 May 2010, 07:35
Getting 12 wrong answers is not the same as getting 12 consecutive wrong answers. Your claim is valid only if you miss 10 consecutive ones in the middle/end and see totally different results compared to missing 10 in the beginning.
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New post 13 May 2010, 09:08
I'm not surprised by your Verbal experiment's outcome. You are essentially saying that one of SC or CR is more important than the other. However, that can't be the case, because an easy SC question should have the same weight as an easy CR question. Likewise, a hard SC question should have the same weight as an equally hard CR question. So when you get all SC correct and the rest wrong, you're essentially getting relatively the same amount of hard questions right as when you get all CR correct and the rest wrong.

Hope the above makes sense.

bsd_lover wrote:
Yup, I was at it again today. Next set of experiments :
3. What is the importance of the last 17 questions?
Experiment : If I get the 1st 20 correct and mess up the last 17 what will happen ?
Methodology : Kick butt in the 1st 20 and guess the last 17
Results : Q49 with 12 wrong overall.
Analysis: Whoa !!! 49 ? with the same number wrong as the 1st experiment ... By Question 20 I had received all the tough quant concept questions that I could have ever hoped for. However, I wasn't expecting a score as high as 49. Although that might be because I got a few guesses on the last 17 right. Even so I'm sure I'd have received 46 or above here. Goes to underscore the importance of those first 10 questions compared to the last few.

4. What is the importance of CR in Verbal ?
Experiment : If I get all the CRs correct and mess up everything else what will happen ?
Methodology : Kick butt in all the CRs and guess everything else
Results : V13 with 29 wrong overall.
Analysis: I think I've busted my own myth that CR is more important than SC in some way. This doesn't seem to be the case. I got 11/11 CRs correct and still could not achieve more than 13. The CRs were different to the ones I usually get (at 40+ level). I encountered 4 of these CRs in the 1st 10 questions.
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New post 13 May 2010, 09:25
excellent work!! keep on posting updates

In verbal we have sc, rc and cr.
However, in math we have different topics.
But what if you get wrong a geometry question, sometimes, I think that later appears another geometry question.
What do you think?
Don't you think that sometimes there are some basic topics that are always cover and if you get one of this topics wrong, another question of this topic is going to appear in the exam.

anyway, great work and very interesting results!!
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New post 23 May 2010, 02:45
1
great post buddy.

I'm wondering. I kaplan free practice test, I got 4 incorrect in quant. it showed 45 scaled score. I was expecting atleast 49 here, but my first question was wrong. Does 1st incorrect answer scale down your score 4 points? or is just kaplan's strategy to enroll me for the course?
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New post 23 May 2010, 10:26
Just got a 50q on the GMAT Prep. I took it without trying to find patterns. Also, I only ran into 2 questions I had seen previously. One I got wrong and one right, but not on purpose. I took the questions as I got them. Here is some info. in case it helps.

2 out of the 1st 10 wrong: #3 and #8
Then got on a hot streak until I reached #20, which I missed
I also missed #22
Then I missed #28, 29, 31

Total 7 Incorrect:
More importantly 2 out of the 1st 10 were incorrect. Still got a 50 so don't know if that proves it's a matter of streaks more than anything else (or not missing too many consecutively)

1st two verbal questions were very easy. I then skipped the rest of the questions.
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New post 23 May 2010, 16:07
7 incorrect still 50, that's great. :-D

Best we could do is to take one extra minute just after the question we are sure of being incorrect or randomly guessed.
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New post 23 May 2010, 18:32
Wow guys, this is awesome. Now I won't stress quite as much when I'm panicking over an early quant question.. wait no, I still will :[
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New post 24 May 2010, 00:09
brianfried wrote:
Wow guys, this is awesome. Now I won't stress quite as much when I'm panicking over an early quant question.. wait no, I still will :[



But I would still suggest you to kill the initial questions with extra caution and make sure you don't miss consecutive questions. It should be intersperse throughout.
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New post 25 May 2010, 04:07
I took 2 GPREPs in the last 3 days.

GPREP 1 - Q43 - Overall 20 Wrongs. 7 Wrongs in the 1st 20. Last 10 (28 - 37) - All wrong. Ran out of time, had to guess them.

GPREP 2 - Q42 - Overall 13 Wrongs. 8 Wrongs in the 1st 20. Only 3 Wrongs in the last 10. None consecutive wrong in last 10.

I had a good feeling about Quant this time. I was expecting 46 - 47. Bump, it was 42 and 1 less than previous attempt despite fewer Incorrects.

This goes to say that 1st 10 or maybe 1st 20 matters, cuz the software fairly fixes your range by this time and your performance in the last 10 or 7 doesnt really help or hurt much.

One more observation in both Quant attempts, I got 2 consecutive wrongs 3 times in the 1st 20. Maybe consecutive wrongs further helped to downgrade my Quant level - range.

GPREP 1 - V38 - Overall 14 Wrongs. Got all RC right. SCs - 8 Wrong. CRs - 6 Wrong. I spent lot of time on RCs, hence ran out of time towards the end and had to guess like 10 Questions.

GPREP 2 - V35 - Overall - 12 Wrongs. RC - 4 Wrongs. SCs - 6 Wrong. CRs - 2 Wrong.
I wanted to replicate the same here. Get all RCs right by spending more time so that I can assure myself of V36 atleast. But 1 RC came after 33 and had to guess those 3 or 4 of those RC Qs and ended up with 2wrong out of it. I think if I had replicated the same here, like all RCs right, I would have hit V38.

What do you guys think of this Verbal strategy? I know not the best of strategy, but if RC was my strength, why not put that wee bit extra time to minimize the RC errors like only 1 or 2 RC errors.
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New post 27 May 2010, 11:27
GMATPREP1 I have taken last Sunday (without the AWA):

Q50- 6 errors: 2 in the first 15Q's, 1 between 16-30 and 3 between 31-37. (3PS, 3DS)
V42: - 5 errors: evenly distributed: 3SC, 1RC, 1CR.

As a rule of thumb, when you are hitting the top scores in Quant, around (+-2) 12 wrong questions give 49, 6 wrongs questions give 50 and 3 wrong questions 51.
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Re: (Un) Scientific analysis of gmatprep   [#permalink] 27 May 2010, 11:27

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