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Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]

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Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2016, 21:51
Thank you for the questions - I am already gearing up to rethink the whole thread and approach. Good point about Hjort's ranking thread, though it predates you by about 5 years. This started out as a simple answer to a user's post and grew into a sticky. At this point I am thinking of a new step chart or something else. I am trying (desperately) to provide some footing in this very slippery rankings topic.

In regards to fluctuations - there is a ton of it happening on the Sub-30 level - here is a good chart to help see the craziness going on. The top 10 is almost monolithic in comparison, and yes, I fell pray to a round number of 10.


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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2016, 22:05
bb wrote:
Thank you for the questions - I am already gearing up to rethink the whole thread and approach. Good point about Hjort's ranking thread, though it predates you by about 5 years. This started out as a simple answer to a user's post and grew into a sticky. At this point I am thinking of a new step chart or something else. I am trying (desperately) to provide some footing in this very slippery rankings topic.

In regards to fluctuations - there is a ton of it happening on the Sub-30 level - here is a good chart to help see the craziness going on. The top 10 is almost monolithic in comparison, and yes, I fell pray to a round number of 10.

Ranking is one of those aspiration problems that seems simple, but no one has able to solve, like ending world hunger. Personally, I always go with whichever ranking that has Fuqua the highest. It used to be BusinessWeek, but now I'm in search of an obscure publication that will have the innovative mindset and the status quo challenging courage to rank us #1 again.

:shock:

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2016, 06:10
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bb wrote:
Thank you for the questions - I am already gearing up to rethink the whole thread and approach. Good point about Hjort's ranking thread, though it predates you by about 5 years. This started out as a simple answer to a user's post and grew into a sticky. At this point I am thinking of a new step chart or something else. I am trying (desperately) to provide some footing in this very slippery rankings topic.

In regards to fluctuations - there is a ton of it happening on the Sub-30 level - here is a good chart to help see the craziness going on. The top 10 is almost monolithic in comparison, and yes, I fell pray to a round number of 10.



What can be done is to provide a more conservative approach (something that we aerospace engineers love to do!). Take different reputed rankings and rip them apart based on the parameters and methodologies that they use to come up with the rankings. Once done, look at the different parameters (take the lowest values if the same parameter gets repeated over different ranking sets and then do a weighted %age for the entire set). This will give you 1 rankings system (different from others) but will have taken all the tangible parameters into account.

Talking about which one to take, Bloomberg placed Kellogg at #3 in its ranking earlier this year. It becomes a bit difficult to say which one is the better one or even the best.

Let me know if you need any help with this.
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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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As the daughter of an engineer, I have to appreciate you guys' approach to this -- I've never seen anything like it!

But since I somehow didn't get any of those analytical genes and am instead a more "creative" type, let me just give you a few other things to think about that aren't really possible to put into a formula or spreadsheet. And I guess I should mention that I graduated from U-M Ross (before it was called Ross!) in '96 and HBS in '03 and still have about $50k in student loan debt and would do it all over again in a heartbeat, so perhaps I'm not the best person to weigh in on this.... BUT....

I feel like there are so many intangibles that should come into someone's decision for something like this. It is really easy to think about it in terms of student loan debt vs salary and ranking and all of that, but I am living proof that life can throw some HUGE curveballs your way that you would never anticipate, both professionally and personally. Like, if you had told me before I got two business degrees that I would end up going through FIVE mergers (all on the acquiree side), get sick of working for "The Man" and end up becoming a freelance writer and film critic and author, I wouldn't have believed you. But even though my career is something I couldn't have even imagined when I was in school, I would still go back to the same schools and get the same degrees despite my not-so-businessy role now and the debt I carry, and that is because I have already seen how the degrees and the network can influence so much more than, say, your initial salary out of school or your compensation even ten years out. I would not have ever gotten a book deal had I not had the weight of an HBS MBA to make me "legit." A close friend, who went to Booth, is able to start his own firm after being let go from a company he worked at for 12 years solely because of the Booth network. People who have helped me with awful healthcare dilemmas came through our b-school networks... really personal stuff that you can't wrap your mind around. And I know that there will probably be several more blindsiding moments in the future where I will end up being really happy that I have my degrees to fall back on or those networks to reach out to. On top of all of that, some of my best friends in the world are from business school and I can't imagine my life without them.

So my two cents is that you only live once and the debt is usually manageable -- if I've been able to do it on a low writer's salary since 2008 after I left Corporate America, so can you. Go to the school where you feel like you fit in the most and will have the best time. In other words, go with your gut. It is possibly to overanalyze something like this, believe it or not! Think about yourself as a 90-year-old looking back on your life. What might you regret? How can you AVOID that regret? What will you wish you'd have done? That is how I try to make most major decisions in my life.

And, of course, if you DO have a decision to make between two or more great programs, remember to count your lucky stars because there are literally thousands of people who would love to be in your shoes.

Hope that helps and wasn't too mushy for you all! ; ) Best of luck!

Engr2012 wrote:
bb wrote:
Thank you for the questions - I am already gearing up to rethink the whole thread and approach. Good point about Hjort's ranking thread, though it predates you by about 5 years. This started out as a simple answer to a user's post and grew into a sticky. At this point I am thinking of a new step chart or something else. I am trying (desperately) to provide some footing in this very slippery rankings topic.

In regards to fluctuations - there is a ton of it happening on the Sub-30 level - here is a good chart to help see the craziness going on. The top 10 is almost monolithic in comparison, and yes, I fell pray to a round number of 10.



What can be done is to provide a more conservative approach (something that we aerospace engineers love to do!). Take different reputed rankings and rip them apart based on the parameters and methodologies that they use to come up with the rankings. Once done, look at the different parameters (take the lowest values if the same parameter gets repeated over different ranking sets and then do a weighted %age for the entire set). This will give you 1 rankings system (different from others) but will have taken all the tangible parameters into account.

Talking about which one to take, Bloomberg placed Kellogg at #3 in its ranking earlier this year. It becomes a bit difficult to say which one is the better one or even the best.

Let me know if you need any help with this.

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I've been an admissions consultant with Stacy Blackman Consulting since 2008. I went to Harvard Business School for my MBA and Michigan Ross for my BBA. I have helped clients gain acceptance into all of the top programs and am a big believer in letting your voice and your personality shine through in your application materials. Best of luck!

Interested in a free 30-minute consultation with the Stacy Blackman Team? Sign up here: http://stacyblackman.com/contact

Erika Olson | Stacy Blackman Consulting Inc | http://www.StacyBlackman.com

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Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 30 Apr 2016, 04:42
This really is great thread at the right time for me.

I'm choosing between a Full Ride and a place on the Dean's Fellow List (for whatever that is worth) at UNC Kenan-Flagler vs. no money at Michigan Ross.

My goal is to break into Consulting or General Management (as a backup).

Although, I understand that the Full-ride is too good to give up, there are two major reasons I am still considering Ross.

1. I am an International (Indian) coming from a Family Business Background. I have read and heard that it's particularly difficult for those looking to change industries and function and that Ross is one of the better schools for achieving just that.

2. Although the difference in rankings is apparently small, I feel there is a difference in perception (or tiers) between them where Ross is considered a top 10 elite and KF a top 20. The difference in brands (UMich vs UNC) and global network is vast too.

From what I have understood, MBB is always a long shot unless its a Top 5. Would it make any sense to pay extra $120k to Ross, just for a better MBA experience overall and somewhat better opportunities at graduation?

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 22 Sep 2016, 20:38
Within top 10 b-schools, try to trace where the top employers go for...for eg. Hedge Funds, Venture Capital, Corporate Venture Capital and Boutique Investment Banking and Consulting firms especially the ones which pay over 200K$

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 17 Jan 2017, 20:22
How will all these analysis hold when I have to choose between Duke/UCLA/Ross vs ISB???

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jan 2017, 06:56
rohitbansal1507 wrote:
How will all these analysis hold when I have to choose between Duke/UCLA/Ross vs ISB???


Well first you need to be admitted to any of those. Then you decide if you only want to work in India. If you want to only work in India then pick ISB as it's cheaper & quicker. If you want to work anywhere else then you pick the US school. From a non-Indian/Asian background (I am not a US Citizen either) there is absolutely no comparison between the top 30+ US schools and the Indian schools (IIMA, ISB etc.) because the class profile is extremely uniform (75% engineers at ISB, 86% at IIMA, 98% Indian) so the shares experiences in class will be pretty limited and job opportunities are mostly limited to one geography. Again only my opinion which is probably biased but I just cant take these schools seriously from the point of a global education & opportunity provider.

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jan 2017, 18:46
Hi mbamsay,
Thanks for your response.
Well, if if I graduate from a top US program I'll still need to go through the H1B process. Being an international applicant I'll have limited employers/positions who will agree to sponsor, even in long-term its much more difficult to switch jobs on H1B. Going by recent trends I don't think things will improve.

Compare that to ISB. I'll join ISB with a 740 GMAT and international work ex., chances are I'll be shortlisted by every major employer, at least I'll get a fair chance to target the top employers.

Regarding the "experience" point, I buy that 100%. I myself graduated from NUS and I can see a clear distinction in the peer learning and even the teaching methodology compared to schools in India. I totally agree that a top US program is much superior to ISB/IIM in terms of learning and overall personality development. But then, the world isn't perfect, there are always gives and takes. The real question is - Is the difference between ISB and US top schools equal to 130k and the uncertainty??? That's the answer I'm looking for :-D

PS: I realized this thread isn't directly related to this topic hence I've created another post for this discussion. Will appreciate if you could share your viewpoint on this forum:
isb-vs-us-top-schools-duke-ucla-ross-tepper-haas-232377.html

Though I may sound like this, but my intention is not to advocate ISB or Indian schools in any way. My honest intention is to understand the various factors and take an "informed" decision. :-D

mbamsay wrote:
rohitbansal1507 wrote:
How will all these analysis hold when I have to choose between Duke/UCLA/Ross vs ISB???


Well first you need to be admitted to any of those. Then you decide if you only want to work in India. If you want to only work in India then pick ISB as it's cheaper & quicker. If you want to work anywhere else then you pick the US school. From a non-Indian/Asian background (I am not a US Citizen either) there is absolutely no comparison between the top 30+ US schools and the Indian schools (IIMA, ISB etc.) because the class profile is extremely uniform (75% engineers at ISB, 86% at IIMA, 98% Indian) so the shares experiences in class will be pretty limited and job opportunities are mostly limited to one geography. Again only my opinion which is probably biased but I just cant take these schools seriously from the point of a global education & opportunity provider.

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New post 10 Apr 2017, 05:44
Hello!

So I am new the concept of pursuing an MBA. Currently a sophmore in my undergrad. 6 years active duty for work experience.

I come from a low income background, so the concept of family assistance or large savings going into an mba is likely out of the realm of plausibility.

The aspiration is Top 15 with scholarships and student loans.

How would say a Park Fellowship from Cornell or 30k in scholarships from CBS impact my ability to get student loans for living expenses?

Im a 1st generation college student, and the prospect of a top 15 B-school is too good to stress about student debt. I believe in the long run 150+k in student debt would be well worth the opportunities an ivy league mba offers.

If the COA for Cornell has a limit on cost of living at 21k, and I get a fellowship. Since student lenders consider COA minus aid, does that mean they would limit me to 21k in loans?

Is 21k something a student could live off of for an academic year?

As stated above, I will not get an family assistance and my savings will likely be less than 10k.

Posted from my mobile device

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post] [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2017, 04:38
jmikery wrote:
Quote:
Schools do look at your compensation history to determine if you will help or weigh them down in terms of your earning potential after graduation – they are interested to have you employed as fast and as lucratively as possible after graduation as that will boost their ranking, attracting better applicants, which in turn will make ranking even better – it is a never-ending cycle.


Hi bb,

On this point, how does having a low salary pre-MBA affect your candidacy? Does it help the candidate since the school can point to someone who worked in an emerging market for $15-20k a year and say they've increased their salary 5 fold to $100k a year or do they view those guys negatively since they can choose to work in emerging markets and drag down the average salary for all graduates or once potential employers see that they made $15-20k pre-MBA, they might lowball the candidates more than they would someone who was making $70k pre-MBA


If you have good CGPA you dont need to worry about that.

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]   [#permalink] 24 Apr 2017, 04:38

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