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ISB vs US Top Schools (Duke/UCLA/Ross/Tepper/Haas/Kellogg 1Y)

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ISB vs US Top Schools (Duke/UCLA/Ross/Tepper/Haas/Kellogg 1Y) [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 01:54
Hi Guys,
I'm in deep mess. Please help me out.

I'm an Indian male engineer working in Singapore. Already have a MS degree from NUS. I got into ISB in R1 and am awaiting results for few other US schools. I have applied to multiple schools in US and have already started to get multiple interview schools. Hopefully I'll convert at least one.

My query is - should I join ISB or wait for results from US schools?
ISB batch starts in April 15th and US schools will give results till March-end. It'll be tricky to give a 2 week's notice to my employer and move back to India hence I'm doing the research now.

Here are pros and cons (in my case):

ISB: I come from manufacturing background and ISB is really good in placing folks like me. Moreover, among the largely Indian crowd I have a strong chance of being shortlisted by good employers given my international ex. and strong GMAT. Even career growth would be good given ISB's strong brand and for the fact that I'll manage to get a good launch in my career post MBA. Though I'll have to live back in India for the rest of my life :( I personally dislike the Indian work culture (that's the reason I moved out in first place)

US Schools: US MBA will take another year of my life. I don't need that additional year of study since I already have a Masters and I'm not willing to have a 360 degree change in my career. Nevertheless, I love the US programs and the country in general. On the negative side, being an international student my job prospects will be limited, even if I get a job, H1B will be a nightmare. US schools are good, no doubt, but are they worth all the uncertainty? I'm not sure...

Let me also mention, I already have US$150k in personal and family savings. Mostly invested in stocks, debt instruments and real estate. I'll be 29 when I start my MBA. If I join a US school, I'll pass out at the age of 31, with NIL bank balance and possibly even with a US$50-100k student loan. If I go to ISB, my 150k will become 120k (not bad) and I'll have a descent job in a matter of 8-9 months (ISB conducts placement session in November) with life time security of money and job.


What do you guys think???

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Re: ISB vs US Top Schools (Duke/UCLA/Ross/Tepper/Haas/Kellogg 1Y) [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 12:44
rohitbansal1507 wrote:
Hi Guys,
I'm in deep mess. Please help me out.

I'm an Indian male engineer working in Singapore. Already have a MS degree from NUS. I got into ISB in R1 and am awaiting results for few other US schools. I have applied to multiple schools in US and have already started to get multiple interview schools. Hopefully I'll convert at least one.

My query is - should I join ISB or wait for results from US schools?
ISB batch starts in April 15th and US schools will give results till March-end. It'll be tricky to give a 2 week's notice to my employer and move back to India hence I'm doing the research now.

Here are pros and cons (in my case):

ISB: I come from manufacturing background and ISB is really good in placing folks like me. Moreover, among the largely Indian crowd I have a strong chance of being shortlisted by good employers given my international ex. and strong GMAT. Even career growth would be good given ISB's strong brand and for the fact that I'll manage to get a good launch in my career post MBA. Though I'll have to live back in India for the rest of my life :( I personally dislike the Indian work culture (that's the reason I moved out in first place)

US Schools: US MBA will take another year of my life. I don't need that additional year of study since I already have a Masters and I'm not willing to have a 360 degree change in my career. Nevertheless, I love the US programs and the country in general. On the negative side, being an international student my job prospects will be limited, even if I get a job, H1B will be a nightmare. US schools are good, no doubt, but are they worth all the uncertainty? I'm not sure...

Let me also mention, I already have US$150k in personal and family savings. Mostly invested in stocks, debt instruments and real estate. I'll be 29 when I start my MBA. If I join a US school, I'll pass out at the age of 31, with NIL bank balance and possibly even with a US$50-100k student loan. If I go to ISB, my 150k will become 120k (not bad) and I'll have a descent job in a matter of 8-9 months (ISB conducts placement session in November) with life time security of money and job.


What do you guys think???


I think if you want to stay in the same industry, one year will do the trick and is more cost efficient. I for instance want to switch industries, so 2 year is ideal for me. I believe that picking the school that will get you where you need to go is the most important. ISB is well regarded and meets your requirements. Total cost of attending US schools is close to $100k/year if you don't have any scholarships.

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 13:58
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Congrats on your admits! Great job.
It is all about where you want to live/work after you graduate - US, Europe, or India. If you are planning to go back to India after Tepper or even Fuqua, it seems somewhat a waste of a year of life, money, and transitioning back and forth, but if you want to work in the US, ISB won't help no mater how fast, cheap, or convenient it may be. You will have to go to a US School, so it is more than just what you outlined.

P.S. I hope you won't pass out at 31. You are still young!
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New post 18 Jan 2017, 17:37
Thanks guys for all the suggestions and opinions.

bb,
Firstly, I'm so honored that you replied to my post. Thanks a ton..gmatclub is absolutely brilliant :lol: :-D
Coming to my concern, how does it matter where "I" want to live? For sure I want to live in US, I'm absolutely clear about that. But the point is "Can I?". H1B has a 50-50 chance of making it and things will only get worse in future (going by the trends and recent developments). Even if I don't want to, I may "have to" come back to India after my MBA or after my training visa expires. I wonder how will I feel that day when my fellow colleagues who choose ISB would have already had there first promotions :roll:

bkhu,
I see you come from manufacturing background as well. Would you mind sharing the career transition you're planning to make? :-D

bb wrote:
Congrats on your admits! Great job.
It is all about where you want to live/work after you graduate - US, Europe, or India. If you are planning to go back to India after Tepper or even Fuqua, it seems somewhat a waste of a year of life, money, and transitioning back and forth, but if you want to work in the US, ISB won't help no mater how fast, cheap, or convenient it may be. You will have to go to a US School, so it is more than just what you outlined.

P.S. I hope you won't pass out at 31. You are still young!

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 19:17
My 2 cents.

Did you get admissions from schools like Kellogg and Haas, if so, I would choose them over ISB? Brand value and brand equity will last longer than H1B worries. Even if you don't manage to get a job in the US. You would be probably able to find a very strong gig in Singapore where you are currently located.

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I don't think you are in a deep mess, getting into a top India MBA program is a really good mess to be in

If you don't like Indian work culture, don't go to ISB. Your classmates will mostly be Indians and you will likely graduate and work in India.

US school lasts 2 years so you can manage in an summer internship. Lots of MBAs actually intern throughout the year so they can figure what industry/job is good for their careers so it's not like you just take an extra year just to study. Your job prospect will be more limited as an international student than a U.S. students but if you go to a top school, its like having 100 choices of employers vs 500. Needless to say, you will have a sufficient selection to choose from. You get your own H1b pool (for having master program) plus an international brand (top U.S. education) that can get you jobs anywhere

In term of cost, it might look like a lot now but won't be 5 - 10 years out

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 21:36
bb wrote:
Congrats on your admits! Great job.
It is all about where you want to live/work after you graduate - US, Europe, or India. If you are planning to go back to India after Tepper or even Fuqua, it seems somewhat a waste of a year of life, money, and transitioning back and forth, but if you want to work in the US, ISB won't help no mater how fast, cheap, or convenient it may be. You will have to go to a US School, so it is more than just what you outlined.

Not an expert, but I'd choose based on this. Also, ISB gives a PGDM which is not technically an MBA. I don't think this makes a difference within India, but it might make a difference if you choose to work abroad. Again, I'm not sure about it. I might be wrong, but I'd get an MBA if I want to work outside just to be safe.

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 22:07
What if Kellogg or Ross gives you a full scholarship? I mean hopefully it will be easy and they all deny you :-P but what if?
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New post 18 Jan 2017, 22:14
emancipated123,
It's really tricky to get back to India even from top US/International school. I've been networking like crazy with lot of recruitment managers in many India based consulting firms and MNCs that frequently hire from IIM/ISBs and the general sense is that in India it's the IIT/IIM/ISB brands that rule...And the difference is actually quite substantial...

beefphoforthewin,
That's a very valid point... Thanks for the useful info...

AvalonQQ,
Thanks for the response, but it doesn't matter much. Moreover, no one goes to ISB to work internationally. Even if you move to some other country later in your career that'll be because of your work ex. and mostly will be an internal transfer..

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 22:21
bb wrote:
What if Kellogg or Ross gives you a full scholarship? I mean hopefully it will be easy and they all deny you :-P but what if?


Hi bb,
You're bang on..That's the conclusion I've been coming unto that scholarship can actually make or break my decision. Even if any of the US schools give me a 50% scholarship I think I'll take the risk and head west :lol:
Another wild card is LBS...I'm considering a reject from LBS while doing all this analysis but if LBS happens, "by chance", that'll change the whole equation...

btw, is there any way to analyze which schools give more scholarship and what are scholarship criterias for various schools?

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 22:30
rohitbansal1507 wrote:
emancipated123,
It's really tricky to get back to India even from top US/International school. I've been networking like crazy with lot of recruitment managers in many India based consulting firms and MNCs that frequently hire from IIM/ISBs and the general sense is that in India it's the IIT/IIM/ISB brands that rule...And the difference is actually quite substantial...

beefphoforthewin,
That's a very valid point... Thanks for the useful info...

AvalonQQ,
Thanks for the response, but it doesn't matter much. Moreover, no one goes to ISB to work internationally. Even if you move to some other country later in your career that'll be because of your work ex. and mostly will be an internal transfer..



Did you apply to one year programs like INSEAD/Cambridge/Oxford etc?

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 22:31
There is no pattern to scholarships really. They have been pretty surprising to most and schools don't really negotiate either. It is going to be a fun ride :-)


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New post 18 Jan 2017, 22:43
Dear emancipated123,
I got dinged by Judge and INSEAD...As you can see in my tracker, it's up to date :-D ...Oxford I didn't apply. I'm a bit hesitant to go to UK actually. ISB was my backup in case I don't get top 10 US program or INSEAD.

Dear bb,
Wow! Ad-coms never leave a chance to surprise us :P
I'm sure it'll be heck of a ride, I've my seat belt on :lol: :lol:

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New post 18 Jan 2017, 23:36
rohitbansal1507 wrote:
Dear emancipated123,
I got dinged by Judge and INSEAD...As you can see in my tracker, it's up to date :-D ...Oxford I didn't apply. I'm a bit hesitant to go to UK actually. ISB was my backup in case I don't get top 10 US program or INSEAD.
l:


Sorry to hear that. Personal preference but if I got to into any of those schools maybe with the exception of Tepper, I would choose the US MBA but obviously there are many other considerations to have. Good luck with the rest.

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New post 19 Jan 2017, 13:53
rohitbansal1507 wrote:
Thanks guys for all the suggestions and opinions.

bb,
Firstly, I'm so honored that you replied to my post. Thanks a ton..gmatclub is absolutely brilliant :lol: :-D
Coming to my concern, how does it matter where "I" want to live? For sure I want to live in US, I'm absolutely clear about that. But the point is "Can I?". H1B has a 50-50 chance of making it and things will only get worse in future (going by the trends and recent developments). Even if I don't want to, I may "have to" come back to India after my MBA or after my training visa expires. I wonder how will I feel that day when my fellow colleagues who choose ISB would have already had there first promotions :roll:

bkhu,
I see you come from manufacturing background as well. Would you mind sharing the career transition you're planning to make? :-D

bb wrote:
Congrats on your admits! Great job.
It is all about where you want to live/work after you graduate - US, Europe, or India. If you are planning to go back to India after Tepper or even Fuqua, it seems somewhat a waste of a year of life, money, and transitioning back and forth, but if you want to work in the US, ISB won't help no mater how fast, cheap, or convenient it may be. You will have to go to a US School, so it is more than just what you outlined.

P.S. I hope you won't pass out at 31. You are still young!




hey!

i am currently working in automotive manufacturing and would like to go into either operations in tech or strategy consulting.

i think you are in a good spot with all the interviews you are getting. good luck and let us know what you end up deciding on!

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New post 19 Jan 2017, 17:54
bb wrote:
There is no pattern to scholarships really. They have been pretty surprising to most and schools don't really negotiate either. It is going to be a fun ride :-)

Interesting article I found on scholarship:
http://poetsandquants.com/2014/11/21/wh ... ship-game/

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What did you find interesting? What was the takeaway for a top 10 program? The reason I ask is I find a lot of the articles say nothing and purely speculating or stating the most obvious facts such as schools want to attract the best candidates... so this seems to be another one written for the sake of writing. Yes high gmat score for lower ranked schools and yes to diversity or unique backgrounds that strengthen the class. But this does not really explain most scholarship decisions for the top 10/20 schools.

The reason is that each year schools have different goals because they have a different group applying. In addition, things such as yield rate also play here. Schools know that even if they admit a very capable candidate from a poor country who likely can't afford the program, the candidate won't attend without a scholarship so their choice is to either ding them or admit with a scholarship since admitting without a scholarship will detrimentally affect the schools ranking (higher yield rate). The article seems to miss many other nuances such as marketing heavy people applying to quant heavy schools and getting scholarships while not getting offered anything in lower ranked schools.

At this point now that you have all the applications are in it is too late. Not much we can do but speculate. At least you are not writing pointless things ;-)



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New post 19 Jan 2017, 18:34
Hi bb,
Really appreciate your detailed response.
Well, as someone who learned the meaning of "yield" just a few days back, you can understand why I found it interesting :roll: :lol:

Honestly, I've largely stayed in Asia region and scholarships aren't that common here. Hence, while applying to international schools I always considered the full cost of attendance. But now as I'm researching I feel US schools are more generous (in comparison to Indian/Asian schools) and interestingly now my whole decision seems to depend on where I get a scholarship from :lol:

Whatever happens, this MBA journey has already taught me a lot and it's hard to imagine how it would have been possible without the amazing support of folks like yourself. From GMAT to applications to results to all these amazing discussions. Can't thank enough :thanks

bb wrote:
What did you find interesting? What was the takeaway for a top 10 program? The reason I ask is I find a lot of the articles say nothing and purely speculating or stating the most obvious facts such as schools want to attract the best candidates... so this seems to be another one written for the sake of writing. Yes high gmat score for lower ranked schools and yes to diversity or unique backgrounds that strengthen the class. But this does not really explain most scholarship decisions for the top 10/20 schools.

The reason is that each year schools have different goals because they have a different group applying. In addition, things such as yield rate also play here. Schools know that even if they admit a very capable candidate from a poor country who likely can't afford the program, the candidate won't attend without a scholarship so their choice is to either ding them or admit with a scholarship since admitting without a scholarship will detrimentally affect the schools ranking (higher yield rate). The article seems to miss many other nuances such as marketing heavy people applying to quant heavy schools and getting scholarships while not getting offered anything in lower ranked schools.

At this point now that you have all the applications are in it is too late. Not much we can do but speculate. At least you are not writing pointless things ;-)



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New post 19 Jan 2017, 18:37
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You are a very diplomatic person. I salute your attitude! I am sure you will get a very decent offer from one or more of the schools. Stay positive.


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Hi Rohit,

Based on your LinkedIn request, sharing some perspectives here.

What I know about you:

  • You have strong views (and apprehensions) about the work culture in India.
  • You already have an international Masters degree
  • You don't want to spend one extra year in a class
  • Financing the degree isn't your biggest concern.

What I think:

  • A 1-year MBA in Europe would've been a good option to add to the mix. I'm guessing you had reasons for not going down that path.
  • ISB is a solid school for those who want a career in India. But given your current situation and mindset, you'd be better off attending an international program (despite the work permit risks).
  • While a post job is important, there are many other benefits of the degree that many applicants tend to ignore - the learning, the network, the experiences, the experts on campus, the personal growth opportunities, diverse perspectives that challenge deep rooted beliefs that one holds.
  • As you've been part of an international student group, you'd appreciate how different it is to learn in an international setting. The takeaways are substantially different when you are in a multi-cultural academic environment.
  • Even if you have to come back to India (by choice or by virtue of not getting a work permit), I'd still vote for an international degree.

Does that help?
_________________

Sameer Kamat | Founder - MBA Crystal Ball | Email: info at mbacrystalball dot com

Kudos [?]: 71 [1] , given: 15

Re: ISB vs US Top Schools (Duke/UCLA/Ross/Tepper/Haas/Kellogg 1Y)   [#permalink] 27 Jan 2017, 00:19

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