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Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2019, 13:03
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How would you compare sort of the tiers in between...say a Top 5 vs. a Top 10 or a M7 like Kellogg/Booth to a Tuck/Ross/Yale - which are close in rankings but still a tier apart.


bb wrote:
whitman wrote:
For me, with no geographical or industry preference, I'd put the figure around a 50% scholarship to drop from tier to tier. For example, I wanted to go to Haas, Anderson, or Foster, and had in my head that the roughly equivalent point for them would be no scholarship at Haas = ~$40,000 at Anderson = full ride at Foster. It turned out I got denied at Haas and Foster but got $60,000 at Anderson, but that was the matrix I had established for myself.


Pardon the delay - business trip got in the way.
Thank you for being open and taking a position. The more I have been applying some kind of a system, the more I have been wanting to change it but the new US News rankings have really messed the whole thing up. One of the ideas is to run trade off analysis on alums/graduates and check their perception and then do the same for applicants and run 10-20 simulations on each, establishing the exact value and position of each school.

You have definitely motivated me to complicate the system:
I like the concept of diminishing returns (less linear system such as a diminishing difference such as:
HBS vs Top 10 - 100% scholarship to be on par but perhaps only 75 or 50% to be on par with top 5.
Top 5 vs. Top 15 - 50% scholarship to be on par (which means each position is wroth 5% of scholarship)
Top 15 vs. Top 25 - 40% scholarship (each position is worth 4% of scholarship money)
Top 25 vs. Top 35 - 20% scholarship (each position is worth 2% of scholarship money)
Top 35 vs. Top 45 - 12%, and so on.

Just need to build a chart and perhaps come up with an equation.
Then there are variables such as staying within the same industry or targeting a region the school is strong - that should be a reduction of 10% scholarship perhaps to make it equitable (anyone feels it should be more)?
If staying within the same industry, then probably another 10% reduction?

Thanks for your ideas and your Anderson post - they are this a better post.
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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jun 2019, 15:02
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I’ve done a little bit of analysis about choices other people have made which is probably more relevant than what I think in my castle in the clouds :-)

Out of those who got admitted to HBS or Stanford and Everradi of other top 10 programs with the full scholarship, all have gone to Harvard or Stanford. Some obviously have received assistance but the majority have not received any funding at HBS or GSB. That leads me to believe that if the top two value is so high in the minds of applicants, the separation between the top five and the top 10 Mail should be fairly meaningful. I doubt it’s at the level of a full scholarship but I think people would trade spots for a 50% scholarship to attend a top 5 program such as Booth or Kellogg or Sloan vs Fuqua or Ross or Yale.

However, we have not done this analysis yet. Will ask Narenn to pull the data and share what he finds out.

PS. I feel Tuck has enough unique aspects that it seems to draw a following. Kind of like Tesla so May have a diff result.

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Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jun 2019, 04:21
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bb wrote:
However, we have not done this analysis yet. Will ask Narenn to pull the data and share what he finds out.


Sure bb. I just did a survey of users who received at least one admit from each of the following two school groups: Group1 - Booth/MIT/Kellogg & Group2 - Tuck/Duke/Ross/Haas/Columbia. I found 67 cases of such applicants in our database from 2017 to 2019.

Findings of the survey are interesting. While 67% of the admits chose their school on its brand value, surprisingly 22% preferred their Fit with the school over school's reputation or scholarship money.


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Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jun 2019, 10:48
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Thanks Narenn,

To summarize your table:
10% Chose lower-ranked school with a scholarship
22% Chose a lower-ranked school without scholarship (perhaps data is imperfect here)
68% Chose a higher-ranked school



Sample size: 67 applicants from 2018
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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jun 2019, 13:48
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bb wrote:

International Recognition

If you are ever planning to work outside of the United States, then some of the choices/priorities will be different. For example, everyone knows Harvard and Stanford. Many know Princeton (no business school though), MIT (for engineering), and Yale. A few know Wharton but after that the name recognition really drops off. Granted, if you are applying for an MNC office, the boss there will likely be from Europe or US, but they may be from Australia or Asia, and the value of a name when you meet with local partners or folks not well aware of the western business school hierarchy, you may as well have attended an online MBA from University of Phoenix. Nobody will know what UNC or Kelley, IE, HEC, or Anderson, or even Ross Michigan is. A few spots on the ranking ladder may not matter a whole lot in the US, but they are day and night in other regions.


While the entire post is valueable, this specific point really cant be overstated!

In my opinion, this is a big draw for schools like Judge/Said or Yale SOM.
While the rankings might vary, I (as a European interested in working internationally) would very likely pick the respective schools over HEC, IE, IESE or Ross, Booth & Kellog.

While I don´t want to claim that any of the mentioned schools is better or worse, I personally would put a huge premium on brand that is known on both sides of the Atlantic.

Regards,
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New post 14 Jun 2019, 14:20
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I agree! If you’re wearing a Yale T-shirt versus booth or Kellogg in Africa or Southeast Asia, everyone will know Yale but only if you will recognize Booth or Kellogg. It’s smart that Yale did not come up with a name for its program and simply kept it as Yale SOM.


Theoretically speaking, it is interesting to look at some of the otherwise well-known universities that have started MBA programs. Yale did well - they have been able to break the Top 10 last year, though lost it this year. It’s also very interesting to see the volume of applicants to Yale versus similarly a ranked program at Ross or Duke. I’ll have to pull up the stats on the computer in a bit but last time I remember looking it was almost double! That makes it pretty hard to count for that variance in rankings and popularity.

I would add a few less famous to your list: Tepper program part of CMU, Mendoza, part of Notre Dame, John Hopkins MBA (famous medical school) has somewhat struggled to lift the program off the ground.

The most interesting is the Princeton university. Always ranked with in the top five in the United States for undergrad, which still has not started their own MBA program. I guess there is some admiration that they haven’t been tempted by the allure of the MBA.

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New post 15 Jul 2019, 01:48
Thank you for the post! I'll be checking this out when I'm determining which B-schools to apply to in the next year or two.
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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Feb 2020, 00:58
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bb wrote:
whitman wrote:
I'm curious, bb, how do you define the Top 10 and Top 20? They fluctuate every year and vary between rankings. So you're saying, for example, you'd only take Anderson over Haas if you had a full scholarship over Haas? And Darden over Tuck if you had a full scholarship at Darden? I am not convinced there's that much differentiation between the schools in the ~8 to ~16 range, nor between say Olin and Owen (Owen was 27 last year)



Thanks for reading and bring up 2 very good points. The post i wrote was quite ambitious in the sense that it is hard to speak in absoluteness but I was so sick of wishy-washy answers that I really tried to make it as concrete as possible:
1. Rankings - the latest release has been very non-typical and has undermined reputation of US news. It thew a wrench into my world and I am sticking with last year's rankings that US News confusingly titled 2016 and this year's are 2017.
2. Some of the wording was vague and I have adjusted it to read that better - in the sense that "Definitely would trade a top 10 MBA for a top 20 spot with a full scholarship" as opposed to "would only switch for a full scholarship as opposed to partial" The only one situation I can see is someone who had MBB or iBanking dream since they were 5 but not everyone in Top 5 gets those spots/jobs. It is a big gamble to play.

The question remains what is a Top 10 or a Top 20 and frankly it is a lot less clear now than a few weeks ago when I wrote this post because Top 20 was Anderson and Johnson and Top 10 was Booth, Kellogg and Tuck, but now Booth is #2, Olin is #21 and Stern is #20. So, how about we keep using last year's rankings or perhaps 5-year average...

What do you think? Do you have a table/matrix you would suggest?


I like the P&Q ranking a bit more than US News. I think it balances out the different methodologies quite well. My categorization would be similar to bb, but slightly different:

Tier 1: H/S
Tier 2: Established top 10: rest of M7 + Haas/Tuck
Tier 3: Established top 20: Fuqua, Darden, Ross, Yale, Johnson, Stern, Anderson, INSEAD, LBS (maybe IESE and IMD)
Tier 4: The rest
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New post 22 Feb 2020, 10:30
While I agree generally to your categories Wakanda92, I would argue that it depends on your goals. For example, I would pick Ross over Tuck for anything tech (which I did in 2018), and Stern over Tuck/Ross for banking. So while it is important to use these buckets when selecting schools, it is a whole another ball game to decide where you would actually go.
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New post 22 Feb 2020, 10:38
HEC is actually a pretty strong program in EU. Also Oxford and Cambridge have a strong brand that draws many international (non US) applicants.

There are also some regional schools in China and India that have been rising lately. Finally Canada has had a big boost no thanks to immigration policies or their perception. I don’t know I would yet include Rotman in Top 20 or Top 30 but it has a place somewhere... the rankings and positions of schools are shifting and this crazy year with protests in Hong Kong and Corona Virus are changing things even more.

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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2020, 11:15
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bb wrote:
HEC is actually a pretty strong program in EU. Also Oxford and Cambridge have a strong brand that draws many international (non US) applicants.

There are also some regional schools in China and India that have been rising lately. Finally Canada has had a big boost no thanks to immigration policies or their perception. I don’t know I would yet include Rotman in Top 20 or Top 30 but it has a place somewhere... the rankings and positions of schools are shifting and this crazy year with protests in Hong Kong and Corona Virus are changing things even more.

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I definitely agree on the oxbridge pull on non-US applicants. I knew an MBB guy here in SA who went to Said a few years ago. I was really surprised since it’s quite a new program.
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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Apr 2020, 13:40
While I don't disagree that the MBA degree does indeed have value, I do feel that this value has been eroded over time and actually offers disproportionately more value to candidates from non-traditional backgrounds. Those coming from business backgrounds have to really reflect deeply on what they want to get out of the experience, lest it be a waste of time (and lost of $$$).
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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2020, 22:17
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bb wrote:
<snip>The most interesting is the Princeton university. Always ranked with in the top five in the United States for undergrad, which still has not started their own MBA program. I guess there is some admiration that they haven’t been tempted by the allure of the MBA.

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Princeton has ZERO graduate professional programs (law, medicine or business). Holding true to the value of the liberal arts education ...
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Re: Value of a Top 10 MBA [Long Post]   [#permalink] 25 Apr 2020, 22:17

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