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VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing

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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jul 2013, 07:32
sshivanis04 wrote:
Hi Shraddha
It seems there is an exception to both the verb-ing rules :
1. Placement after a clause not preceded by a comma
The rule states verb-ing modifier should modify the preceding nound or noun phrase but below example shows the exception to this rule :
Exception : There are numerous products that are used to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a newly released item called the Vino-Lok that combines the elegance of a cork with the practicality of a screwcap.

1. Placement after a clause preceded by a comma
- Either presents an additional information about the preceding clause or presents the result of preceding clause
Exception : 3. Bluegrass musician Bill Monroe, whose repertory, views on musical collaboration, and vocal style influenced generations of bluegrass artists, also inspired many musicians, including Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from his own. (GMAT Prep & Verbal 2nd Edition #107 – Choice B)

Need help to understand how do we differentiate b/w a right & a wrong choice for verb-ing modifier with all the exceptions stated above for it.


Hi there,

Just add this exception to the rules – “including” does not really follow the rules of verb-ing modifiers. Whether it is separated by comma or not, it modifies the preceding noun (or noun + modifiers) only. Think of including to play a role of "for example" (Again not in literal translation but only in a role).

So basically, the thing to keep in mind is that "including" is a versatile NOUN modifier. It always modifies a NOUN. But it is usually separated by a comma. And it may modify a noun that is separated by modifiers as well. Here are a few official sentences:
Example 1: (GMAT Prep)
A study by the Ocean Wildlife Campaign urged states to undertake a number of remedies to reverse a decline in the shark population, which includes the
establishment of size limits for shark catches, closing state waters for shark fishing during pupping season, and requiring commercial fishers to have federal shark permits.

D. including establishing size limits for shark catches, closing

Comma + Including modifies "REMEDIES". But look at the modifiers that lie between this modifier and the modified noun.

Example 2: (GMAT Prep)
The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany including , three wooden spears that archaeologists believe to be about 400,000 years old.

E)mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including

Comma + Including modifies "TOOLS". But look at the modifier that lie between this modifier and the modified noun.

Example 3: (GMAT Prep & Verbal 2nd Edition #107)
Bluegrass musician Bill Monroe, whose repertory, views on musical collaboration, and vocal style were influential on generations of bluegrass artists, was also an inspiration to many musicians, that included Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from his own.
Correct has , including where including modifies preceding noun

B) influenced generations of bluegrass artists, also inspired many musicians, including Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from
Comma + Including modifies "musicians" - in this case the closest noun.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jul 2013, 07:41
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veenu08 wrote:
Hi Shradha,

In three months, biologist Glauco Machado gathered enough information about large numbers of a relatively unstudied order of arachnids to persuade an ant specialist at the university to advise him and to publish his first scientific paper.

I have query regarding pronouns. Here referent of him and his is biologist but cant it be ant specialist. Can you please guide me regarding pronoun ambiguity.

Regards,
Veenu


Hi Veenu,

Let's break this sentence to understand if there is any pronoun ambiguity. The sentence says that Machado did something to persuade an ant specialist with the purpose to advise him. Logically, if Machado or anyone persuades someone "to advise him", that to a specialist, it is rather obvious that that the person persuading is seeking advise. He is not trying to persuade him to take advice from him. Again, Machado persuaded the specialist to publish his first scientific paper. The same reason stands here as well.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2013, 03:03
egmat wrote:

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.
A. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling

Remember that the comma that precedes “which” does not separate “which” but is part of the comma pair that separates the modifier "most of them…" from the rest of the sentence.
We will now find the correct choice from the remaining 4 choices.
:?



Hi Shradha,

First of all thanks a ton for providing wonderful articles. You have demystified the difficult concepts for us.

I have a doubt in the above question mentioned in your article. Although, i was able to find the correct answer but i could not understand the explanation of "which". While solving the Q, I misinterpreted that "which" is modifying "Jupiter". This you said was incorrect since " most of ......... Jupiter " is a non-essential clause.

But what is wrong if " which" indicates the planets. I believe "circling" modifies the clause having subject "astronomers" . Astronomers are not circling other stars. :? :| :(

Awaiting your response.

Thanks & Regards

Arunima :)
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2013, 06:37
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Hi Arunima,

Thanks for all your appreciation. I really appreciate it. :-)

Now let’s come back to your doubt.

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

The modification of “which” is not the problem in this sentence. “which” in the original sentence modifies “more than 80 massive planets”. This is so because the information that follows the main clause – “most of them as large or larger than Jupiter” – is placed between two commas. This makes this information non-essential for the overall logical meaning of the sentence.

Notice that when we remove this information form the sentence, we also get rid of both the commas, in the beginning and at the end of the non-essential phrase.

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

In this case, “which” correctly refers to immediate preceding noun as mentioned above. This sentence is incorrect because the non-essential information is a mix of two idioms which is grammatically incorrect. We cannot write a combination of two idioms.

The correct answer choice corrects that error. Once again notice that both the commas belong to the information that comes between “more than 80 massive planets” and “circling”. The comma before the non-essential phrase is not the part of the main clause that will form “comma + circling”. This is will be a wrong modifier as it will modify the preceding clause. But the comma belong to the phrase that comes in between the main clause and “circling”. This is the reason why the correct answer choice is correct.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Nov 2013, 12:10
Hi there,

1. Yes, the meaning is illogical in A and B since ‘having’ indicates that the structure has hundreds of miniature eyes, whereas it is the insect eye that has hundreds of miniature eyes.

2. Yes, ‘the compound insect eye’ is the noun to which both ‘it’ and ‘its’ refer. In both cases, the logical antecedent of the pronoun is the eye, not the structure.
Hope this helps! :-)

Regards,
Meghna
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Nov 2013, 09:24
egmat wrote:
pavanpuneet wrote:
In the Question above, though I got the right answer, I would like to understand what is "including" modifying here? In other words, is it used as a modifier? Yes/No.


Hi @pavanpuneet,

There are numerous products in order that they might use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a newly released item called the Vino-Lok that combines the elegance of a cork with the practicality of a screwcap.

A. in order that they might use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

B. that are used to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

C. so as they might use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

D. so that there could be used to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

E. such that they could use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

Now let’s look at the sentence with the correct answer choice B:

There are numerous products that are used to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a newly released item called the Vino-Lok that combines the elegance of a cork with the practicality of a screwcap.

The first thing to notice is that “including” does not follow the rules of the verb-ing modifiers. “Including” always refers to a noun entity and needless to say a logical noun entity. Generally, “including” is placed next to the noun entity it refers to. But that is not the case always.

This sentence is an example of that scenario. In this sentence, “including” is correctly modifying “numerous products”. It is jumping over the “that clause modifier” that modifies the same entity. Now “that clauses” are always placed next to the entity that they modify. So here, it is not possible to change the placement of “that clause”. Since “including” is pretty flexible, it has been separated from “numerous products” by adding a modifier in between. This usage is absolutely correct.

Take a look at the following correct official sentences:

1. A study by the Ocean Wildlife Campaign urged states to undertake a number of remedies to reverse a decline in the shark population, including establishing size limits for shark catches, closing state waters for shark fishing during pupping season, and requiring commercial fishers to have federal shark permits. (GMAT Prep - Choice D).

“including” is jumping over the modifier “to reverse… population” to modify “remedies”.

2. The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including three wooden spears that archaeologists believe to be about 400,000 years old. (GMAT Prep - Choice E)

“including” here is skipping the verb-ed modifier “found in Germany” to modify “tools” because that modifier cannot be placed elsewhere.

3. Bluegrass musician Bill Monroe, whose repertory, views on musical collaboration, and vocal style influenced generations of bluegrass artists, also inspired many musicians, including Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from his own. (GMAT Prep & Verbal 2nd Edition #107 – Choice B)

Here “including” is preceded by a comma. Still it does not modify the preceding clause but the preceding noun. SO here it is placed next to the entity it modifies.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha.


So does it mean that whenever ing-modifier is seen in a question, there could be a scenario that it is not following rules of ing-modifier , but can still be OK, because of context of sentence!!... If Yes then this can make people crazy :roll:
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Nov 2013, 09:35
ygdrasil24 wrote:
egmat wrote:
pavanpuneet wrote:
In the Question above, though I got the right answer, I would like to understand what is "including" modifying here? In other words, is it used as a modifier? Yes/No.


Hi @pavanpuneet,

There are numerous products in order that they might use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a newly released item called the Vino-Lok that combines the elegance of a cork with the practicality of a screwcap.

A. in order that they might use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

B. that are used to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

C. so as they might use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

D. so that there could be used to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

E. such that they could use to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a

Now let’s look at the sentence with the correct answer choice B:

There are numerous products that are used to seal a bottle of wine including a cork, a screwcap, and a newly released item called the Vino-Lok that combines the elegance of a cork with the practicality of a screwcap.

The first thing to notice is that “including” does not follow the rules of the verb-ing modifiers. “Including” always refers to a noun entity and needless to say a logical noun entity. Generally, “including” is placed next to the noun entity it refers to. But that is not the case always.

This sentence is an example of that scenario. In this sentence, “including” is correctly modifying “numerous products”. It is jumping over the “that clause modifier” that modifies the same entity. Now “that clauses” are always placed next to the entity that they modify. So here, it is not possible to change the placement of “that clause”. Since “including” is pretty flexible, it has been separated from “numerous products” by adding a modifier in between. This usage is absolutely correct.

Take a look at the following correct official sentences:

1. A study by the Ocean Wildlife Campaign urged states to undertake a number of remedies to reverse a decline in the shark population, including establishing size limits for shark catches, closing state waters for shark fishing during pupping season, and requiring commercial fishers to have federal shark permits. (GMAT Prep - Choice D).

“including” is jumping over the modifier “to reverse… population” to modify “remedies”.

2. The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including three wooden spears that archaeologists believe to be about 400,000 years old. (GMAT Prep - Choice E)

“including” here is skipping the verb-ed modifier “found in Germany” to modify “tools” because that modifier cannot be placed elsewhere.

3. Bluegrass musician Bill Monroe, whose repertory, views on musical collaboration, and vocal style influenced generations of bluegrass artists, also inspired many musicians, including Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from his own. (GMAT Prep & Verbal 2nd Edition #107 – Choice B)

Here “including” is preceded by a comma. Still it does not modify the preceding clause but the preceding noun. SO here it is placed next to the entity it modifies.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha.


So does it mean that whenever ing-modifier is seen in a question, there could be a scenario that it is not following rules of ing-modifier , but can still be OK, because of context of sentence!!... If Yes then this can make people crazy :roll:



Hi there,

As I said in my earlier post, "including" is an exception to the "comma + verb-ing modifiers". "Including" ALWAYS is a Noun Modifier. It does not matter if It is preceded by a comma and placed after a clause or not. "Including" is the exception to the rule of using "comma = verb-ing modifier".

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Feb 2017, 08:45
egmat wrote:
Image


Hi Arunima,

Thanks for all your appreciation. I really appreciate it. :-)

Now let’s come back to your doubt.

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

The modification of “which” is not the problem in this sentence. “which” in the original sentence modifies “more than 80 massive planets”. This is so because the information that follows the main clause – “most of them as large or larger than Jupiter” – is placed between two commas. This makes this information non-essential for the overall logical meaning of the sentence.

Notice that when we remove this information form the sentence, we also get rid of both the commas, in the beginning and at the end of the non-essential phrase.

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

In this case, “which” correctly refers to immediate preceding noun as mentioned above. This sentence is incorrect because the non-essential information is a mix of two idioms which is grammatically incorrect. We cannot write a combination of two idioms.

The correct answer choice corrects that error. Once again notice that both the commas belong to the information that comes between “more than 80 massive planets” and “circling”. The comma before the non-essential phrase is not the part of the main clause that will form “comma + circling”. This is will be a wrong modifier as it will modify the preceding clause. But the comma belong to the phrase that comes in between the main clause and “circling”. This is the reason why the correct answer choice is correct.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


egmat

Hi Shraddha,

This nonessential part concept is so important. Thank you for this explanation. I have somehow missed this very essential point.
I read in VLP about Noun Modifiers modifying slightly faraway noun, but this above solution takes that concept to another level.

Could you please clarify my following understanding:

1. For Noun Modifiers in the form of Which, Who, That, etc, it will modify the Head Noun. If say the prepositional phrase cannot be placed to any other place in the sentence, then 'That', which is say placed after the prepositional phrase, yet That will modify the Head Noun, because the prepositional phrase cannot be placed any other place.

2. As told by you in this above thread, I will proceed to ignore both the commas, if the sentence warrants. So, in above case, 'Which...' would have been correct had the earlier 'as large as' been correct? So there, similar to Noun Modifier Rule, Which will modify Planets.
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2017, 10:17
Hi Payal
I have a query in this.

<<Furthermore, notice the use of modifier - “circling…” . This modifier modifies the noun entity that precedes it – “more than 80 massive planets”. As we discussed in the sentence structure discussion for choice A, this modifier does not modify the immediately preceding noun "Jupiter". This is a verb-ing modifier that is not separated from the preceding clause by a comma and hence modifies the preceding noun entity. >>

I do not understand this. Answer choice C is "most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling". Isn't this verbing modifier "circling" seperated by a comma? And if verb-ing modifier is with comma- after clause, it modifies the clause--> so it modifies most of them ie the stars?
Please explain.
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2017, 13:31
GmatBawse wrote:
Hi Payal
I have a query in this.

<<Furthermore, notice the use of modifier - “circling…” . This modifier modifies the noun entity that precedes it – “more than 80 massive planets”. As we discussed in the sentence structure discussion for choice A, this modifier does not modify the immediately preceding noun "Jupiter". This is a verb-ing modifier that is not separated from the preceding clause by a comma and hence modifies the preceding noun entity. >>

I do not understand this. Answer choice C is "most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling". Isn't this verbing modifier "circling" seperated by a comma? And if verb-ing modifier is with comma- after clause, it modifies the clause--> so it modifies most of them ie the stars?
Please explain.



Hello GmatBawse,

Thank you for the query. :-)

Let's take a look at the sentence with the correct answer choice C:

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling other stars.

Take a look at the modifier most of them at least as large as Jupiter. This noun modifier modifies the preceding noun entity more than 80 massive planets. If you pay close attention to the sentence, you will realize that this modifier is placed between two commas. If we need to remove this modifier from the sentence then we will have to remove the commas that appear before and after the said modifier.

So the comma before circling does NOT belong to circling. It belongs to the modifier most of them at least as large as Jupiter. Hence, the verb-ing modifier circling is a noun modifier and correctly modifies a slightly far away noun more than 80 massive planets.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2017, 13:36
ravi19012015 wrote:
Hi Shraddha,

This nonessential part concept is so important. Thank you for this explanation. I have somehow missed this very essential point.
I read in VLP about Noun Modifiers modifying slightly faraway noun, but this above solution takes that concept to another level.

Could you please clarify my following understanding:

1. For Noun Modifiers in the form of Which, Who, That, etc, it will modify the Head Noun. If say the prepositional phrase cannot be placed to any other place in the sentence, then 'That', which is say placed after the prepositional phrase, yet That will modify the Head Noun, because the prepositional phrase cannot be placed any other place.

2. As told by you in this above thread, I will proceed to ignore both the commas, if the sentence warrants. So, in above case, 'Which...' would have been correct had the earlier 'as large as' been correct? So there, similar to Noun Modifier Rule, Which will modify Planets.



Hello ravi19012015,


Thank you for your query. :-)


1. Yes, your understanding is correct.


2. Yes for sure. The original sentence is incorrect not because which refers to the preceding noun Jupiter. The original sentence is incorrect because if the incorrect idiom used in the modifier most of them as large or larger than Jupiter.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jun 2018, 03:42
Hey egmat thanks for the article
Is there any article by egmat on "modifier encapsulated in a comma pair"?
Re: VERB-ING MODIFIERS PART 2 In our first article on verb-ing &nbs [#permalink] 15 Jun 2018, 03:42

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