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Okay, my turn to bug you. I think this one might be a bit more complicated than the average "which school" thread, so I hope it doesn't bore you.
I have two admits - one from Yale with a 25% scholarship graduating in 2011 and one for Kellogg's one-year (1Y) program that starts in late June and ends in June 2010.
FYI, I applied to the 1Y program to minimize cost and time, the time issue mostly being that my girlfriend of 5 years cannot move with me and will stay in Boston. I have an undergrad business degree, so I meet the requirements for the 1Y program.
Background info: I have worked at one company for my entire career, a tiny biotech company where I have essentially been in a management rotation program in that I've had a lot of different, but significant, responsibilities. My post-MBA goal is to join a big biotech company (think Genzyme, Genentech, etc.) or something else in the drug development field working in general management, strategic planning and/or corporate development (consulting and VC are also of interest, yet less feasible). Long-term I would like to work at small biotech companies, possibly starting my own with technologies developed by my scientist friends.
Here are the pros and cons I have identified so far:
YALE
Pros:
- Cachet with laymen (Yale)
- Cool curriculum
- Small class size
- Enter workforce later (2011)
- Good opportunities in social enterprise/non-profit/development, which my alternate career of interest
- Generally a simpler, more convenient "transition" from my current situation
- Hanging out at ninkorn's swank apartment
Cons:
- Almost non-existent biotech/pharma recruiting (not sure if this is due to a lack of student interest)
- Much less respected MBA program (ugly duckling of Yale University)
- 2 years of trying to maintain a long-distance relationship
- Small alumni network
- Let's face it: New Haven (bad city, but geographically convenient)
KELLOGG
Pros:
- Highly respected/ranked overall
- Very strong biotech/pharma program
- Almost 100% electives
- Tight-knit 1Y class within a big overall alumni network
- Slightly less expensive (assuming no non-debt financial aid received from Kellogg)
- Best class I attended during all B school visits
- Only 1 year of trying to maintain a long-distance relationship
Cons:
- Less time to enjoy the overall B school experience
- Enter workforce earlier (2010)
- Less time to gain leadership positions in clubs
- Surrounded only by 1Y consultants going back to M/B/B? (not sure)
- Looked upon less favorably by recruiters than 2Y program? (not sure)
- No internship opportunity
- Have to start earlier (June vs. September)
- Strong competition in biotech/pharma recruiting
What say you? Thanks!
I have two admits - one from Yale with a 25% scholarship graduating in 2011 and one for Kellogg's one-year (1Y) program that starts in late June and ends in June 2010.
FYI, I applied to the 1Y program to minimize cost and time, the time issue mostly being that my girlfriend of 5 years cannot move with me and will stay in Boston. I have an undergrad business degree, so I meet the requirements for the 1Y program.
Background info: I have worked at one company for my entire career, a tiny biotech company where I have essentially been in a management rotation program in that I've had a lot of different, but significant, responsibilities. My post-MBA goal is to join a big biotech company (think Genzyme, Genentech, etc.) or something else in the drug development field working in general management, strategic planning and/or corporate development (consulting and VC are also of interest, yet less feasible). Long-term I would like to work at small biotech companies, possibly starting my own with technologies developed by my scientist friends.
Here are the pros and cons I have identified so far:
YALE
Pros:
- Cachet with laymen (Yale)
- Cool curriculum
- Small class size
- Enter workforce later (2011)
- Good opportunities in social enterprise/non-profit/development, which my alternate career of interest
- Generally a simpler, more convenient "transition" from my current situation
- Hanging out at ninkorn's swank apartment
Cons:
- Almost non-existent biotech/pharma recruiting (not sure if this is due to a lack of student interest)
- Much less respected MBA program (ugly duckling of Yale University)
- 2 years of trying to maintain a long-distance relationship
- Small alumni network
- Let's face it: New Haven (bad city, but geographically convenient)
KELLOGG
Pros:
- Highly respected/ranked overall
- Very strong biotech/pharma program
- Almost 100% electives
- Tight-knit 1Y class within a big overall alumni network
- Slightly less expensive (assuming no non-debt financial aid received from Kellogg)
- Best class I attended during all B school visits
- Only 1 year of trying to maintain a long-distance relationship
Cons:
- Less time to enjoy the overall B school experience
- Enter workforce earlier (2010)
- Less time to gain leadership positions in clubs
- Surrounded only by 1Y consultants going back to M/B/B? (not sure)
- Looked upon less favorably by recruiters than 2Y program? (not sure)
- No internship opportunity
- Have to start earlier (June vs. September)
- Strong competition in biotech/pharma recruiting
What say you? Thanks!
I'm biased but IMO Kellogg > Yale
Explanations for votes appreciated, to help me in my thought process (I know yours already Jerz)!
Jerz
I agree. RCA is not a career switcher and he is NYU Stern undergrad. NYU Stern undergrads don't need 2 year MBA program for success.
Also, he wants to stay in bio-tech, which Kellogg might be better for....
In my opinion, RCA will be in similar situation looking for pharma jobs in Evanston in 2010 or in New Haven in 2011.
Posts: 348
This thread should just be renamed 'The nink vs Jerz cagematch'
rca215
Since I'm obviously biased as well - I'll try to address these Cons hehe. 1) There are a decent amount of 1Ys that are M/B/B, but you'd be surprised by the diversity within the 1Y class, 2) 1Y is definitely not at a disadvantage for recruiting to the 2Y program, 3) People have been getting biotech/pharma jobs and internships this year like whoa. I have yet to meet someone who sought out biotech/pharma and did not get an offer. It has by far, been the most successful job path in this economy at Kellogg (both for interns and full time)
bostonsparky
But I am agreeing with him....
Steel
I was hoping someone with more Kellogg insight would address those uncertainties, so thanks for that.
Posts: 348
nink
Indeed, someone actually advising someone based on what is best for the advisee rather than shamelessly promoting their own school. That would never fly on BW.
But since someone should take the Yale side (I'm definitely not an expert on the 2 schools) , something I would definitely consider would be the Yale brand vs the Kellogg brand in New England (where I assume you want to keep working after Bschool rca, correct me if Im wrong). I would think Yale has a slight edge in that area vs Kellogg. Not even so much amongst fellow MBAs but if you stay in biotech you'll be working alongside a lot of scientists/non business people who don't have the USNews/BW rankings memorized by heart. Hopefully they will at least know that Northwestern isn't that other team in the Beanpot besides Harvard/BC/BU.
bostonsparky
This is definitely something that I have considered, but in general I just think it's less regional (well, some Northeastern-related confusion is bound to happen
), and more related to people who know B schools and people who don't. Posts: 348
And for the Kellogg side, I noticed you cited Yale's opportunities in social enterprise/non-profit/development. Kellogg is also very strong in that area as well. SEEK Program, Huge/diverse Net Impact chapter, Kellogg Corps, cool environment-related clubs if you're into that.
I think you would have much more fun at the Yale 2 year. Personally, if I had to choose between two great programs, the 2 year thing would sway me. If it were Kellogg 2 year thats a different story.
_________________
_________________
"George is getting upset!"
Yale is a fantastic program, but I'm sorry. It has to be Kellogg (and not just because it is where I will be going).
This is an MBA and the program at Kellogg is constantly recognized as one of the best in the world. Yale is fantastic, but as far as MBA's goes, its a step behind Kellogg. If this was a JD or almost any other degree, I would definitely say go with Yale.
This is an MBA and the program at Kellogg is constantly recognized as one of the best in the world. Yale is fantastic, but as far as MBA's goes, its a step behind Kellogg. If this was a JD or almost any other degree, I would definitely say go with Yale.
I'm not going to vote for one or the other, I'll just mention a few points:
1. New Haven is within driving distance to Boston (under 3 hrs). You might be at Yale for longer, but you'll be able to see the ol' lady a lot more often. You could easily spend every other weekend together if you wanted to.
2. School ranking means a lot less in biotech/pharma than it does in finance or consulting. I had a friend who finished up at Yale a couple years ago and had no problem getting interviews with companies. Most pharma/biotech recruiters would go like this
if you asked them to name an M7 school. In fact, my friend said the Yale's Ivy League name actually pulls a lot of weight. (going back to bostonsparky's comments)
3. The lack of an internship is a real kicker. Lets say you want to stay in pharma/biotech. If you went to Yale you could do an internship in <insert cool industry>, then go back to biotech. In fact a Tuck alumni suggested I do just that. "Expand your horizons" and all that jazz. You could do a summer internship in non-profit for example.
4. In terms of competition for biotech jobs, you already have a huge advantage there. You've got first-hand experience in a start-up doing business development. How many people are in that situation? I would guess VERY few. That plays both ways though. It means at Kellogg you don't really have to worry about your competition. However, at Yale, it also means you won't have to worry about the lack of on-campus recruiting. It's not like you came from a forestry background and now you want to move into health care.
RF
1. New Haven is within driving distance to Boston (under 3 hrs). You might be at Yale for longer, but you'll be able to see the ol' lady a lot more often. You could easily spend every other weekend together if you wanted to.
2. School ranking means a lot less in biotech/pharma than it does in finance or consulting. I had a friend who finished up at Yale a couple years ago and had no problem getting interviews with companies. Most pharma/biotech recruiters would go like this
if you asked them to name an M7 school. In fact, my friend said the Yale's Ivy League name actually pulls a lot of weight. (going back to bostonsparky's comments)3. The lack of an internship is a real kicker. Lets say you want to stay in pharma/biotech. If you went to Yale you could do an internship in <insert cool industry>, then go back to biotech. In fact a Tuck alumni suggested I do just that. "Expand your horizons" and all that jazz. You could do a summer internship in non-profit for example.
4. In terms of competition for biotech jobs, you already have a huge advantage there. You've got first-hand experience in a start-up doing business development. How many people are in that situation? I would guess VERY few. That plays both ways though. It means at Kellogg you don't really have to worry about your competition. However, at Yale, it also means you won't have to worry about the lack of on-campus recruiting. It's not like you came from a forestry background and now you want to move into health care.
RF
refurb
Maybe, maybe not....
Baxter, Genzyme, Genentech, Johnson & Johnson, B&D, Merck, Abbott, Amgen, Boston Scientific, Eli Lilly, Novartis, and Pfizer (among other smaller firms) all recruited on-campus for interns and full-time this year at Kellogg. I guarantee all the recruiters from those firms know the value of a Kellogg (otherwise they wouldn't come to Kellogg year in year out).
Steel
I'm not saying that the companies don't know who the good schools are, they do, but trust me, they don't think "Well, Kellogg is consistently ranked in the top 10, while Yale has never broken into the top 10, so lets just shred the Yale resumes."
I talked with two people, one at in marketing at big pharma company and one in business development at mid-size biotech and both told me there would be no difference between attending Duke or Tuck. That's not something rankings alone would suggest.
Take a look where Pfizer recruits their MBAs from:
Quote:
Where a pharma/biotech company recruits from often has more to do with alumni contacts than any perceived difference in ranking. That's why Pfizer recruits at UMinn and Indiana (Pfizer had a big mid-west presence at one time). Who knows why they recruit at Penn State, probably some alumni offered to recruit there.
However, it often varies within business function too. Finance and marketing people will often be more sensitive to rankings than say supply chain or business development would be.
All I'm saying is that it's not like IB or consulting. You don't see the drastic cutoff in recruiting based on rank. It's not "M7 or bust".
RF
You are in a jam. If it were the Kellogg 2 year program, it would be an easier choice (at least for me...largely because I don't really know what your relationship is like). If you are positive you'll end up in biotech, I'd say go to Kellogg, but if you want the option to explore other fields, Yale makes sense (this is coming from a guy who's torn between Kellogg and Chicago). The internship is incredibly valuable and would help to mitigate some potential career path concerns (if they exist). Moreover, the job markets in 2011 will undoubtedly be better, so recruiting may be beneficial.
Sorry if this isn't compare and contrast the two programs - but I think a two year program will be a bit more of a bona fide "MBA experience" and will allow you to create tighter connections with your class (although I'd tip my hat to Kellogg students over Yale).
I was in a long distance relationship for quite some time - and the distance between you two if you were at Yale would be manageable (albeit not extraordinarily pleasant).
It's tough, in the end I'd probably head off to Yale - but I'd put a lot of weight into where I get the best vibe (admit weekend).
Good luck!
Sorry if this isn't compare and contrast the two programs - but I think a two year program will be a bit more of a bona fide "MBA experience" and will allow you to create tighter connections with your class (although I'd tip my hat to Kellogg students over Yale).
I was in a long distance relationship for quite some time - and the distance between you two if you were at Yale would be manageable (albeit not extraordinarily pleasant).
It's tough, in the end I'd probably head off to Yale - but I'd put a lot of weight into where I get the best vibe (admit weekend).
Good luck!
As someone who just landed a Biotech Business Development job, I can say that Biz Dev is far and away the hardest function to get into. If there was a rankings sensitivity it would be BD, finance, Marketing and then supply chain management. And I just interviewed with 9 different companies and landed one pharma BD job, one biotech BD job, 2 pharma marketing jobs, and a life sciences VC job.
I recently attended an event for all incoming interns for the biotech business development positions. There were 5 kelloggs, 3 whartons, 2 columbias, and moi, the lonely UNC guy, but this company did not recruit on campus and I networked to get the position. That being said, I would choose Kellogg over Yale in your case. I have been to several healthcare type intern invitationals(on site second round interviews) and met many kelloggs but no Yalies BUT, I dont know anything about the 1 year program and if you have access to the same recruiters, resources, and "general transformational experience" that the 2 year MBA provides.
I recently attended an event for all incoming interns for the biotech business development positions. There were 5 kelloggs, 3 whartons, 2 columbias, and moi, the lonely UNC guy, but this company did not recruit on campus and I networked to get the position. That being said, I would choose Kellogg over Yale in your case. I have been to several healthcare type intern invitationals(on site second round interviews) and met many kelloggs but no Yalies BUT, I dont know anything about the 1 year program and if you have access to the same recruiters, resources, and "general transformational experience" that the 2 year MBA provides.
mbahunter
Interesting! I hadn't heard about the rankings sensitivity of BD, but I have heard they have a high background sensitivity. In other words, its not the kind of job you often just walk into with having some relevant pre-MBA job experience.
RF
Yeah for the job I ended up accepting one of the interview questions was something like "why should we hire you over everyone else?" I started in on my great science background, MS in biotech etc etc and they said, thats nice, but everyone else we are interviewing has an advanced science degree and research experience too...I was like ohhh, well in that case how about my leadership experience....I guess it worked cuz I got the job.
Genentech on the other hand was like first question, so you don't have any real actual business experience?? and the interview tanked from there. They would prefer someone who had BD experience at say a chemical company over me who actually developed one of their blockbuster drugs...go figure!
Point is, it varies wildly from company to company and frankly from interviewer to interviewer. There will be a bunch of people on campus to interview, try as hard as you can to interview with the person that likes you most...I landed two jobs over people that I felt were better suited simply b/c I had better interview rapport and knew the person liked my science background and could tell the other interviewer didnt care for it as much.
Genentech on the other hand was like first question, so you don't have any real actual business experience?? and the interview tanked from there. They would prefer someone who had BD experience at say a chemical company over me who actually developed one of their blockbuster drugs...go figure!
Point is, it varies wildly from company to company and frankly from interviewer to interviewer. There will be a bunch of people on campus to interview, try as hard as you can to interview with the person that likes you most...I landed two jobs over people that I felt were better suited simply b/c I had better interview rapport and knew the person liked my science background and could tell the other interviewer didnt care for it as much.
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