Part-Time Stern Vs. Full Time Schools

Question

I have a question that has been stressing me a lot. The basic question is: at what point does a Stern part-time MBA outrank a full-time MBA, in terms of being a better option. For example, I do believe that going below the top 20 full-time b-schools I will be better off with Stern part-time (living in NY that is). Now, I know there are a lot of factors in this question, but I am wondering if everyone could review the ones that I lay out and let me know of their perspective. Since this forum has a lot of knowledgeable members who are also very encouraging (which is rare to find in business school) 8-)

. Also, what is the general opinion on this matter?

My biggest fear is making the wrong decision and regretting it for the rest of my life. I appreciate everyone’s time reading this and I hope it wasn’t too boring and repetitive.

. Also, what is the general opinion on this matter? My major predicament is, if it’s worth it for me to pursue applying for a full-time MBA where my chances are slim in getting into top ten schools, and still not guaranteed for the top 15. So do I draw the line and say, if I don’t think I can get into say Cornell/Duke, then I might as well do Stern Part-time where I have a good chance of getting in. I would prefer not to waste a year applying, find out I don’t get into the schools that I like, and then decide to apply for Stern part-time the next semester. Or does Full-Time MBA always trump anything part-time. I mean there has to be a point at the full-time rankings where the #1 part-time school outranks it. Below is a list of factors that I am taking into account for this decision: 1) The first question would be, what schools am I considering applying to: Target Schools Preferred: NYU Columbia Safeties or better word Mid-Range: Cornell Duke What other safeties do I add? Ross, CMU, University of Virginia Stretch (for fun) MIT Northwestern 2) Credentials: The next question is why I think I can’t get into my preferred or top mid-range schools. Well here is my bio: I am 25 years old (American-born/Indian Nationality), and been working at a large financial services firm/IB (i.e. Morgan Stanley, Citi, JP Morgan, Merrill) for 3 years as a Business Systems Analyst in technology division. After working for 2 years I was promoted to associate. I have coordinated a cross-functional team for a system conversion with a market value of $14 billion. I was then asked to join a top-notch global project, a huge initiative by the CIO of my division, which will greatly improve investment systems. My GMAT score is a 700, but the first time I took it I got a 590. I have seen from many places that only your higher score counts. My GPA is a low 2.9, but for a degree in Computer Science from Polytechnic University (Brooklyn, NY). I have also heard that schools take into account the difficulty of your school and major when looking at GPAs. So obviously, a CS degree from a difficult engineering school weighs more than a liberal arts degree from a general school. However, I believe due to my competitive demographic (Indian), location (NY) and a tough 2009 admissions year; I don’t have a great chance. The next list of factors, are general questions I need to ask when considering full-time versus part-time. 3) Career Placement/Transition This is probably the biggest advantage of a full-time MBA. The ability to take an internship from a large company and then get a full-time position. Now, I am doing technology work in a big financial services firm. So If I do want to pursue a career transition, it will greatly beneficial to pursue full-time. However, I am not sure if I would like to change my career or not. I prefer to start school and see how I like finance and then make my decision. Also, I think the full-time advantage (correct me if I’m wrong) is only worth wile for students who get that big I-banking, sales trading or consulting job. However, I am not sure if I will even be able to score that, (I think I would only prefer sales/trading). So, what happens to the rest of the students, with the non top-notch jobs? Do those jobs/companies really require the full-time placement? Or for those jobs, can you do a mild-transition from a top part-time program. 4) Financials: Now my company will only sponsor a very small amount, so it’s not like it’s a free ride for me. However, obviously, I will get to keep my job and that salary will be very helpful. My salary going in will be much higher than the average pre-MBA salary (this year it’s 80K, my 2009 when I would start a full-time MBA it should be like 88K), and in fact, just based on base salary, my salary should be the same in 2 years as the average starting salary of a top 15 school. Bonuses will not be as close, (only around 15-25K). This is obviously assuming my rate goes up as has done in the past. However, being in technology, my salary is expected to top off at a certain point. While with financial roles, salaries are expected to grow a lot faster, and to a much higher amount. The other financial conditions aren’t a major concern for me; at this point I don’t have a mortgage or huge bills to pay. But I am planning on getting married within 1-2 years, and don’t know If I should risk giving up such a good job. I have to consider what type of job I will get graduating from a mid-range school. 5) Experience: The experience of a full-time MBA is the one factor that cannot be replaced by part-time. Students at part-time, rush to their classes after work, and then rush home after class. (at least that’s what I have heard about Stern’s part-time) They go to some networking events, but miss most of the seminars and speeches that are during the day. However, as a full-time student, your entire day is dedicated to school. You also get to spend a lot more time with your peers and build stronger networks. This is a once in a life-time experience, after that its work for the rest of your life :cry:

. However, are those two years (noting that it might be from a non top school ) worth more than giving up your salary, leaving the girlfriend, friends, and family? 6) Location I am a complete New Yorker, and would love to stay here. I don’t mind going away to school for 2 years, but will come back to work here anyway. So being that is it safer to go to a Stern part-time which is in the heart of NY or take my chances in a different state, come back and get a job in NY. 7) Timing If I pursue full-time, I would not start until the September 2009 semester. If I go for part-time I want to start September 2008 (applications are due may 15). So from both routes, I should finish by 2011, maybe a little bit later for part-time. However, if I don’t get into a decent full-time school, I will have to apply to stern part-time, for the semester after (Jan 2010) and take at least 3 years from that point. The options boil down to: 1) Just go ahead and apply to full-time. a. Best case I get into NYU/Columbia full-time, in which there is no question of part versus full, and I would probably curse myself for even wasting all this time worrying about what I should have done. b. Or I get into schools like Cornell/Duke/Ross, and depending on the schools I have to make a decision at that point if I still want to do full-time. I mean in a year from now, I will have a better perspective of: do I want to change careers, how the schools I got into are with those careers, can I take 2 years off, etc. i. But, if I decide to do part-time then, does it look bad to Stern that I already applied to the full-time program and am now applying to part-time? I also wasted a year! 2) Go ahead and apply part-time, probably get in, see if I like Finance, and if I do, try to shift careers during my MBA. My biggest fear is making the wrong decision and regretting it for the rest of my life. I appreciate everyone’s time reading this and I hope it wasn’t too boring and repetitive.

sam77sam7 · Answer

Well, I admit I didn't read all the details, but from what I did see - 700 GMAT, Good job w. high salary in finance, engineering degree, I think you should shoot for the moon. If you don't get it, maybe wait a year and try and bolster your candidacy a little more.

My point is, if you truly want to go to a top school, make it happen and don't settle until you get in. Sounds cliche, but it's true.

Anyway, perhaps people with more MBA experience than myself can weigh in.

kidderek · Answer

Hey prtfullconfused,

I think you and I are in the same boat although, I'm not 25. I think we may even be working for the same firm. Anyway, just to clear a few things up:

1) There are NO safety schools this year, and probably next year as well. Johnson, Fuqua, and Darden may have been considered safeties in the past, but no more, not with the recent boom in applications. The only schools you can consider to be safety schools would fall outside of the famed "elite" & "ultra elite."

Stern & CBS have relatively equal acceptance rates, with CBS being slightly higher. Again, expect those numbers to be halved with this year's rise in applications.

2) I think you fall in to the so-called "dreaded Indian IT" pool. You're gpa is low (not low enough to keep you out of the top schools, but low enough that you're going to need to do something to make up for it, such as higher gmat, exceptional experience). You're gmat, dare I say, is low for your demographic or at best par. Don't get me wrong, my gmat is nothing to boast about, but Indian IT + 700 = slightly below avg.

3) I think you over-estimate the PT program. Just take a look at the amount of "air time" PTimers get here on the gmatclub compared with FTimers. I think it is similar in school. You do get the same professors, same classes and same material, but the crux of the MBA is the experience -- interaction w/other MBAs, constant networking, interviewing etc. Don't be fooled into believing that the PT MBA is remotely equivalent to the FT MBA.

I think Dave Barry once wrote something to the effect of, "Whenever an advertiser spends a ton of money proclaiming something, the opposite is true." For example, Oldsmobile advertises that it's not a car for old people. Yet who buys Oldsmobile's? Old people. Coke and Pepsi spend billions convincing the public that one is superior to the other. Yet, when the waiter asks you, "We don't have Coke, is Pepsi okay?" You always say "Sure."

So, when the adcom says that the PT and the FT MBA students receive the same exact piece of paper, just take it with a grain of salt. Know what you're getting into.

4) As for career placement, from what I can gather, the office of career development is pretty useless. Just do a google search for PT MBA career switcher, and you'll see pages upon pages of PTimers ranting on about how they pay the same dollar amount as a FTimer, yet get treated as second class citizens. Do I feel sorry for them? Sure. But you should know what you're getting into, which is you will be shut out of all recruiting events.

5) Your timing -- You're young, not a spring chicken, but young enough to wait a year maybe even two. So if you want to apply full time first, then apply part time, I think there's plenty of time for you. Just don't wait until you're 29/30.

6) I think you need to figure out why you want an MBA. Then you can proceed with whether a PT MBA is right for you.

7) As for making a wrong mistake and regretting it for the rest of your life, do you want to know what's worse? Being wishy-washy and never committing to anything. Make a choice and stick with it. You can change your mind later (years later that is), but you don't want your resume to be a list of fragmented half-assed attempts.

Good luck.

prtfullconfused · Answer

Gives me more incentive to apply part-time.

I have heard that the school has been really trying in the last two years because of all the student complaints. For example, the career center task force, is dedicated to help part-time students and has actually enabled some to participate with full-time recruitment. https://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~ptlf/CSTF/AboutCSTF.html

solaris1 · Answer

Do bear in mind that the career services offered to Langone students through the CCWP are not exclusive to part-time MBA students. All NYU alumni (if I understand this correctly) have access to the CCWP.

Furthemore, NYU doesn't disclose any recruiting statistics related to its Langone grads and by its own admission claims that the full-time program is more suited to career changers.

Moreover, have you looked into how long it would take you to complete the program? For instance, a typical weekend only schedule would last 2.5 years, cost about 60,000$ and require you to sign away most of your weekends during that period. That's a pretty intense schedule to keep - especially if as you say you're looking to get married within the next year or two. It's obviously an ever bigger commitment when you're looking to make the move from Systems (back-office) to S&T (front-office) since you'd have to put in a lot of extra effort into networking and recruiting etc.

Figure out why you want an MBA. If it's truly to switch careers, then there's no point in trying to "game the system" and applying to NYU Langone instead of Stern full-time because it's easier to get in. The admissions committee will figure this out - the fact that you like New York and want to stay here isn't an entirely convincing argument on its own.

Work on getting some leadership experience, perhaps take some classes to make up for your GPA, and apply to a full-time program of your liking.
 
And no offense, but unless you have some stellar extracurricular experience you haven't disclosed, you're severely underestimating how selective Darden, Cornell and Duke have become.

arctic · Answer

I think it is what you make of it. People argue the connections and network you build during the full-time MBA is priceless, but what limits you from doing that at a part-time program? Not to mention that you will be attending classes with people working at companies and roles you may one day want to transition into; Part-time students at a Stern, Kellog, or a Booth represent most of the companies that full-time students aspire to work at.

I do believe that at a certain point the part-time MBA trumps the full-time program, but where that occurs is a mystery. I would have to guess outside of the top 20. Ask yourself this: Part-time MBA from Kellogg or Booth; identical curriculums as full-time programs and top 5 schools that grant you identical degrees, less internship and recruiting if your employer doesn't allow you to participate... OR full-time Ross? if yes, how about full-time Washington U...etc.

To me, brand name is more valuable than an internship and networking can be done at both. It is what you make of it. Those who sit back and think their degree will do all the talking may have a tough time in the part-time program.

Part-Time Stern Vs. Full Time Schools

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