Chicago Booth or IIM B/C

Question

I have an admit from Chicago Booth and also a good chance of getting an admit in an IIM in India.
The cost at Booth is close to US$ 170K for the program. At an IIM it will be close to US$ 50K.
Looking for a global career preferably; but concerned about the high cost and the risks associated with a huge loan.
Will be grateful if you can share your thoughtful suggestions/ views.
Thanks in advance.

AbeinOhio · Answer

First off - congratulations on the admission to Booth and for the likely admission to IIM.

My 2 cents is that Booth will take you places IIM can't...

170k is alot of money and its a big risk, but no risk, no reward or in this case, less risk, less reward may be more appropo.

What may help you decide is what your job goals are after B-school and which place better aligns to your final desired outcome.

sanjuro9 · Answer

unless you are specifically targeting a post MBA career in India, please do NOT consider IIMs.

you need to look at what is the primary motivation behind seeking an MBA. yes, you need that job, that high paying C-suite career, but, first and foremost you need EDUCATION. education does not equate to reading few books and passing few exams. if that were the case, you can do so very diligently in an online curriculum.

your MBA education means you need to interact with your classmates, your professors, collaborate outside the classroom and learn from the experience. and very few schools would match the quality of education and experience at Booth.

don't worry about the risk. its every bit worth taking. rather worry about the breakdown of financing your education. what percentage of it you would like in debt, what part of it savings and family funds.

Remember, your MBA is not a ticket punching machine. it is an intensive, immersive educational experience.

manohar · Answer

Thanks sanjuro9 and AbeinOhio for sharing your thoughts.
Sure, I want an education. As a middle class Indian, I feel some what concerned about carrying the burden of a huge loan, by Indian standards, that might take 5 to 6 years to repay, that too only if I get a good job that pays in US$ or equivalent!

sanjuro9 · Answer

while i can't be in your shoes, born in south-east asia, i can probably understand your situation. i don't know what industry and function you wish to go into after mba, but i am sure 10 years from now, looking back at your life, you will say Chicago was the best decision you have ever made or will make.

i haven't applied to chicago, may apply next year. not sure yet. but, if there was such an option, i will pay you $100,000 right now to take your place instead in the class of 2014 and i wouldn't even consider the IIM offer even if they offered me a full ride scholarship. (unless, of course, my career aspirations were based solely in India)

good luck.

aviroop · Answer

Close your eyes and go to Booth. There is no comparison between the two schools. IIM-A is the only school that might come relatively close to Booth in terms of placement in BBB or the big consulting firms but then the positions are much junior in IIM.

buddy4all · Answer

You are probably targeting executive MBA program from IIM A. You are a middle class man and so are all the Top 20 MBA Indian aspirants./graduates. To point you, i know a number of IIM graduates who get their 2nd MBA/Masters from US/UK. Having said that if you see yourself working in India then IIM A is the best option in terms of ROI.

manohar · Answer

@aviroop: 
I gather that you yourself have given up UCLA MBA admit, that too with fellowship. I am sure you understand my predicament. Given that you chose HKUST over UCLA, why do you say, "Close your eyes and join Booth"? Can you give your reasoning, please. This could help me gain greater clarity.
By the way, I too have some what similar profile. 4 years big4 advisory experience at matriculation. Thinking of a career in Infrastructure funds/ consulting, post-MBA.
I don't think there is really much of a difference between IIMs A, B & C in so far as opportunities in MBB or BBB companies are concerned.

@buddy4all: I am not targeting executive MBA. I am targeting the regular 2-year PGP. I am aware that several people have done their 2nd MBA at Wharton, Chicago, LBS, INSEAD etc. after PGP from IIMs. I am aspiring for a global career and don't have a compulsion to return to India immediately after MBA.

bsd_lover · Answer

Manohar - from my experiences ( have a few friends from IIM and I also went to booth on exchange) - IIM does place some people in international roles (at Senior Analyst levels) to primarily London / Singapore and Hong Kong. However, these people tend to be the top 5% of the class, or people who have come to IIM with overseas experiences already. The competition for overseas placements is incredibly tough (even tougher due to the crisis). Hence going to IIM means almost certainly working in India.

So, you will have to consider carefully what is more important to you. A global career with a large debt or a regional career with a small debt. Further, even going to Booth doesn't guarantee a job in the US these days. Several consulting firms don't hire folks who are not pre-authorised to work in the US already. The Indians who couldn't find jobs in US had to seek out alternatives such as Middle East or Asia (and back to India in some extreme cases).

As others have mentioned previously, you should absolutely consider factors such as quality of education, experiences of your student body into your decision. Chicago is an extremely rigorous school with outstanding quality of teaching but its a more holistic MBA experience. IIM seems to be absolutely all about studies and not much else. Plus the student body is extremely young with nearly zero experiences.

gijoedude · Answer

.

This is true. Most of the positions out of IIM are not for the post-MBA associate level positions you would get by going to an American MBA. But once you get the position you don't need a 2nd MBA to move to the post-MBA position. IE, you will start as an investment banking analyst and will directly go to associate, VP, MD etc without needing a new MBA. But this is because a lot of students don't have relevant or no work experience prior to their MBAs. I am sure if you worked in McKinsey before MBA, get an MBA from IIM A/B/C you would get a post-MBA position at a consulting firm.

Going to IIM B/C does not exclude you from a global career and going to Booth does not guarantee a global career. At the end of the day it's going to come down to what you have done. Yes the Booth name is widely recognized, but if you have crappy post-MBA work experience, the name won't do anything for your prospects. If you go to IIMs, get a job at an awesome firm and are a superstar there, no-one is going to stop you dream of having a global career just because your MBA is from IIM.

This is probably true. I have been told first hand that IIM students are quite 'nerdy'.

Having said all this, at the end of the day, if I were you, I would take Chicago Booth. Global name, international student body and great career prospects. Especially given the fact that you have 4 years of experience. If you were fresher then it might have been different. But with Big 4 experience, Booth is the way to go.And if you want you can always do an MBA at Booth and go work at a consulting firm's India office.

I personally wouldn't worry about the debt. You work in consulting/banking for a year or two and use the massive signing/year end bonuses to pay off debt.

manohar · Answer

Thanks @gijoedude and bsd_lover.

You have given me a lot of food for thought.
 I appreciate the fact that you have spent time and effort and shared your advice and insights.
 I will mull over your your advice and insights.Thanks once again.

albertgates · Answer

This is a no brainer to me. Booth will take you places far beyond what IIM can do for you. Invest in yourself!

manohar · Answer

Thanks albertgates.

I am not sure whether you are from India! I really don't think the choice is a no brainer.
 
I did try and gauge the outcomes if I go to Booth or to one of the IIMs.

Booth : Total cost US$170K. Likely Pay on graduation: $120K including year end bonus, before tax. Most probably it will take 5 years or more to repay the loan, that too if one gets the job in geographies like US/HK/Singapore. The odds of getting placed in such locations are quite high- probably between 80 to 90%, but surely not 100%. There were several people who struggled to find jobs during 2009 recession and went back to India from schools like Wharton and Chicago, forget the lower ranked schools. If you are one of the unlucky10-20% who can't get jobs in these $paying locations and are forced to come back to India, you had it- you won't be able to repay the loan for the rest of your life. That is the down side risk. For at least 5 years, you have to make sure that you will be able to work in jobs and countries that can help you to repay the loan, whether you like it or not.

IIM : cost: approx: US$ 50K- affordable, in comparison with US MBA. Most likely outcome, given my profile: Job in India- paying about US$ 35 to 40K (of course adjusted for PPP, it would be much more); one can have, not high, but a reasonable standard of living in India. The upside probability: 20 to 25% probability of getting into the same MNCs that one can get after Booth/ Wharton MBA- like MBB, Goldman, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan, UBS etc., most probably for Indian positions, but in a few cases for postings in Singapore, London, New York (10-15% probability). Not a big loan burden and repayment is no big deal.
In the long run, what will be the outcomes after 20 -25 years- God only knows!. I think it will be more to do with who you are and less to do with the school from which you have graduated, to a large extent. In 25 years, India could have many more world scale organizations than is the case today and IIMs could give a significant network advantage for careers in India!

Well, what I have described is a very realistic scenario.

Only if one is looking for global careers ( with limited probability of long term career in India), schools like Booth and Wharton are no brainers, in my opinion.

I am likely to accept Booth's offer, given my preference for a global career, having considered carefully the pros and cons of IIMs vs Both.
Thanks to all for sharing your views and giving your suggestions.

aviroop · Answer

manohar - I beg to differ on some of your comments.

1. The guys who got hit during the recession - quite a few of them managed to find well paid jobs in India, SE Asia and elsewhere. Booth's career services is top notch and they will try their utmost to help you find a job. It is possible that during the recession and afterwards, several people did not find their dream jobs, but 2-3 years later on, most have been recruited in consulting firms or in banks. Besides there are several candidates who have come back to India on their own for well paid jobs. 100K USD salaries in India in the financial services sector is not rare any more, especially in the VP or SVP roles in BB firms.

2. 20-25% of placement in BB/MC from IIM is a stretch. The placements are a crap shoot. Your GPA, class rankings and how well connected you are with the student placement officer (a 2nd year student) play a heavy weight on the recruitment process. Don't get swayed with the dreamy statistics put up by IIMs. For every 1 person getting recruited by Goldman (the class topper), 20 folks in the batch are going to State Bank of India, Air India or to Uni Lever. I am not dissing the companies, but the expectations.

3. The roles are also substantially junior if you pass out from IIM. It will take you another 4-5 years to reach the management positions that you would get had you graduated from Booth.

I could not agree more with your last paragraph. - In the long run, what will be the outcomes after 20 -25 years- God only knows!. I think it will be more to do with who you are and less to do with the school from which you have graduated, to a large extent. In 25 years, India could have many more world scale organizations than is the case today and IIMs could give a significant network advantage for careers in India!.

Very well said. A local institution always has the home field advantage. But at the end of the day an MBA is not just about rankings but who you meet and the connections you build.

Best of luck in your endeavours.

manohar · Answer

aviroop,
 Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I agree that Booth has an excellent career services office and they will do their best to help the Booth graduates to get suitable jobs. I have no doubt what so ever about this.

While I don't have any survey based info to give actual %s and numbers, based on anecdotal information, I do feel that there is a down side risk- may be 5-10%- and one needs to take that into account- that was all I wanted to state.
Regarding IIMs, I do have fairly accurate information. The 20-25% probability I mentioned is what I estimated, given my own profile and not that of the the average statistic for the average IIM student. If you take a typical batch of 360 students in an IIM, about 60 to 70 jobs are available in top notch management consulting and BB organizations, that I have mentioned above. 50% are reservation candidates. So you are essentially competing with about 200 people for these top notch jobs. The odds of whether one can get one of these jobs depends a lot on who you are and what is your profile as also academic performance. 
Thanks for sharing your views.

manohar · Answer

Nearly two years have passed since my first post on the above topic.
 I have chosen to join Chicago Booth over IIMs B/C PGP.
 Now I can say that I have no regrets about the decision I have made.
About 30-35 Indians get into Chicago Booth MBA every year and most of them find reasonably good jobs in US.
But a few (one or two) do face some difficulty in finding good jobs and this can be problematic during the period of economic down turn.

I thought I will just update.

MacFauz · Answer

Thanks Manohar... It's always nice to see someone come back and give closure to these "wich b-school to choose" threads...

mgg234 · Answer

Congrats, what career did you decide on?

manohar · Answer

My future career - management consulting- got a job with one of the M/B/B firms.

Just for the information of those of you aspiring for an MBA in US- Even if one gets into a top US business school, all students are not equal; some are more equal than others. It all depends on your profile- the kind of educational background and prior work experience.

In the case of Indian citizens, if you have already studied and worked in US and have a green card, you are at an advantage compared to those students who studied and worked entirely in India/ outside US, before joining the B-school in US.

Those who have studied in IIT/ NIT or had prior work experience in companies like Mckinsey, BCG, Goldman Sachs, Barclays, Google etc. before joining the MBA are at an advantage over others who studied in a regular/ not so well-known college and did not have prior work experience in companies like those mentioned above.

If you have just regular IT software experience form companies like Infosys , TCS and WIPRO, first of all getting in is much more difficult and even after getting in, finding a good internship and a good job is difficult (some people with these backgrounds do manage, though).

mgg234 · Answer

Thanks, how competitive did you find MBB recruiting, for both domestic and international students?

Chicago Booth or IIM B/C

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