Duke Fuqua vs Yale SOM

Question

Hello fellows, long time reader, first time poster here. First of all - GMATclub is amazing place that helped me to get a place in two top MBA programs. My thanks to people who created this site and continue to support it.

I'm really confused. Got into Yale SOM and Duke Fuqua. No money. Already spoke to a lot of ppl in both schools still cant decide.
My profile: International - Eastern Europe; GMAT 700+; 5 years W/E in mgmnt consulting
MBA goals: 1) try to develop my own entrepreneurial project during MBA (very low chances but agreed to work as hell) if it fails go to 2) product mgmnt in big technology company (amazon/google/etc)
Intend to work 1-3 years in US (no location preference) then go back to home country but you never know.

I highlited some important factors I need to consider (correct me if Im wrong). I also do not consider people, culture, campus visit and fit (liked it in both schools):

Yale SOM
- Im international so brand power is important (if I wont stay in US)
- School demostrated intentions to improve, secured place in top10 and probably will do a lot to stay there
- Can take classes from other Yale shools (in particular I want some basic computer sciense, programming and software development)
- Every year 12-15 ppl from Yale gradute to start their own busines (compare to 3-6 from Fuqua)
- Big city nearby, NYC is interesting for general US experience and also not bad area for IT-related start-ups
- Integrated with main university. Can be a member of greater Yale commuity and use it for career/my project
- Less academically intense so more time for my project (not sure)
- If my carrer goals chage Yale has more different open doors (not sure)
- Y-bomb

Duke Fuqua
- Brand is OK internationally
- Historically good and consistent rankings
- Very good placement in tech
- Some entrepreneurial activities, but mostly Bio/Med and only 3-6 ppl go this path annually
- Durham is good place. I like small towns. But I'm afraid that will limit my overall US culture experience
- Larger and more established b-school network
- Not really integrated with greater Duke community. And all social life/networking revolves around Fuqua classmates.
- Duke name is well respected in US corporate sector, they proven themselves (in case I stay in US long term)
- Weather is waaaaay better

Welp. :cry:

teleste · Answer

The #s look good at both places:
https://som.yale.edu/programs/mba/career ... ent-report
https://www.fuqua.duke.edu/documents/mba ... 015-16.pdf

I think it comes down to fit and which brand/network will be the most helpful to you in the long-run.

Given the info in your post, I'd vote...

Krio

Y-bomb

Full disclosure: I can't stand the Cameron Crazies

bb · Answer

Congratulations on your hard work and great results!

Something to add - Duke is really good with MBB and Consulting should you want to fall back on that as a safety option for employment. Overall Fuqua's numbers are better in terms of employment, hiring, and salary. It also tends to have a more uniform distribution of grads around the US vs. Yale that tends to be Northeast and West Coast (more regionalized and thus while a stronger name internationally, not as strong in the US).

I would add that Yale is in New Haven, definitely bigger than Durham but not a big city by any standard and NYC is 3-4 hours by car/train. New Haven got hit by a few economic issues and is not the most prosperous place in the world. I don't think the location is great for either school is what I am saying.

As to taking programming and other classes - maybe but you can take programming classes online since it is a pretty technical aspect - it is cool to use it for Excel and modeling but if you do anything more involved or hardcore, it is will take away from your bschool experience which is supposed to be about leadership development, networking, and ultimately recruiting. From what you saying, you are going to be busy with the startup so you won't have time to spend on programming/etc and if you really want it, then take those classes now and learn it now. What most suggest is get your public speaking skills up - it will go a long way in bschool as you deliver presentations and network. In other words, I do not think Yale's greater class selection is of value in your situation.

On the pure numbers (rankings, employment, etc) Fuqua wins. The only thing Yale has going for itself is the international name. Fuqua has an odd name that many may not know outside of the US and pronounce it incorrectly (I know I did a long time ago). However, I feel there is more upside in Fuqua than Yale.

Krio · Answer

teleste, bb, thank you for your comments.

bb, can you please specify a few things,

Hiring/employment/salary data shows that Duke is only slightly better than Yale, the difference is really small. Is it correct or did I fail to notice something important? Consulting is safe option for me but I think I could make in MBB (not in US) without MBA if I wanted. But I really dont. Only if life forces me and I have no other options.

Not as strong compared to Duke MBA or not that strong compared to Yale undegrad? Probably I have incorrect evaluation of the power of brand here? Assume we are in US and we say Duke MBA has brand recognition and respect of 10 out of 10. What is in you opinion will be brand power for 1) Yale MBA 2) Greater Yale community (SOM is not a law school, but I heard Y-bomb would make ppl assume I'm not an idiot and have something worth listening to)

Maybe it is coincidence but while in Yale I talked to students who... well they had something that could be described as achievement that made them stand out in the crowd. It could be coincidence. Or just their ablility to present themselves (plus goes to Yale leadership classes). Big international leadership experience, built his own business etc...

And thank you for your advice on software dev. What worrys me about Duke is that almost nobody goes to entrepreneurship after graduation. It is not like Yale is major entrep hub, but still better numbers than Duke.

Morgan15 · Answer

bb, not to hijack this thread but I was under the impression that Yale was on the upswing. Is that not the case?

Porkbun123 · Answer

Full disclosure: I was rejected by Duke and accepted to Yale in round 1, and I will be enrolling at Yale this fall.

I don't have an axe to grind with Duke, nor am I looking to cheerlead Yale, but I feel that I must refute some of the misinformation presented in bb's post.

Yale's big 3 consulting numbers (MBB) for the class of 2017 blows Duke's traditional numbers out of the water: ~23 to McKinsey, 18/15 to BCG/Bain. Out of a class of ~330 students, that's roughly 17% of the class that went into MBB. These numbers are comparable to those posted by programs such as Chicago, Columbia, and Tuck. Meanwhile, Duke has traditionally hovered around 7% of the class sent to MBB. What annoys me is that Yale doesn't publish these numbers in its employment report (if Yale did, class of 2017 numbers would show up in next year's employment report anyway).  Krio , if you are skeptical of the figures I presented, I implore you to contact the Yale's consulting club for verification.

Even for overall hiring numbers, Yale has Duke beat on first year median compensation: ~$149K to ~142K
 https://poetsandquants.com/2017/01/19/mbas-make-first-year-work/3/

It is true that Yale loses in average salary, but median salaries are a better representation of student outcomes anyway, given that they aren't skewed by outliers.

Not true. A simple search in Google maps (and from my own personal experience) shows that it takes 2 hours to get from New Haven to NYC, by train or by car.

Yale has Duke beat in every ranking (USNews, FT, Economist, P&Q) except for Bloomberg.

This is a unfairly superficial statement about SOM.

Yale has a smaller class size, which translates into a very tight knit school community. It's alumni giving rate of 50%, which trails only Tuck's, is testament to this.
 https://poetsandquants.com/2016/08/02/yale-alums-break-giving-mark-2nd-year/  
This is a dated article, but it shows Duke having an alumni giving rate of about 20%.
 https://poetsandquants.com/2011/05/30/best-b-school-alumni-networks/3/

Given your focus on entrepreneurship, the Yale Entrepreneurship Institute is doing some great work under Prof Kyle Jensen. His presentation at welcome weekend blew me away.

Furthermore, with Dean Snyder's vision to transform Yale into the most global business school through GNAM, Yale's emphasis on globalism is another distinguishing feature that separates it from many of its peers.

Personally, even if had I gotten into Duke, it would have taken significant scholarship to sway me away from Yale. The momentum of school is incredible, and every student I talked to at admitted students weekend felt that way. I hope you're able to check out both admitted students weekends prior to making your decision!

Krio · Answer

Porkbun123 thank you for the input! And congrats on admit! Great school! I researched pretty much everything I could and at the moment keeping my balance on the edge. It takes one butterfly to sit on my shoulder to make me fall for one school or another. So every piece of information is priceless. I'm not. Unofficial info from current students more or less supports your statement. Major conclusion that I see - the difference in published salaries is so small that could not serve as critical factor for desicion. I think bb could make a little mistake because he visited Yale some time ago. 2 or 3 hours - it is not ctitical here. Conclusion is that the big city is not far and you can reach it for career/investor/recreational reasons. I personally give more pros to Durham because I like small towns. Rankings are very close. 9 vs 12. It is close to annual fluctuations almost every school has. And I would say Fuqua ranking historically more stable. And it is amazing that Fuqua has this rank with GMAT 695 and ~25% admit rate. That means they are very very strong in other areas (for ranking). And if one day they increase GMAT to let say 710 they will go way up in the rank. So again I can not use it as desicion maker. Yes, well explored and gives a big plus to Yale. Not to mention you Yalies have very advanced and non-standard classes like management of software development. And very active in arranging high-caliber meetings with top businessmen and politics in different countries. And thats the interesting part. New Dean generated amazing boost for Yale SOM. And I really like the school's current trajectory. However if Dean Snyder leaves tomorrow what will be the new strategy? Maintain current speed and direction is not enough. Going back to non-profit school? This is the X factor. It looks a lot like VC investment to me. With all the pros and cons. Admitted weekend is not an options infortunately. I liked people in both schools and can imagine myself among them. Porkbun123 I could not read your story with your posts in profile, maybe you have it somewhere? Btw I got a ding from Booth too

Back2US · Answer

Hi Krio,

My quick 2 cents on Yale coming from a similar profile (EE background, 5 years consulting in Germany), but with entirely different goals (social impact consulting, and I have no inclination for entrepreneurship):

- Lots of classmates working on their own startups (some fail, some move ahead, but there is definitely a lot of activity happening)
- Lots of support for entrepreneurship recently; many non-SOM resources are starting to get leveraged, and SOM’s new strategy (that Dean Snyder is initiating but would also continue if he were to leave suddenly) will be to become Yale’s hub for all things entrepreneurship – so a lot more exciting offers seem to come.
- Other parts of newer strategy is to expand on international offer (think GNAM, etc) and to expand on non-MBA programs (like Risk Management Master etc)
- Taking classes at other schools is a big perk and value. Some 5 classmates took the stereotypical CS50, and at least another 5 I know took other CS classes etc. Some use their company in their project works afaik. I personally had classes with School of Music, Grad Philosophy Department, Astronomy Lab, School of Forestry, Institute for Global Affairs etc. Huge plus in meeting new people, going beyond MBA, applying skills across sectors, etc.
- NYC/Grand Central is 1h56m away, Boston approx. 3 hours; New Haven can be a very small city if you do not stay downtown but in East Rock (where SOM is)
- Brand is huge outside of US (especially places like Europe it opens doors) and outside of business sector. Within US business it is a lot more equal
- Rankings/employment: Don’t see either winning over the other, but bear in mind that SOM’s stronger focus on nonprofit and social responsibility actually drags down average salary numbers and ranking, so what you see is not always the full picture; especially in light of continuous ranking improvements it seems like other MBAs are catching up to SOM

- Academic intensity: As hard as you make it
- Career change: Always possible
- Recruiting: Bunch of classmates going to Amazon/Google/etc after graduation, other bunch going to MBB and other top consulting in US and internationally

Happy to chat about my reasons for not choosing Fuqua (which is a great place as well), and happy to connect you with a Eastern European student at Fuqua – PM me if interested!

- Academic intensity: As hard as you make it - Career change: Always possible - Recruiting: Bunch of classmates going to Amazon/Google/etc after graduation, other bunch going to MBB and other top consulting in US and internationally Happy to chat about my reasons for not choosing Fuqua (which is a great place as well), and happy to connect you with a Eastern European student at Fuqua – PM me if interested!

bb · Answer

Yes, it is and has been - they are year 2 into it. We will see if that's a blimp or perhaps a long-term trend. Too early to tell...

crackHSW · Answer

Congrats on the admits!!

I would suggest to ask the career management service of both the schools to share the career stats of each student that got into consulting or product management roles. MBB is super competitive and there are visa issues related to international students. Recruiters are always biased towards folks that do not require any form of sponsorship!!(Think about the situation of not getting the visa and then telling your client that you are headed back to your country , no consulting firm would want to take that risk).

Product management is relatively easy and you should get it from either of the schools.

Hope this is helpful!!

VeritasPrepDozie · Answer

I like Yale for you...gives you that LT brand equity. Both schools are great programs so you really can't go wrong here

JohnMcGill · Answer

The reason Fuqua is not in top 5 is because is admits Olympic sportsmen and other very outstanding profiles from around the world. That's what has built TeamFuqua. If I could go back in time, I would have considered attending Fuqua over Stanford (GSB) only because the friendships you build during the 2 years are priceless and building them with world leaders and famous people is just something different!

By attracting and offering admits to such outstanding people, Fuqua's average GMAT is hurt adversely but that is because such world reunion students don't really care about GMAT and therefore in order to have these students join their MBA class, Fuqua's GMAT average is lower than competition thereby reducing its rank significantly. However, this can be changed drastically whenever they want.

Sent from my iPhone using GMAT Club Forum

rtbs15 · Answer

A very out of the box analysis..... Well done.

$0.02, and tremendously personal opinion: I'd go with Yale. Uprising, Ivy League quality, really nice campus, a very tight knit community and great momentum ,which I would bet is here to stay. A top (insert the number you want) university in the world has and will continue to have an MBA program up to those standards.

On MBB Gate, and again this is personal, the school does little more than getting companies to campus for placement purposes, it is 100% you who gets the job or don't. The books are the same, workshops are the same, and the only advantage one school has over the other is that you will coincide with professionals with the same aspirations and you'll synergize greatly when classmates case you, and you case them. After doing my MBA I firmly believe that synergies greatly outweigh competition where many are after the same goal. And it seems that SOM has more people interested in consulting than Fuqua if I am not mistaken.

Regarding entrepreneurship, I'd think that going to SOM will give you access to the wider university network, and that is an advantage in itself, given that you will be able to interact with a lot of people making the calls on investment decisions.

If you go to Fuqua, I'd say you'll be great as well, is not a mismatch in any aspect but entrepreneurship network, at least for me obviously.

Good luck!

Duke Fuqua vs Yale SOM

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