Fuqua vs Yale vs Reapply

Question

Hi everyone,

My first post here - as the topic suggests: I'm a bit undecided between going to B-school or reapply next year

Profile:
25 year old 
GMAT:750
Top 20 US undergrad
3.5 GPA
3 years of WE by matriculation
Big 4 tech consulting/advisory

Short term: MBB
Long term: starting my company

Result thus far: 
Booth:ding after interview
Wharton, CBS: ding without interview
Duke, Yale: admitted without scholarship

I was hoping to get in an M7 school this year but the reality disagreed with me. My question is that if I reapply next year: with one more year under my belt, I will have 4 years of WE before matriculate - just in-line with other candidates, would 1 more year really make that big of difference and significantly increase my chance? In my opinion, with 3 year experience (2 years when apply), AO would label my profile as "early applicant" and still compare me to applicants who are consultant/senior consultant with 4-5 years of working experience or those harvard+MBB three-year candidates, but I will be in-line with the mainstream applicants next year (also will receive a promotion). I talked to some friends who went through this process and they told me Fuqua & Yale places pretty well into MBB - that's no problem if you just wanted to move into MBB - but an M7 MBA would be quite helpful in the longer term (acquiring funding/alum network/starting business etc). The risk of reapplying is that I could end up with nothing next year.

Any thoughts are welcome.

Thanks!

KS15 · Answer

Go to Yale. There's no guarantee you will score better on the GMAT and M7 is difficult for most people. Fuqua is a great school but Yale is marginally better in Consulting and places very well in MBB.

bb · Answer

Welcome to GMAT Club and congratulations on your Admits! To take the offer or to reapply..... It all depends of course - the worst kind of answer

How good were your applications this year? Were you just worse than other applicants on paper or did your applications not have the shine they could have? Can you stay at your job or do you HAVE to go MBA? Some schools do like younger candidates and some prefer older, and Yale seems to be a younger type of a school. Are you mature enough right now? Are you able to take advantage of the MBA program at the moment or will the collective burden of your undergrad and grad loans crush you? Look at your applications and what difference you want to make in the next year or two - you are still fairly young, which I know how one feels when others tell them that, so i am guessing you will ignore it but you do have time and you can accomplish quite a bit. You have to see if you can make a difference and bend the professional/career trajectory up at your workplace or will it continue at the current pace? I doubt you will do worse next near but if the economy takes a hit and your responsibilities are cut and there are a lot more applicants, it may get tougher, but I don't think your chances will be worse if that's what you are considering. At the same time Yale and Fuqua are in and out of the top 10 over the years and offer solid placements into MBB. But if you want not to have regrets and not have second thoughts (which I think this whole post is about), there is probably only one way to do it - hire an admissions consultant for 2-4 hours and pay them a grand and basically have them review your application and provide you advice and their input. You are already committing to pay $150K for the MBA, what's $1K for peace of mind? (potentially also saves you from the deposit you will have to put down). Congratulations! Many would be very very happy with the school selection you ended up with.

ENGRTOMBA2018 · Answer

I’ll be able to better reply once you provide me your reasons for not applying to Kellogg given that your goal is to break into MBB. I also see that you got dinged after interview at Booth, which only tells me that you had a decent ‘story’. You are on the younger side of the spectrum and frankly that also plays a part when say you have 2 candidates but 1 spot. Schools usually go for older candidate as age is used as a proxy in this case for more nuanced conversations an experienced person can bring to the table.

Other thing that top 5 schools have started to look at is the relevance of your goal to where you are right now. You mentioned that you come from big 4 tech consulting/advisory. I’m assuming you mean Deloitte, ATK, Strategy & and like. If that’s the case, if you mentioned that you want to now switch to MBB without having genuine reasons (other than a better brand name), your application was not deemed worthy of an admit at Booth/CBS/Wharton.

If you do stick with your current choices, Fuqua wins over Yale as they have a stronger MBB recruitment but a smaller class size of Yale might play in your favor. Smaller class size can also hinder your experience as you won’t have that many experiences to draw upon.

Posted from my mobile device

KS15 · Answer

I disagree with the above poster on a couple of points.
1. Both Fuqua and SOM send 30-40 to MBB with class sizes of 450 and 350 odd. Which means SOM does a better job and your odds are better at SOM.
2. I am not sure what more you can draw from a class of 450 that you can't from 350. Infact, I would argue that large class sizes are actually distracting and you don't get to even know everyone.

potatobasket · Answer

Thanks for your input. Kellogg is probably the #1 consulting school where almost everyone I worked for who are applying this year applied to. B-schools typically have a certain number of seats for a specific cohort, so I guess if I can't get in CBS my chance of getting in Kellogg is rather slim. Secondly, from my interaction with current students, I got the impression that Kellogg does put more weight on the length of working experience compared to other schools like Booth/CBS. It may as well be the sample size, but the youngest student I knew has 4 years before matriculation.

To answer your second question, I'm working in tech consulting which is quite different from strategy. So I was hoping to use MBA to pivot into consulting that is more strategy focused, and probably into a better brand as well.

To answer your second question, I'm working in tech consulting which is quite different from strategy. So I was hoping to use MBA to pivot into consulting that is more strategy focused, and probably into a better brand as well.

ENGRTOMBA2018 · Answer

Fair points and yes, Kellogg does lean more towards the length of your employment but at the end of the day, it is all about quality of WE over quantity. As for your CBS vs Kellogg thing, I got dinged after interview at CBS while I got admitted to Kellogg. So, you can not base your chances on ding from other schools. It is a weird set of things that come together to determine whether you get into a particular top 5 school or for that matter M7.

I understand that tech consulting is different from strategy consulting but the trend that I have seen personally is that too many people are trying to switch to MBB only for that prestige (which is true to an extent). Hence, adcoms have become quite wary of such candidates. If you were able to show that you knew why you wanted to switch to MBB, you should be fine wrt that consideration.

Finally, I wanted to know your reasons for reapplying as most people do undertake that journey without doing proper due diligence as to why your application failed in the first place. Something that  bb  has alluded to in his post as well. I would say, seek out "ding analysis" for one of your apps (an app you personally thought was your best one) via admissions consultants (you can find a list on GC) and see what they say. Back in the day, feedback I got for my Wharton app (dinged after interview) was that they couldnt find anything that would have dinged me. So, I think it is ok to go the reapplication route. Mind you, with reapplications, schools want to see that you have 'grown' and done some 'self introspection' within that 1 year.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

Accepted.com · Answer

Hello Potato Basket,

First of all, congrats on your acceptances. There's a lot that goes into a decision of decline offers or accept them. I agree with Bogdan -- it depends. However if the schools you are accepted to support your goals, then I'm inclined to grab the bird in hand. But let's examine your situation more closely.

1) Your academics are highly competitive. Nothing rally to change there.
2) Your work experience is on the low side and a year should change that, especially if you get a promotion and can show greater impact at work.
3) No discussion of community service so I can't comment on that. However its absence may also be something to change in the upcoming year.
4) The quality of your presentation. Can't comment. If it could be improved, it could change both acceptance and scholarship offers.

If you accept either Duke's or Yale's offer, you start your MBA a year sooner which marginally reduces your opportunity cost and means you will have one more year of post-MBA earnings. If you reject their offer, you are less likely to get accepted when you reapply. (I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is less likely.)

If you improve on #3 and #4 above, your chances should improve at programs like Columbia, Chicago, Kellogg, and other M7s that are strong both in consulting placement and entrepreneurship, which is basically all of the M7.

So basically it boils down to how much does that M7 brand mean to you? is it worth completing your MBA a year later and possibly blowing your chance to attend Duke or Yale?

If you decide that you really want the better brand M7 MBA or if you simply want to have more informed input before you make your decision, then I agree with Bogdan and I would strongly encourage you to have a  Rejection Review . In the context of the MBA, the cost is pocket change and the insight could be invaluable.

Best,
Linda

mradamsmith · Answer

Surprised by the voting results given Fuqua's historical MBB placement and rep. Like mentioned above, those two schools would likely not readmit given that they understand you'd be shooting higher. That is a big risk, and given your background and scores, you would be a ripe candidate for MBB going into either of these places right now. I would say 1) go this year and get a huge head start on increased earning power 2) choose based on fit, as Yale and Duke are peers in this space. Were you able to attend admitted students days?

potatobasket · Answer

Hi all, thanks for all the great advice.

OP revisiting this post after 2 years. To give some updates, I decided to go to one of the two schools mentioned above instead of reapplying and have just graduated from my MBA program. Will be starting my new job in a few days so I want to pay it forward and share some of my thoughts on picking schools

Disclaimer: just my 2cents based on my experience and what I've seen from many graduating from other schools this year.

Job placement matters a lot to me in making decisions, so I will talk about this first. I think it's an exaggeration to correlate schools or school ranking with job placement, that, for example, if you want a job in NYC, then you need to go to Stern or CBS or if you want to do consulting, you would prioritize Kellogg over others. The truth is all top schools can provide enough exposure and guidance, whether it's MBB, tech or banking, so it will eventually come down to your pre-school background/experience, and your effort at school. I've seen people at top 5 schools who failed to break into consulting twice and so many others from outside M7 got into MBB or top tech/banks. That being said, there will always be small differences in terms of placement such as locations, school strengths, and so on. Kellogg, for example, has more weight in tech and consulting because 1. more students recruit for these two (sadly this means it's more competitive) and 2. more alums in these two fields, but it's hardly a target school for any investment bank. So the answer is yes, Kellogg definitely has a premium in consulting, but that premium is infinitesimal compared to how prepared you are, how well you network and case. (when looking at data, don't forget there are tons of sponsored students) If you are a strong candidate, even if you go to a less-consulting oriented school, you can still get the job done. Anecdotally, I also personally knew a few from Kellogg who are placed well into investment banking, if not better, than those from Booth. So in bulk sense, all business schools have enormous resources to get you the proper network and training, it will eventually come down to each individual. One catch is that different schools will go to different lengths for you, some very extensive, some not so much, and that does not depend on school ranking at all. At least two of my friends at two different M7 schools complained to me about their school's career services, so I would recommend perspectives to gather more information and talk to current students to get a sense about the school's career service.

Business schools are a lot like invite-only parties where students only hang out with their classmates, not so much with JD, MD or PhD. (which I hope can be improved). So my thought is to find a school that you feel most comfortable with, whether you want to get some city-vibes or you prefer to retreat to a combo of city & countryside or complete country-side. Do you want a university town type of experience (think Ross/Booth) or a smaller college experience (Tuck). All schools will host an admitted students weekend, I would strongly recommend attending one if you are deciding on it. The people you meet will very likely be your classmates for the next two years, which one do you enjoy the most to hang out with?

Scholarship can play an important role and that will depend largely on each student's financial situation. I want to highlight three things here: 1. cost of attendance - schools like Fuqua and Ross not only have lower tuition costs ($5,000-10,000 cheaper each academic year) but living in a college town can be way cheaper than living in cities. 2. school assistance - this can be huge and is normally overlooked. For example, at Stern taking a TA job for 1 class for 1 semester earns you $3-4K; besides that, there are many other financial packages such as Covid financial aids, tutors etc that amounts to $400-500 each that are passed around ALL THE TIME. 3. Having a large student debt sucks but paying back student debt, with MBA-level salary, is way easier than you think. Popular MBA jobs in tech, consulting and banking all can easily boost your comps well above $200K (one of the reasons that MBA programs can charge students an absurd amount of money and it is still increasing at 5% each year) So basically most people can pay down their debt in 2 years, of course, contingent on finding a job. So in that sense, a difference of 30K - 40K scholarship is not that much of a difference when compared to school resources to help you get a job, culture and professional alignment with schools.

Lastly, the interaction with current students - I think they might be a good proxy for how you would be treated in the future. What do you feel after you interacted with 3-4 current students? Is your alum interviewer a nice person, are student ambassadors responsive to your emails and considerate when interacting with you? If you ever considered working internationally, I would pick schools with broader international recognition. The business school ranking may worth a look for MBAs, but 99.9% of people are not MBAs and most people outside the circle, especially those outside the US, have never heard of Booth or Sloan etc but can always recognize Yale as a great university.

Those were some things I have thought about but if anyone has specific questions, please feel free to message me and I'm happy to help. Finally, good luck everyone and hope you have a great MBA experience!!

Fuqua vs Yale vs Reapply

Fuqua vs Yale vs Reapply

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