HEC vs LBS vs Judge vs IMD [ Solved: Judge]

Question

If you received an admission to all these schools, which one would you choose and why? Consider that your aim is to make a triple jump, you are 35, you speak English, French, and German perfectly, and you do not need a visa for any of these places. Also, please, assume that the tuition was the same for each school and your only concern is the quality of education and the chances of landing a good job after the programme (consulting or industry, excluding finance).

bb · Answer

Welcome to GMAT Club and Congratulations!!! I saw your post come in this afternoon and have been looking for a stretch of quiet time to reply. It is midnight now and that stretch never came so here I go... first of all, I have to say you have killed my usual arguments for which school to attend with your language skills.... this will make me work hard

I am not sure what a triple jump is - I can see industry, function, and is the third? Location? I would look at it in a few ways: 1. Do you want an internship? Some of these programs are 2 years and others are 1. If you are making multiple jumps, does it make sense to get some relevant experience in the shape/form of an internship? I can also see you not wanting to do that at 36 or 37. 2. LBS will cost meaningfully more than the others. It is basically double of what Judge will be. You said tuition is not a concern (you are ruining it for me - i just put an ROI post together - https://gmatclub.com/forum/highest-roi- ... 60130.html You really know how to deliver a blow

) but in all seriousness, does it mean you are financially pretty stable and thus feel it is a lifetime goal or you just don't want the noise of a few thousand euros or pounds to distract from the decision? 3. Quality of education and landing a job unfortunately have little in common. You may go to the program with the best professors and score nothing at the end. Being older you won't be fitting the traditional MBA mold (here is a post about at a US program for a more experienced candidate: https://gmatclub.com/forum/mba-after-30 ... 00397.html and basically this means you will have to work hard to score a job - it will be up to you and not the education or the program. Some provide the most options and chances by bringing employers on campus and that's great but you will be competing with all of your classmates for the best and worst positions really. 4. I am going to say what will make you hate me (payback for ruining my ROI post) - you can make it work with all of these programs. When you look at their post performance, you throw in your non-traditional skillset, now take it 2-3 years from now and the results will be very hard to control. It would not be a mistake to attend any of these for the right reasons. I think some programs stand out a bit more in some respects (e.g. HEC is great to Paris recruiting; LBS is strong in London; IMD is focused on more experienced candidates but it kind of lost its way over the past 10 years; and Judge is great if you want to be in places other than London/Paris) 5. My hope and guess is that you probably want to be involved with your program after you graduate - join events, alum hangouts, etc. It is a great way to stay in touch, to network and to stay a part of the group. I would encourage you to stay closer to your program in the long run too and if you are fluent across the board, why not look at where you may wane to end up in the long term. 6. For what it it's worth, everyone seems to recruit in London from all EU programs. Partially due to the language preference. Makes London very competitive and in light of Brexit/all the uncertainty and economy taking a big break, hard to tell what will happen. I can see a case for being on the ground at LBS and also for taking a route of HEC and being in Paris and always able to go to London if you want later, esp if you have a work permit, that will help you avoid some stupidity perhaps and make you more competitive. Here is perhaps a crazy idea - have you tried locating alums from any of the programs that have background similar to yours? I bet they would be happy to talk to you and share their journey (people love talking about themselves and what they did and they likely did some amazing things). Why not troll the linkedin a bit and see if you connect with a few. If they don't respond, perhaps that's a sign? What do you think?

Wolf3132 · Answer

Hi bb! Thanks a lot for your kind and much appreciated reply. 1. Triple jump includes function, sector (and maybe location, though this may be less of an issue since I do not need a visa and already know the language). Being almost 35, of course I would prefer a shorter MBA. However, if the extra time + internship would be critical in landing the job, I would be happy to sacrifice a few extra months! 2. Your point is correct. Of course a scholarship at one of this schools would end up being the decisive factor for me (I am indeed applying for scholarships too). But this is something I do not really need an advice on... When I said to ignore tuitions, I was simply aiming at getting a genuine evaluation independent of fees. So, certainly, I will have to consider money in making my decision

But if I get 50 experts on here telling me that LBS is way superior, of course I would consider a loan or smth to go the extra mile... 3. I think I should have been more specific on the fact that between 'quality of education' and 'chances of landing a well-paid job', the second is the most important. In fact, my main concern is that being almost 35 (so 36+ by the end of the prog), most firms won't even consider my profile. 4. Thanks for the honest and clear comment. I am pocketing and treasuring it! 5. I think continental Europe would be my preference, with Austria/Switzerland being the real dream. But again, this choice would be secondary to landing a good and well-paid job. I'd rather work in supply chain management on a well-paid position in London or Paris, than on a more junior position in Vienna. In any case, surely I would want to remain close to my school as you suggested. 6. It seems almost like, you would personally lean towards HEC. This is surely a good choice... I am waiting to see if I can get a scholarship from them. This will surely be a decisive factor. Thanks for the suggestion to stalk some alumni

I am doing it quite actively and it is indeed very helpful. At the end, I think the scholarship may be decisive... I am keeping my fingers crossed! Thanks a gain for your nice advice!

bb · Answer

Thank you in turn for a thoughtful and detailed reply. It’s a pleasant conversation 😎

You seem like a very exceptional candidate and I think your meticulous approach should go along way to help you with landing a job. Yes you are older, but employers don’t necessarily look at your age. They can tell how old you are by looking at your graduation date from your undergrad but it’s really about the length of your work experience and if you have an advanced degree such as PhD or others, it only adds value and doesn’t make you too old per se.

The issue intern becomes companies looking to hire entry-level MBA consultants and they won’t know what to do with you so to speak Since you will be more qualified no established. You can definitely recruit through the industry expert track in consulting. This is not a business school track but if someone is an expert within the industry, they can join the number of consulting firms including the MBB. MBA is usually not required and instead they’re looking for intense industry skill sets. These positions are not as abundant however as general business school consultants.

I don’t know much about European recruiting but Usually everywhere MBB consulting is very competitive. It really all depends on your client facing skills and your story. I think if you kill the interview, It doesn’t seem like they’ll need to invest a lot of time in to training you, I can see you being a huge asset. At the same time only one out of five applicants probably makes it. That’s one out of five who are business school students and thus or a notch above the general population….

I would probably say that Judge and IMD likely the two weaker programs. I cannot see how they would be able to command the strong on campus recruiting drive. Both are fantastic programs but I’m talking about their on campus recruiting. That leaves you with LBS & HC which both are 2-year programs. More expensive too….

I think the biggest question is do you have a brand names on your résumé. It doesn’t matter what you did but do you have a company name that somebody would look at and be impressed with? With someone find validation through a brand? If not, I would recommend doing an internship and getting that validation through the internship. That’s your first decision. What brand does, is that it catches a recruiter Zai. When they see someone for example from LBS or HEC and they see 20 applicants from the same program with the same credential, they need some thing else to hang onto and feel like they’re not taking chances with you. People want guaranteed results. Just like you want guaranteed results from a business school, recruiters want guaranteed results from the people they hire. There’s not a lot of reward for taking risk.

If you have a brand, then I would pick a one year program. If you do not, it will be critical to success to get one as an internship.

I am actually hoping you don’t need to do a two-year program since you are older, you have spent quite a bit of time in school and paying more money and burning more time is really not very efficient.

Second, I feel with your experience, you will probably generally be recruiting off-campus. He will benefit from on campus recruiting and getting practice and may even get some leads, but I feel most positions offered on campus will likely be a mismatch. That takes out the chunk of value and I feel the second decision would be looking at cost. Since you’re not getting the full value, you want to proportionally conserve resources.

That would be my starting points. 😇

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Wolf3132 · Answer

Thank you very much! This was very informative indeed. I will now wait to see if I get a scholarship (and, if so, at which school)... I will then share my final decision on here. I agree with you that a longer MBA would allow me to add a brand to my CV via internship... And this is very important. I may have some of these brands already (though not MBB), so it will definitely be up to me to showcase it and work hard on the networking side to land a good internship/job. The off-campus recruitment is also a useful tip that I received from multiple alumni... Especially at HEC, this seems to be the most prevalent gateway!

rtbs15 · Answer

Hey there, and congrats on your admits! Nice problem to have. I generally agree with all that's been said, but will still speak at risk of not adding any value

IMO, in terms of pecking order LBS >> HEC > IMD > Judge. From that perspective only, you might want to consider going to LBS and doing the accelerated program, you'll be out in a year. The real question is what's next, and what is your benchmark? A good MBA salary in the UK is £90-100k, don't know if that fulfills your expectations. France would be a bit lower, Switzerland higher (purchasing power as well, I went to CH after graduating and lived much better than my UK peers). So it depends on what do you consider a high paying salary. I would also agree with bb that you should go for the experienced hire track, making me question if you need the MBA in the first place! This makes me think that if you still want to do an MBA, and won't be taking much advantage of the school recruiting, you should consider IMD, although it is absolutely right that they lost their way a bit. The only reason why I'm saying this is not because their recruiting is strong, but the candidates have more experience, and that might be a good place for you to network. Connect with your peers, and land a job in the companies of the sponsored students, making your dream locations more attainable, because a good % of candidates come from CH for sure, less sure about AT. Hope it helps!!

Wolf3132 · Answer

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply.

bb · Answer

Great feedback and analysis of the schools!
I forgot LBS had the accelerated program. I bet you could qualify for it (though not sure how applications work and if you can move around after getting admitted into the program)... but again with your experience I think it would be safe to assume so.

Good point about IMD. It is very much along the lines of your profile - people who speak multiple languages, more experienced, and with strong international experience. Used to be a Top 3 program. I don't know where they are today really. They used to have 7 essays - it was insane.

P.S. A cousin of mine is at LBS at the moment and he is saying lots of people hurting with jobs and internships. He has been lucky to find something but the current economic situation has not been nice to London and UK but it is likely to swing the other way sooner later. Things can be going down and only down.

-B

Wolf3132 · Answer

bb, why do you think that in the survey everybody on here is piking LBS? I would have thought of a much tighter race!

bb · Answer

Ha-ha. I don’t know. I think one reason may be that there isn’t really reliable international ranking but traditionally, LBS has been #2 business school program. Others don’t have as solid if a spot. It is also more aspirational as the result. I often noticed voting being skewed towards better known brands…

I would say in terms of ranking these programs, LBS is number two, HEC is definitely in the top five and judge is probably in the top 10 and I’m not sure if many people are familiar with IMD.

Also, many of the people who are applying and potentially voting, are still in the research and application stage and are eager to get in anywhere at this point and a nice considering financial or other applications.

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Wolf3132 · Answer

Makes a lot of sense! I agree that the brand is likely skewing the vote here

SourGrape · Answer

Wolf3132

I'm in a similar situation as you. Admitted into Cambridge Judge and HEC Paris. Waitlisted for INSEAD.

I contemplated between Judge and HEC until the final day and still had no clue which one to pick. In the end, I chose HEC with a coin toss. I'm 32, engineering background, 8 years of experience in the oil&gas industry from Canada. As far as my line of work goes, I pretty much have done everything and went everywhere in the current climate. International work assignments, lots of business travel, management and leadership roles. Pay and work life balance is good. Only downside is the overall decline in the industry mood, so I'm trying to make a career switch. My goal was a shorter program, pivot into tech or consulting post-MBA in the US.

Anyways, I've paid my deposit into HEC and since then have been having serious doubts about the school. Main concerns are:

1. I've spoken to current students and alumni at both schools and get very mixed reviews. Judge is a weaker program and the students said that they weren't impressed with the program. HEC students seemed to enjoy the school but complained about the career center. 
2. Since I want to get back to North America for work, the HEC brand is non-existent here. No one has heard of it and job search is entirely gonna be up to me on my own. HEC does offer campus exchange so I hoped doing a US exchange for a semester could set me up for some US connections and jobs, but I have no idea if this is realistic or possible. I'm now regretting maybe Cambridge is better choice, afterall, the entire world has heard of Cambridge.
3. Spoke to some recruiters for MBB firms and was told HEC is not a target school and it seemed like they don't hire from HEC. Honestly, I don't know if HEC is a target school for any recruiter, because the overall feedback I got from students and the school was almost like 'You're in France, have fun, don't worry about it, go and enjoy Paris'. INSEAD on the other hand, sitting next door, has every recruiter you can think of hosting parties on campus to get students to apply. This only makes me sad and jealous that I didn't get accepted into INSEAD.
4. With these mixed feedback from students and school, I dived into post-MBA job search. I should have done this sooner, to find 'realist' jobs that I can get post-MBA. Of course the goal is to get an exciting job that has a higher pay than my current ($150k), and in an industry that is optimistic. I'm looking at tech or consulting (to be safe), don't know what else to do at this point. Turns out pay in tech is lower than my current job, and many wants a software or coding background which I dont have. It seems like if I can break into it and accept a 'temporary downgrade in pay', the uprise may be worth it. Amazon is hiring a crazy amount of people but was warned that many post-MBA people work in Amazon only to quickly find themselves looking for exit strategies. Consulting at MBB is higher pay, so that's an upgrade but was told I'll never see my kids again due to the terrible work life balance (60+hours/week and M-T travel). Was told consulting work at the Big Four is also lower pay than my current job plus it's got LOTS of **** travel, so another downgrade from my current job. I personally have no interest in PE or Finance so that door is closed. Now, out of the common post-MBA careers, they all seem like a downgrade from my current job. I don't know what's going on with current MBA students, many seem so unhappy with their MBA decisions and this has me very very worried.
5. I'm now in a state of I don't know if the time and money investment of HEC MBA is even worth it anymore. To do an MBA or not. Seems like job prospects are terrible and current students regret it. Aren't these top MBA programs in the world? Man, I was hoping to hear validation instead of regrets.

Sorry this post started as a reply to relate to you but end up being a rant about my worries. I thought these concerns may save you some time in your decision. You can talk to more alumni or current students and maybe find a better understanding of what you are signing up for.

Do update us on your decision for schools.

Wolf3132 · Answer

Hi,

Thanks for your interesting comment. It seems like you are giving us many reasons to doubt about HEC, but nothing convincing to suggest Cambridge is better... For instance you said that MBB do not recruit from HEC, do they from Cambridge? You mentioned that alumni are unhappy about HEC (not what I heard from about 5 alumni), but how about Judge? You seem to be like INSEAD or nothing... I am a bit critical of this approach. Have you actually talked to INSEAD alumni or are comparing their website's info/rankings with what you heard from hec alumni? This would not be a fair approach. HEC surpassed INSEAD in some important rankings in the last years. This does not mean it's better, surely. But there must be a reason for that? I cant speak about going back to America since I am not from there and would not want to work there (at least in the states). Finally, cost is smth to factor... Do you have a scholarship in any of those? INSEAD with no scholarship is smth you should really think about carefully...

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SourGrape · Answer

Hi  Wolf3132 ,

I’ve just listed mba decision and concerns for my situation, which is different than yours. You’re already based in Europe and wants to work in Europe afterwards, so brand recognition of HEC is superb and will go a great deal. For you I think it’s a solid choice. My situation is working in North America afterwards and hence the points to consider are different. In North America, it is sad but true that no one has heard of HEC. A quick google search will show that this is a highly ranked program, but even then, people have not met or heard of anyone from HEC as most alumni get jobs in Europe. Cambridge is on the other hand is well known in the world. That was my point regarding brand recognition carrying across overseas. Though INSEAD is not an option on the table, the brand recognition is strong world wide and recruiters in NA have heard of it and is actively recruiting from them. That’s just a fact. My concerns are all centered around post-mba career options. It’s great to live abroad and re-invest in yourself for further education, a luxury really, but after 2 years of schooling, there better be exciting job prospects. The pandemic has a big factor in the reviews I’ve had with alumni and students I speak to, but I received honest feedback and mixed reviews were what I got.

Hope you make a choice that’s suitable for you.

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Wolf3132 · Answer

Thanks for your reply. In which case, I would probably suggest you accept you Cambridge offer? Maybe other people on here are better positioned to answer your queries vis-a-vis the North American market and HEC... In any case, please let me know what you decide, it would be very helpful

Wolf3132 · Answer

SourGrape  what have you decided in the end?

Wolf3132 · Answer

ANALysis  I would like your opinion. I have seen some posts where you seem to be very knowledgeable!

Wolf3132 · Answer

The time has come for me to make a final decision. My choice is now between HEC (small scholarship of 16k) or Cambridge Judge (no scholarship, mostly because I applied on round 5). I am in LBS waiting list (possibly with some chances, but if I wait too long I risk losing the other offers). The difference between HEC with scholarship and Cambridge is not huge... Counting living costs, it may boil down to about 5k more for Cambridge... Here some info about myself:

I am a 34 years old academic. I completed a PhD in development studies at Oxford in 2018 and worked as a post-doc ever since. I have also worked as part-time consultant for a few well known international organisations. My intention was never to become an academic. I went for a post-doc because I was interested in a specific short-term project and I wanted to publish my PhD in top journals (which I successfully did). However, the last 2/3 years have proved disastrous vis-a-vis my capacity to develop a business network and I have been unable to leverage my PhD (in a very much business-related topic) to move out of academia. After discussing with several people who followed a similar path, I came to the conclusion that an MBA at a top institution would be helpful to: (1) build a network; (2) re-brand myself; (3) shift my 'what-if' academic mentality to a more 'how-to' problem solving one; and (4) get some notions of accounting, marketing etc that I am missing. I want to live and work in Europe (including UK) and/or Africa and (potentially) Asia. Certainly, not in the US. I have EU citizenship and settled UK status (currently applying for citizenship). I speak perfect English, French, German, and Italian. In terms of functions, I'd be interested in supply chain management and/or general managerial roles. As for the industry, my first choice would be consumer goods or other light manufacturing (e.g. Unilever, Nestle, P&G...). However, I would also consider consulting (especially given my research experience + PhD in relevant topic researching firm performance among SMEs in East Africa).

I have a few days left to decide and I am very puzzled... Any suggestion?  bb   rtbs15   ANALysis

Wolf3132 · Answer

Any help/suggestion is really welcome... I am really unsure what to do...

SourGrape · Answer

Come to HEC! To be honest, because you are trying to be seen less academic and more business, then you need to go to a business school like HEC which is all it does. Both would be solid choices but if you go to Cambridge, most likely you’d work in UK after. Whereas if you go to HEC, UK and EU options would be open to you. Good luck with decisions.

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HEC vs LBS vs Judge vs IMD [ Solved: Judge]

Which school would you choose?

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