Cornell (Johnson) vs UNC (Kenan-Flagler)

Question

Hi All -

I've fortunately been accepted into both Cornell and UNC for their Full Time MBA programs and I'm currently on the waitlist for Kellogg & Fuqua. Cornell did not offer me any form of scholarship but UNC offered me a $34K per year merit scholarship. Given Cornell's full priced tuition (~$74K) and UNC's scholarship-aided tuition (~$32K), Cornell will be a little more than double the cost at the end of the program.

A bit of background about myself: I've spent the past ~5 years at Big 4 within healthcare advisory and I'm interested in transitioning into healthcare investment banking. I'm originally from the Chicagoland area and I'm interested in working there full time following my MBA. I have an interest in working for a middle market healthcare PE firm longer term, but understand that transition may be a difficult one & largely depend on networking down the road.

Cornell's IB immersion & Ivy League reputation seem to be strong; however, UNC seems to be trying to beef up their IB reputation & has a strong healthcare focus. Based on employment reports & talking to students, seems like the same type of banks recruit at both schools but Cornell may have better placement among bulge & elite boutique banks. Banking & PE professionals in Chicago may recognize Cornell as more of a true banking school & better overall program despite Cornell & UNC being similar in the rankings (albeit they may be flawed anyways).

Is Cornell worth double the cost given the long term reputation in banking? If I get into Kellogg or Fuqua off the waitlist, should I go to those regardless? Money is a consideration but not necessarily a limiting factor in the decision, just hope to get the overall best value of the program with the best job/long term network.

Thank you in advance!

bb · Answer

Congratulations on your admits! There are a few perspectives - one says that if you have a strong brand on your resume, you will be able to rise above your peers in BSChools in recruiting and scoop up the best opportunities. The other one says that if you have a strong brand already, go with a stronger one for the max impact and to maintain the trajectory. I don't know which one I believe in

I feel Kellogg would be an awesome program to attend at full cost without reservations. That would be an easy choice being in Chicago, esp. Fuqua would be great as well and a good notch above UNC despite their basketball rivalry. I think it would be a fair trade either way. Fuqua is great for Healthcare. UNC is as well but Fuqua is much stronger across the board as well as Med School and Undergrad. I have heard positive things about UNC IB recruiting. It seems they have been gnawing at Darden's recruiters. Johnson is strong in IB but that does not mean everyone goes to IB. There is still a stiff competition though I am sure your consulting experience helps and having a strong brand would give some comfort for an interview invite. I am not so very concerned about the $35K. It is a nice add-on and while it may seem like it is 50% of your cost, it is actually much less. You will spend $40K/year on living expenses during business school (or about that amount) so technically the scholarship impact is 30% at that point. If you take the opportunity cost of not earning an income in 2 years, that dilutes the scholarship even further down to perhaps 20% or less. A typical sign on bonus may be $60K these days.... Nothing to skip or miss but sometimes when we put things into perspective, they look different. I would probably go above and beyond in your job trying to talk your boss into even the tiniest promotion to get off the Kellogg WL. That's a clearer choice. Otherwise, I can see going with Johnson or UNC, frankly. If I had to put the deposit down waiting for one of the other WL's which would be at full price, I would probably put down for Johnson since you are looking for access to Finance firms rather than Medical where I feel UNC is stronger than Johnson

boston619 · Answer

Hi  bb

Thank you for the reply, this is helpful information & aligns with my thinking. I think I'm leaning towards Johnson because of your points related to access to finance firms as opposed to medical ones.

Unfortunately while I'm expecting to be promoted during our next standardized promotion cycle, this doesn't take effect until July 1 which I'm afraid would be too late for the waitlist decision. Do you have any recommendations for additional information to send to admissions or ways to improve my chances of getting off the waitlist? As you mentioned, Kellogg would be my #1 and Fuqua would be my #2 if I were to get off of either those waitlists.

Thanks for your help!

bb · Answer

That makes sense. There are a few things that impact a waitlist.

The waitlist is basically if somebody declined the offer. Also, since we are pre-round two, there are some round to candidates who may push it down the waitlist. Ultimately there are certain characteristics and sides to applicants and business schools want to fill up classes with diverse students. Someone may be on the waitlist and the only way for them to get off is for another applicants to decline and if they never declined, no matter what you send, your chances are going to be zero. On the other hand, if someone does decline you want to be the first one on the list to get in. I guess just like the upgrade list with the airlines years ago when we used to fly 😬 if the first class is sold out, no matter what status you have, you’ll never get the upgrade but at the same time, it’s rare for it to be sold out so it’s helpful to be at the top of the list.

In terms of what you can materially do and the reason I was explaining this, is because it is possible to do a lot and get no progress whatsoever so it doesn’t mean you’ll necessarily succeed but you want to maximize your chances.

Sometimes, one can be on a wait list because if profile features, such as GMAT score or GPA and sometimes retaking the GMAT may move one up or convince the AdCom to pick them.

Sometimes it may be non-quantitative element and that is uncertainty about employability. I’m sure there’s no doubt that she will find a job after business school, you can always go into consulting again but you can already going to consulting today and that is not why you’re getting an MBA. So if the path you charted for yourself with PE which is historically very hard to get into and you don’t have any financial experience, that can be held against you. I’m not sure if I’m explaining this correctly but basically if you have a pretty aggressive goal, admissions does not like it because you’re setting high expectations and it’ll be hard for them to meet those expectations and potentially they will have an unhappy alum. I know, you would think that the more aggressive the career plans the The better but in applications, it is actually the opposite. The more conservative your goals and aspirations, the better are your chances. One way to address your aggressive recruiting aspirations, is to try and locate people who have done something like this and who have achieved the same goal and basically say that it will be fairly straightforward for you to make the switch. To do this, you could talk to some of the Kellogg alarms or perhaps secure some kind of an internship in a target company like a pre-MBA internship or some other connection that would make you almost like a slam dunk so to speak. In this case you’re deliverable would be a letter to the admissions that would basically say in a very brief format since they don’t want to read anything along that you’ve talked to three different alums and you’ve connected with several PE firms and spoken to them about internship and full-time recruiting and you would drop names all over the place and that you really need to have the MBA to transition. Basically you would go as far as find a job and say that it’s yours and all you need is just a stamp on your résumé that says you got an MBA.

Since we don’t know the reason for your waitlist, it would be helpful to try to get a bit more information from your waitlist manager and see which direction you need to pursue. Is that quantifiable things such as a GMAT score, is that qualitative such as promotion or letters of reference or letters of support or may be taking PE courses online, or is it more about your career path.

It is potentially a lot of work if you try to pursue all three. I would say it’s going to be very challenging to pursue all three so getting some clarity would be helpful. Maybe you can figure out how to finagle that information out of them 😬🤷‍♂️

PS. I dictated this whole thing on my phone so I hope it turns out OK. I apologize for strange typos 🥴

Posted from my mobile device

boston619 · Answer

Hi  bb  - thank you for the detailed reply.

Your points make sense & in general I've heard it's very difficult to get off the waitlist unfortunately. With that being said, I'll still try and submit an update to admissions outlining any changes to my job or various people that I've spoken with that highlight my interest in the program & long term employment options. Thanks again!

bb · Answer

Good luck! 
Try to show up for school events too (just login so your name is on the list of people who have attended.)
It is just doing it for the motions sake but who cares. It is super easy and you may even learn something....

bb · Answer

Update: the OP chose Kellogg (admitted off the WL)

👍👍👍

Posted from my mobile device

Cornell (Johnson) vs UNC (Kenan-Flagler)

Based on all this information, which should I choose Cornell or UNC?

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