S&T or HF

Question

So I hear the great IB and MC debates happening.

I'm really not interested in corporate finance, and I have an IB background, trying to leave that and get to S&T or HF.

1. What is the climate like at schools like Booth for S&T positions? When you say "IB" do you actually mean working for an investment bank, but that could mean working for the industrials-corp-fin group or as a blanket term that technically can cover treasuries trading?

I know MBA isn't necessarily the direct path to a trading job as it is for Corp Fin, but a lot of MBA's find their way to trading desks, regardless.

2. What is the climate like for HF recruiting? are HF's in the same universe of recruitment as MF?

Thanks!

cougarblue · Answer

For S&T it's definitely a smaller number of spots available, but less folks want to do it. I would say it's easier to get into IBD (corp fin) vs. S&T. S&T is probably on par with IM recruiting in terms of competitiveness. HF are one-off, hard to really generalize about, but yes, they are in the same universe as MF and is mostly the same group of people interested in both. Some people choose MF or Asset Mgrs over other HF offers.

bonethugnhominy · Answer

The thing that worries me that I don't know whether S&T will exist, in 10-20 years, as it does today. As it stands, I am looking to join a BB trading desk post-MBA, but will certainly do some extensive research before deciding for sure.

Shawshank · Answer

wharton and chicago are the best MBA programs for S&T. they have the strongest pure finance programs and are respected by the bulge bracket trading desks. it's still tough though; a former co-worker is at booth, and he said recruiting was very competitive.

Getting into hedge funds or asset management is even tougher. Hedge funds like citadel, moore, SAC, york, davidson kempner, fortress,and asset management firms like blackrock, PIMCO, wellington, capital group, fidelity, state street, are all very tough to get into.

osbornecox · Answer

From what I can tell, certain big asset management shops have strong relationships with a small number of select business schools - Chicago Booth is definitely one of them, and seems to enjoy a few more than Columbia does.

Its numbers in S&T are less strong than I would've expected them to be, though out of all business schools, it sends the second-highest percentage of its graduates into that function.

As for hedge funds, I'm not sure that they're treated the same way as MFs are. MFs tend to be considered IM, whereas HFs often get placed in "alternative investments" in career reports. The reports will usually specify, though.

Congratulations to masscool and bonethugnhominy for getting into Booth!

Arbitrageur, does your friend have any insight into how many doors Booth opens for non-quants looking to get a trading or structuring role? It seems to be a different gig from sales, which is what's usually available to MBAs.

bonethugnhominy · Answer

Thanks, Osborne! I'm definitely excited about the possibilities @ Booth, but I'm still not 100% which area of finance I am going to pursue.

Is PE a total pipedream with no IB/PE experience and sub-750 GMAT score? Would my CFA charter be of any use?

Between IBD and Sec Div, I'm leaning towards trading, but still am not totally sure. The reason for this is that I've never been on the IBD side, and thus have no real point of comparison.

osbornecox · Answer

Not being an expert at this, I think that the chances of going into PE directly are slim. I know a guy who did it relatively quickly, but his deal was this: pre-MBA, he was an entrepreneur (well-connected). Then he went to Chicago/CBS/Kellogg, and did one year of bulge-bracket investment banking. He then leveraged his contact list (not American, he went back to his region of origin) to get into a PE firm after only one year of banking.

I suppose that if your pre-MBA experience is suitable, and you already have connections, then you may, if you're good enough at the networking, manage to find a position with a summer internship in IBD, or only a year or two of IBD full-time. A guy I know who runs a PE fund told me to "get in touch" once I figure out what I want to do next, so I suppose he values my current skill-set, though I don't know if me-current-plus-MBA is enough for him to want to hire me.

Does that give you (sample size of one!) at least something to go by?

bonethugnhominy · Answer

Thanks for the input. I guess I can realistically rule out PE (though, I'll try to the extent that it doesn't interfere with other recruiting).

jerukpopo · Answer

I am a career switcher (non-finance related) interested in breaking into the financial industry post b-school with my sights on a position in Trading. I would like to know which degree is better suited for landing an entry-level position in Trading, considering I do not have relevant work experience. Furthermore, I do not come from a quantitative background (Undergrad in liberal arts) and have no dreams of becoming a PhD quant, but remain hopeful that landing a traditional role as trader is still possible. My question is: Are Trading firms more likely to recruit from MsF/Ms.Financial Engineering or would they also be attracted to MBA grads?

An MBA education seems very general and better suited for CorpFin type IBD, but the MBA program attracts more recruiters so it could offset a lot of advantages a specialized MsF program has to offer. 
If you are lucky enough to land a role at a trading firm, is there any on-site training, or are you expected to be able to generate alpha straight away? Are MBA hires expected to know the ins and outs of trading upon prior to employment or is there a boot-camp of sorts before the "real work" begins?

I'm leaning towards doing an MBA due to the less stringent requirement for a quantitative background, while cross-enrolling in a few math courses on the side (from either the math or engineering department.)

My main concern is that traders need to have high-level math (by high-level I mean higher than a layperson, but perhaps not as high as the quants they work alongside with) as well as programming skills and an MBA education usually does not cover such topics, whereas a MsFinEng would.

Any help on this matter is appreciated!

3underscore · Answer

The general fear / lack of interest in math really makes me doubt your chances of trading.

MBAs can get into trading, but a lot of it is about fit with the business. MsF might have better probabilities  if  you get in, but I am not so sure.

S&T or HF

Prep Toolkit

Top 5 GMAT Debrief Videos

615 to 715 in 15 Days (Ria's Strategies)

More than Quant/Verbal Abilities: Speed vs. Accuracy

745 with Only Self-Prep and GMAT Club

From 555 to 765: 210-point Improvement

Perfect 805 Score Debrief by Julia

My Rewards